Preterism, What is it? Is it truth?

[Rocky Wiley]

My son ask me that question 20 years ago and I felt I had to give him truth. In order to do that I had to dig deep into God's word.
After several months of study I was able to tell him. Yes, it is true, not a salvation issue just a correct understanding of bible prophecy.

 

[101G]

My son ask me that question 20 years ago and I felt I had to give him truth. In order to do that I had to dig deep into God's word.
After several months of study I was able to tell him. Yes, it is true, not a salvation issue just a correct understanding of bible prophecy.

Like in WHAT bible prophecy?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Like in WHAT bible prophecy?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Signs of the End of the Age
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The Abomination of Desolation
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

 

[Enoch111]

Yes, it is true, not a salvation issue just a correct understanding of bible prophecy.

A large number of Christians would STRONGLY DISAGREE.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

A large number of Christians would STRONGLY DISAGREE.

A large number of Christians do not study God's Word, they just take the word of the teacher. The only way one knows if the teacher is correct is to study for yourself.

I don't agree with most teachers, but that doesn't them bad, it just makes them wrong.

 

[Renniks]

Partial or full? Preterism makes a lot of sense of some Bible verses that otherwise are hard to understand.
I think it was CS Lewis that flat out said that Jesus was mistaken when he said that it would happen in this generation. Of course Lewis was incorrect. All the other theories of end times have to reinterpret that statement in very unlikely ways.

 

[101G]

Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Signs of the End of the Age
Mat 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Mat 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Mat 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
Mat 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mat 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
The Abomination of Desolation
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mat 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Mat 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Mat 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Mat 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Mat 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Mat 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Mat 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

AND? the temple had been destroyed before. as before just an end of that period, not not the world. and two you're a Johnny come lately because the Son of man had already came at Pentecost.

lets prove it out.
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

well did the KINGDOM come before some standing there died? yes, on the Day of Pentecoast. because he, the Son of man came in Spirit, (who is Spirit in Glorification). so the destruction of the temple in AD 70 is just an end to the daily sacarfice of the Jews.

so the destruction of the temple is not the end of "THIS" world, no of this or that Generation, but only in that period of time.

for the coming of the Lord in apperance is yet to happen... do you understand of the the Lord "two Fold Return?"... guess not.

see, those standing there whom the Lord Jesus was speaking to didn't taste death before he came into his Kingdom/Glorification of the Spirit... the KOG. ...... BINGO. so your assessment has been reproved.

see, the KOG came on Pentecost to all the world... YIKES, listen, Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

see, the OLD Temple had to be done away with because the NEW Temple is establish.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Rocky Wiley]

AND? the temple had been destroyed before. as before just an end of that period, not not the world. and two you're a Johnny come lately because the Son of man had already came at Pentecost.

lets prove it out.
Matthew 16:28 "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom."

well did the KINGDOM come before some standing there died? yes, on the Day of Pentecoast. because he, the Son of man came in Spirit, (who is Spirit in Glorification). so the destruction of the temple in AD 70 is just an end to the daily sacarfice of the Jews.

so the destruction of the temple is not the end of "THIS" world, no of this or that Generation, but only in that period of time.

for the coming of the Lord in apperance is yet to happen... do you understand of the the Lord "two Fold Return?"... guess not.

see, those standing there whom the Lord Jesus was speaking to didn't taste death before he came into his Kingdom/Glorification of the Spirit... the KOG. ...... BINGO. so your assessment has been reproved.

see, the KOG came on Pentecost to all the world... YIKES, listen, Acts 2:39 "For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

see, the OLD Temple had to be done away with because the NEW Temple is establish.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I don't disagree with that!

 

[Keraz]

What is prophesied to happen in the OT, the NT and especially from Revelation 6:12 to the end, simply has not happened yet.

Preterism is just a means of avoiding the unpalatable truth that we who are alive now, may have to face dramatic and challenging times. It leaves those who believe it, also those who fondly imagine they will be raptured out of it, in the dark. 1 Thess 5:4-6
Clueless about what God has planned for the world and for His faithful people.

 

[Renniks]

What is prophesied to happen in the OT, the NT and especially from Revelation 6:12 to the end, simply has not happened yet.

Preterism is just a means of avoiding the unpalatable truth that we who are alive now, may have to face dramatic and challenging times. It leaves those who believe it, also those who fondly imagine they will be raptured out of it, in the dark. 1 Thess 5:4-6
Clueless about what God has planned for the world and for His faithful people.

Or perhaps those who believe we will experience the tribulation are too focused on their own time and miss how well these prophecies line up with events in the past.
Many generations face very challenging times. We aren't special in that regard.

 

[Randy Kluth]

My son ask me that question 20 years ago and I felt I had to give him truth. In order to do that I had to dig deep into God's word.
After several months of study I was able to tell him. Yes, it is true, not a salvation issue just a correct understanding of bible prophecy.

I think Preterism is wrong, but entered into the equation because so many were getting it wrong with an over-emphasis on Futurism. Futurism tends to interpret everything in the Bible in light of prophecy being fulfilled today. It is scarcely understood that a huge number of biblical prophecies have already been fulfilled.

