Physical Kingdom Problems

[stunnedbygrace]

"ima tell you the truth" is not code for "discussion" in my experience

so much for the Body of Christ i guess huh, looks like He is literally gonna need it back dunnit?
lol

He already had it resurrected. He still has it! It's amazing to me to wonder what was so diff about His resurrected body that a woman who knew Him mistook Him for some garden er...

 

[bbyrd009]

Sounds li ke a blockbuster movie.☺

or at least a rerun, ya
i was raised on that movie lol, i guess we're all disaster junkies now

 

[bbyrd009]

He already had it resurrected. He still has it! It's amazing to me to wonder what was so diff about His resurrected body that a woman who knew Him mistook Him for some garden er...

you know Joseph of A came asking for Jesus' Body, but he got His carcass instead
the Body of Christ is...not where you think it is, wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

i hear ya. I just believe there are 2 comings. Once in the air, and once when all will see Him.

we will find out one glorious day.☺

sing it with me

When we aaallll get to heaven...

 

[Enoch111]

just don't get mad. It's a discussion. ☺

Is getting *even* OK? Just kidding.

 

[Enoch111]

you know Joseph of A came asking for Jesus' Body, but he got His carcass instead

Since the Bible does not say this, you are just making it up. But it is not something to joke about.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

sing it with me

When we aaallll get to heaven...

Um...no one wants to hear me sing.
trust me on it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Is getting *even* OK? Just kidding.

according to the useless conversation/manner of life we were taught, yeah, it's ok to get even. As long as you do it passive-aggressively so no one catches you cheating in deceit about your heart intent.

 

[friend of]

So when the 1000 years would end with Satan loosed, only myriads of glorified saints would avail themselves to form Gog and Magog and attack the rest of the glorified saints.

You totally lost me.

 

[ScottA]

Here's some things I found interesting relating to the millennial reign:

Satan will be bound in the bottomless pit for 1000 years. During which time Jesus will rule on earth with the resurrected martyred saints who were killed for refusing to worship the image of the beast and take his mark. At the end of the 1000 years, Satan will be released from the bottomless pit and will go forth to deceive the nations Gog/Magog. (Rev 20). So we have the beast system in power before the millennial reign, then it is removed for the duration of the millennial reign when Satan is in the bottomless pit, then we also have Satan re-emerging from the bottomless pit after the millennial reign to restore his beast system.

In Rev 17 we read "The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is not, and yet is." Again we see that there will be a time when the beast is in power, but then it will not be in power, and then it will re-emerge after ascending from the bottomless pit. If we look at this in the light of what we have read in Revelation 20, we can place the opening of the bottomless pit at the end of the millennial reign. Therefore both scriptures are in agreement: the beast will be in power (before the millennial), not in power (during the millennial), and will re-emerge (after the millennial).

In Revelation 13 we read "And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast. So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” We see here once again that the beast will be in power, then it will be fatally wounded, but it will then it will be restored. We can take what we have learned from Revelation 20 and 17 to understand that the beast will be in power (before the millennial), it will be fatally wounded (for the duration of the millennial), and it will be healed/revived (after the millennial). This makes it easier to understand the reaction of the world at the time of the restoration of the beast system. If the world sees the beast's kingdom restored to power seemingly overcoming Jesus' kingdom, people would be amazed. They would marvel and ask such questions as, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?".

-----------------------------

We can now divide the three timeframes from the above scriptures:

The Beast kingdom followed by The Millennial Reign Of Christ followed by The Beast Which Ascends From The Bottomless Pit

-----------------------------

Now we have divided the three timeframes, we can piece together a bit more of the puzzle:

We read in Revelation 9, Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them. So we find out here that the sounding of the fifth trumpet will initiate the opening of the bottomless pit. We know that the opening of the bottomless pit will be at the end of the millennial reign. Therefore, the events that take place from the fifth trumpet to the seventh trumpet must be post-millennial reign; during the time of the beast that ascends from the bottomless pit.

We are given confirmation of this in Revelation 11, Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. When they finish their testimony, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against them, overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. Then those from the peoples, tribes, tongues, and nations will see their dead bodies three-and-a-half days, and not allow their dead bodies to be put into graves. And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them, make merry, and send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth. We see here that it is the "beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit" who kills the two witnesses. Therefore this places the time of the two witnesses after the millennial reign, confirming that the events of the fifth trumpet to the seventh trumpet take place after the millennial reign.

I will stop here for now, I hope this blesses someone.

You are attempting to interpret God's explanation of kingdom events in worldly terms...which doesn't translate accurately. In other words, the metaphoric language does not work both ways, and that is why the apostle Paul told us that scripture needs to "be discerned spiritually" rather than grammatically, and counseled to "rightly divide the word" accordingly.

