Physical Kingdom Problems

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Dave L

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Physical Kingdom Problems

Jesus’ kingdom is spiritual. And this is a problem for the physical kingdom views of a Millennium. Where these say the kingdom will come before the end of the world and remain for 1000 years. Jesus says it is already here. (Luke 11:20). Paul says flesh and blood cannot inherit it (1 Corinthians 15:50). Jesus says it comes without observation (Luke 17:20). And John says only those born-again can enter it (John 3:5).

This means, if a millennial kingdom were to come after the resurrection and rapture, the only place scripture allows for it (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17), only saints in glorified bodies would populate it. (Since flesh and blood cannot inherit it). So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

Another problem would be fitting a millennium into this present evil world after Jesus already said his kingdom is not of this world. And a Millennium cannot be in the world to come. Because it is a perfect world, not having the sin and conflicts an earthly millennium has. Infants dying a hundred years old and cursed sinners a hundred years old and so on. And beside these two worlds or ages, scripture mentions no other.

Also, with a 1000-year millennium on earth, anyone would know the time of the end. And this is something only the Father knows. Some might argue an indefinite period of time remains after the 1000 years while Satan wreaks havoc on the church. But if this were the case, you must cram it all into earth’s last day. “For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ, the firstfruits; then when Christ comes, those who belong to him. Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, when he has brought to an end all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be eliminated is death.” (1 Corinthians 15:22–26)

So people would still know the time of the end. Because Paul says Jesus must reign until he destroys the last enemy – death. And this happens at the end of the world.
 
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Dave L

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might be important to distinguish the end of the world from the end of the earth, ppl usually conflate these i think
Both end of the age/world and the universe is the same event.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)
 

stunnedbygrace

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This means, if a millennial kingdom were to come after the resurrection and rapture, the only place scripture allows for it (1 Thessalonians 4:16–17), only saints in glorified bodies would populate it. (Since flesh and blood cannot inherit it). So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

it says the rest will not be brought to life until after the 1000 years doesn't it?
 
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Dave L

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it says the rest will not be brought to life until after the 1000 years doesn't it?
The first resurrection begins with the new birth to be completed on the last day in the resurrection of the body. On that same day the wicked come to life in the resurrection of the damned. Please note the two resurrections:
“Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:28–29)
 

stunnedbygrace

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Yes, well that would be those who di ed after the gathering and those who were not brought to life again u nti l after the 1000 years, as the verse says the rest are not brought to life until after the 1000 years.

you have to do something with the verse that has some coming to life and some others coming to life after 1000 years. To me, this puts a 1000 year gap of time between the 2 reapings spoken of in Rev.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Jesus, in hindsight, did give us a precedent for some scripture that seems to flow together to have a gap of time between them, when He got up to read isaiah. I suppose it could be argued (anything can be argued) that Isaiah is the only place in s rupture where there is a gap, but it would be a somewhat silly argument. The precedent is obviously there, so it seems to me that if we have some confusion (and honestly, who doesnt?!) Then we should be looking for a possible gap to reconcile the confusion.
 
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Dave L

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Yes, well that would be those who di ed after the gathering and those who were not brought to life again u nti l after the 1000 years, as the verse says the rest are not brought to life until after the 1000 years.

you have to do something with the verse that has some coming to life and some others coming to life after 1000 years. To me, this puts a 1000 year gap of time between the 2 reapings spoken of in Rev.
Not if you recognize the new birth as the first resurrection completed on the last day in the bodily resurrection.
 

ScottA

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So people would still know the time of the end. Because Paul says Jesus must reign until he destroys the last enemy – death. And this happens at the end of the world.
And go figure...this happens when you die, "each in his own order."
 

stunnedbygrace

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Not if you recognize the new birth as the first resurrection completed on the last day in the bodily resurrection.

Yes, that's one way to view it. You have to make the 1000 years to not be literal in any sense, but yes, it's one way to view it. The passages about the thousand years don t read to me as so apocalyptic as horses with heads like lions, but more literal, but yes, you could view it as a thousand years not being literal.
 
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Dave L

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Yes, that's one way to view it. You have to make the 1000 years to not be literal in any sense, but yes, it's one way to view it. The passages about the thousand years don t read to me as so apocalyptic as horses with heads like lions, but more literal, but yes, you could view it as a thousand years not being literal.
Thanks for your interest in this. Here's how I understand the passage.

The angel = Greek for messenger

the chain = the message (gospel) The gospel sent to all nations keeps him from deceiving the nations.

the 1000 years = Satan bound. The saints rule over him. the 1000 years end = Satan loosed.

Note the 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end and he is loosed.

Satan loosed = the Post Christian era (we now live in) the gospel message falls on deaf ears, the nations deceived and the world assails the Church from all quarters ushering in the end.

“Jesus said, “This voice has not come for my benefit but for yours. Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be driven out.” (John 12:30–31)

So in essence, Revelation 20 is a panorama of the entire New Covenant era. Not a physical kingdom of the future.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I think it could be some of both...a panorama of shadows and a future fulfillment.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I agree with you though Dave that the 1000 years is not the kingdom in the sense of His eternal kingdom and rule. I think the eternal kingdom will have no death at all and no disputes. The 1000 years sounds greatly improved, with men outliving the work of their hands, (living longer than the houses they build is how I imagine that), and disputes it says, but no war because Jesus will mediate the disputes. That obviously can't be our eternity because death still does remain. I think it says, anyone dying before 100 will be thought accursed and maybe I remember an 100 yr old being considered a youth. Would have to look that up.
 
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Dave L

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I agree with you though Dave that the 1000 years is not the kingdom in the sense of His eternal kingdom and rule. I think the eternal kingdom will have no death at all and no disputes. The 1000 years sounds greatly improved, with men outliving the work of their hands, (living longer than the houses they build is how I imagine that), and disputes it says, but no war because Jesus will mediate the disputes. That obviously can't be our eternity because death still does remain. I think it says, anyone dying before 100 will be thought accursed and maybe I remember an 100 yr old being considered a youth. Would have to look that up.
It is happening now. But only the born again can see it John 3:3. We are seated in the kingdom in heaven as members of Christ's body Ephesians 2:6. Where we reign with Christ (Revelation 20). And the golden age prophecies are now fulfilled in heaven and on earth. With the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ) taking place in the resurrection (restoration) on the last day in the New Heavens and Earth.