A most important historically fulfilled prophecy is the 70th Week of Daniel, along with the Abomination of Desolation. This is made explicitly clear in Luke 21, and yet we have Futurists all over the place claiming it's insane to believe that the AoD was historically fulfilled, or that Daniel's 70th Week was fulfilled in history.

And yet, the evidence is more than adequate for one to place his or her trust in these historically fulfilled prophecies. An over emphasis on Futurism goes against Jesus' warning not to get too excited over speculating about future prophecies. It is for God to set the times and the seasons. We are to rest in God's cause, and not be about our own zeal and our own cause. Zealotry and sensationalism leads to self-glorification, and not glorification of the Lord. We should let the Lord Himself fulfill prophecy, and not try to be seers for our age.

Where Preterism gets it wrong is the reverse of Futurism. It sees everything as historically fulfilled. That isn't true either. Even part of the Olivet Discourse remains future, such as the fulfillment of the Great Commission, the continuing persecution of believers, not just in Israel, but also in other countries, and the end of Jewish Punishment when their Diaspora comes to an end at the return of Christ.

As well, the book of Revelation doesn't just speak of the Roman Empire in the 1st Christian generation as the Antichrist. The Antichrist comes in 3.5 years at the end of the present age, as indicated in Dan 7 and in 2 Thes 2. Balance is the key to prophetic interpretation. Take things in context, and not try to create an overriding system, super-imposed on all prophecy.

 

[Keraz]

Or perhaps those who believe we will experience the tribulation are too focused on their own time and miss how well these prophecies line up with events in the past.
Many generations face very challenging times. We aren't special in that regard.

My main reason for believing we are now at the edge of dramatic events, is the fact of the 7000 year decreed time of mankind.
The given times of the Patriarchs and the kings prove there was 4000 years to the first Advent of Jesus, then another 2000 - which are nearly over and finally the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.
Also, of course; is the factors of world over population, increasing natural disasters, but mainly: the burning fuse of the Middle East is getting very short! Iran WILL try to 'wipe Israel off the map'.
The world will be a different place when the Lord destroys them all. Ezekiel 7:14, Isaiah 24, Zephaniah 1:1-18, Revelation 6:12-17

 

[Rocky Wiley]

I think Preterism is wrong, but entered into the equation because so many were getting it wrong with an over-emphasis on Futurism. Futurism tends to interpret everything in the Bible in light of prophecy being fulfilled today. It is scarcely understood that a huge number of biblical prophecies have already been fulfilled.

A most important historically fulfilled prophecy is the 70th Week of Daniel, along with the Abomination of Desolation. This is made explicitly clear in Luke 21, and yet we have Futurists all over the place claiming it's insane to believe that the AoD was historically fulfilled, or that Daniel's 70th Week was fulfilled in history.

And yet, the evidence is more than adequate for one to place his or her trust in these historically fulfilled prophecies. An over emphasis on Futurism goes against Jesus' warning not to get too excited over speculating about future prophecies. It is for God to set the times and the seasons. We are to rest in God's cause, and not be about our own zeal and our own cause. Zealotry and sensationalism leads to self-glorification, and not glorification of the Lord. We should let the Lord Himself fulfill prophecy, and not try to be seers for our age.

Where Preterism gets it wrong is the reverse of Futurism. It sees everything as historically fulfilled. That isn't true either. Even part of the Olivet Discourse remains future, such as the fulfillment of the Great Commission, the continuing persecution of believers, not just in Israel, but also in other countries, and the end of Jewish Punishment when their Diaspora comes to an end at the return of Christ.

As well, the book of Revelation doesn't just speak of the Roman Empire in the 1st Christian generation as the Antichrist. The Antichrist comes in 3.5 years at the end of the present age, as indicated in Dan 7 and in 2 Thes 2. Balance is the key to prophetic interpretation. Take things in context, and not try to create an overriding system, super-imposed on all prophecy.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Where people error is by not understanding to whom the bible is written.
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth
Gal 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
etc, etc
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
It is written for us but not to us.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I think Preterism is wrong, but entered into the equation because so many were getting it wrong with an over-emphasis on Futurism. Futurism tends to interpret everything in the Bible in light of prophecy being fulfilled today. It is scarcely understood that a huge number of biblical prophecies have already been fulfilled.

A most important historically fulfilled prophecy is the 70th Week of Daniel, along with the Abomination of Desolation. This is made explicitly clear in Luke 21, and yet we have Futurists all over the place claiming it's insane to believe that the AoD was historically fulfilled, or that Daniel's 70th Week was fulfilled in history.

And yet, the evidence is more than adequate for one to place his or her trust in these historically fulfilled prophecies. An over emphasis on Futurism goes against Jesus' warning not to get too excited over speculating about future prophecies. It is for God to set the times and the seasons. We are to rest in God's cause, and not be about our own zeal and our own cause. Zealotry and sensationalism leads to self-glorification, and not glorification of the Lord. We should let the Lord Himself fulfill prophecy, and not try to be seers for our age.