So, the "thousand years" is not a thousand earth years, it is "a time" as in "a time, times, and half a time." Which again, is not referring to years. "A time" refers to the allotted time for kingdom events (which do not take any time at all) to be realized by those who experience them in the world - but it's not a thousand years, etc..

 

[Helen]

just don't get mad. It's a discussion. ☺

Very wise words...Amen.

 

[ScottA]

When God says a thousand years, He means a thousand years. I'm sorry but making stuff up and calling it spiritual discernment is wrong. If something is spiritually discerned you can then rightly divide scripture which is what I just presented to you. Just as the physical return of Jesus can be proven by scripture through spiritual discernment.

No...the only thing that you are proving is your admitted interpretation of the written word. The only proof will be in the end. But if you think you are spiritually discerning what Christ said will not occur - it is not the spirit of God.

 

[Harvest 1874]

might be important to distinguish the end of the world from the end of the earth, ppl usually conflate these i think

There is no end of the earth (that is the physical globe itself), “the earth abides forever” (Eccl 1:4).

“For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.” Isa 45:18

“The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.” Psa 115:16

“Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool…” Isa 66:1 (See Matt 5:35 also)

“…I will make the place of my feet glorious.” Isa 60:13 (Speaking of the Kingdom to come when the Lord shall establish righteousness throughout the earth.)

“Thy kingdom come ON EARTH even as it is in heaven”

“Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endures throughout all generations.” Psa 145:13

Nevertheless the scriptures inform us that there will be an end to the present world that is the present age, this “present evil world (or age)”

It is this “earth” (the present social order or structure as is now prevalent), which the Apostle Peter refers to in 2 Pet 3:10 which is to be burned up (symbolically) in the great time of trouble, not the physical earth itself.

 

[Enoch111]

so much for the Body of Christ i guess huh, looks like He is literally gonna need it back dunnit?

He already has it, if you mean His glorified spiritual body. But "Body" is also a spiritual metaphor for all those who are in Christ. The Church is the Body of Christ, who is the Head of the Church.

 

[Dave L]

You totally lost me.

Here's how it works out. Those who believe in a physical kingdom think Christ will rule the physical nations from Jerusalem. But Jesus says his kingdom is spiritual and not of this world. So if Jesus should reign from physical Jerusalem, there would not be any people to rule over but saints in glorified bodies who would have been taken up in the rapture. Because flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of God.

 

[Dave L]

18time to destroy those who destroy the earth

doesn't make too much sense in that context wadr, rabbi

I think we will understand more after living through it. Most prophecy is obscure until after fulfillment.

 

[Dave L]

i hear ya. I just believe there are 2 comings. Once in the air, and once when all will see Him.

we will find out one glorious day.☺

I think we will know more after living through it. Most prophecy remains obscure until after fulfillment. I see Jesus returning with the saints in heaven to complete their resurrection along with the rapture of the living saints at that time. With the resurrection of the wicked dead and judgement of the wicked living being sent to hell through the conflagration of the universe. Followed by Jesus creating the new heavens and earth where heaven and earth become one.

 

[bbyrd009]

Since the Bible does not say this, you are just making it up. But it is not something to joke about.

i don't really joke too much Enoch, i'll let you know when i am joking ok

 

[bbyrd009]

Just as the physical return of Jesus can be proven by scripture through spiritual discernment.

i read the same vv you do, and i gotta admit to the dialectic nature of the authorship, meaning i agree that could be possible, however imo the argument falls apart after considering all the variables. That most believers want Jesus to "return" more than anything else is one of them, but there are several others. And of course the authors could anticipate that we would go search for "Jesus returning" or "Christ returning" and would author accordingly

 

[bbyrd009]

@ScottA

Scott, brother? What reaction are you looking for? On my thread you felt obliged to curse me and accuse me of blaspheming the Holy Spirit (the unforgivable sin), all for sharing my series on the physical return of Jesus. Now you are here saying that my spiritual discernment is not of God. Should I kill myself now, I mean there is no salvation for me now that I'm guilty of the unforgivable sin, right?

Let's just say that I am wrong about everything. Maybe I came to this site as a new Christian, well meaning, but from your point of view in need of guidance. What effect do you think your words would have had upon me, as new Christian? Your words could have turned me away from Christ! Your words could have made me feel beyond the reach of grace!

I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (Ephesians 4:1-6).

we are on a forum with very limited means of expression, and a new seeker would not be trying to teach what they did not understand, their language would be different, etc. i mean nothing wrong with postulating, ok, go nuts, the truth is way stranger than fiction, but our syntax is what will most often reveal our heart i guess