Where Preterism gets it wrong is the reverse of Futurism. It sees everything as historically fulfilled. That isn't true either. Even part of the Olivet Discourse remains future, such as the fulfillment of the Great Commission, the continuing persecution of believers, not just in Israel, but also in other countries, and the end of Jewish Punishment when their Diaspora comes to an end at the return of Christ.

As well, the book of Revelation doesn't just speak of the Roman Empire in the 1st Christian generation as the Antichrist. The Antichrist comes in 3.5 years at the end of the present age, as indicated in Dan 7 and in 2 Thes 2. Balance is the key to prophetic interpretation. Take things in context, and not try to create an overriding system, super-imposed on all prophecy.

Absolutely, Randy. I was reading one member who posts a lot of teaching threads say yesterday that he avoids discussing prophecy because it's just a "rabbit hole." I think it is because so few take everything into consideration here like you are saying that they would think that.

I can make FULL sense of Biblical prophecy when viewing it through the lens that God often spoke prophesies at a time when they LOOKED like they were on the way to fulfillment, so that those receiving them would hold to them tightly and preserve them for future generations. But the ultimate fulfillment was actually set many centuries and even Millenia into the future. This is how He always operated, and still does so today.

Understanding prophecy is indeed a heady issue, but not incomprehensible, and since the promise in Revelations was that "blessed is he who reads this book," we would be blessed to do so. I find the accurate knowledge of prophecy to be the foundation of my entire world view, and my walk with God.

 

[Enoch111]

It is written for us but not to us.

Not necessarily. While some things would apply to the churches of the first century other things would apply to churches until the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints.

Preterism is TOTAL NONSENSE since it ignores facts. Let's take just one example -- the Great Tribulation. The Lord made it perfectly clear that it would be totally unique event, such as has never been nor ever will be. And that would be followed by the shaking of the heavens and the earth, which would result is the disappearance of the heavenly bodies ("and the heavens departed as a scroll") and the total displacement of mountains and islands (as noted in the Olivet Discourse). And that has definitely not happened.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev 6:12-14)

Just this one passage shows the absurdity of Preterism. But you will continue to defend that nonsense.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Not necessarily. While some things would apply to the churches of the first century other things would apply to churches until the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints.

Preterism is TOTAL NONSENSE since it ignores facts. Let's take just one example -- the Great Tribulation. The Lord made it perfectly clear that it would be totally unique event, such as has never been nor ever will be. And that would be followed by the shaking of the heavens and the earth, which would result is the disappearance of the heavenly bodies ("and the heavens departed as a scroll") and the total displacement of mountains and islands (as noted in the Olivet Discourse). And that has definitely not happened.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev 6:12-14)

Just this one passage shows the absurdity of Preterism. But you will continue to defend that nonsense.

Here are scriptures that all can understand!

Mat_13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Enemy is the devil, tares are his children.

Mat_13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat_13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat_13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat_13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
The children of the devil will be burned.
Mat_13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat_13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat_13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age).

These scriptures are much easier to understand.

 

[Timtofly]

Where people error is by not understanding to whom the bible is written.
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth
Gal 1:2 And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia
Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
etc, etc
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:
It is written for us but not to us.

Why are you racially segregating the church? The church is one body, neither Jew nor Gentile of any ethnicity. The NT was written to 1991 years of the church.

It was written to congregations for particular reasons, but not because only a certain ethnicity was to receive that message. Naming the group is just a physical address for that message. It was not written just to them, or it would have not made it into God's Word at all.

 

[Renniks]

Not necessarily. While some things would apply to the churches of the first century other things would apply to churches until the Resurrection/Rapture of the saints.

Preterism is TOTAL NONSENSE since it ignores facts. Let's take just one example -- the Great Tribulation. The Lord made it perfectly clear that it would be totally unique event, such as has never been nor ever will be. And that would be followed by the shaking of the heavens and the earth, which would result is the disappearance of the heavenly bodies ("and the heavens departed as a scroll") and the total displacement of mountains and islands (as noted in the Olivet Discourse). And that has definitely not happened.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. (Rev 6:12-14)

Just this one passage shows the absurdity of Preterism. But you will continue to defend that nonsense.

Here's the thing: other old testament events were described using the same hyperbolic language.

Also the rapture is an idea taken from like one verse and only works if the verse is taking hyper literally.

The word “Rapture” is taken from the Latin Vulgate translation of 1
Thess. 4:16‐17, which says:
"For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of
command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the
trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are
alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds
to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord."



Before the 1800’s, every Protestant denomination agreed
that this event of being “caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air” would
occur simultaneously with the Second Coming of Christ.
So no separate rapture.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Partial or full? Preterism makes a lot of sense of some Bible verses that otherwise are hard to understand.
I think it was CS Lewis that flat out said that Jesus was mistaken when he said that it would happen in this generation. Of course Lewis was incorrect. All the other theories of end times have to reinterpret that statement in very unlikely ways.

What He said is when you see these signs [and He had given a few] then know THIS generation [the generation which see those signs] will not pass away until all is complete.