So, what are you suggesting by that?
If you consider reading the parable of the wheat and the tares, you will somehow have an idea with regards your concern there.
Tong
R0144
Saved Or Predestined ???
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If you consider reading the parable of the wheat and the tares, you will somehow have an idea with regards your concern there.
Tong
R0144
its not as simple as those whom believe and those who dont does it. Since not all christians know his voice, if it where so we would all be sheep and that is not the case
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Exactly! Jesus abides in us, and we in Him. The Old Testament provided laws because of the rampant sins and transgressions, but they had to be kept by the weak sin-ridden nature of the Jews/mankind. The New Covenant is the Spirit abiding in us, eradicating the sin in us, so that we can partake of the divine nature that doesn't sin. So it is not that we keep sinning and the blood of Jesus covers us making our sins hidden from the Father. No the desire to sin is completely taken away through the process of the new birth, making us new creatures in Christ. All the power comes from God through us. We are merely the vessels He abides in, and we in Him.
Mostly, i know of none that do not though many make those claims. And if you think its when you become "sinless" that you can see God, than you are placing the emphasis on you, its be cause He is sinless and perfect that we can stand before God.
2Co_5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
When we have faith in God, all is done.
It is finished, What part of finished do you not understand.
Mar_11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
mjrhealth : "Since not all christians know his voice,..."
If you are referring to genuine Christians, then all of them sure know His voice. They are all sheep. But if you are referring to all those who profess and claim to be Christians, as there are false Christians among them, then yes not all know His voice.
But the truth still remains, goats don't become sheep and sheep don't become goats. Wheat don't become tares and tares don't become wheat.
Tong
R0147
we where all unbelievers at one stage, we where not sheep back twhen, wherent we.??
As I said, goats don't become sheep. What the sheep were at one stage, are lost, and later will be found and all be brought home by the Good Shepherd. There will be one flock and one shepherd.
Tong
R0148
Nothing is impossible with God, no matter how much men limit Him.
The issue is not whether there are things impossible or not with respect to God mjrhealth. And no one is limiting God.
We read scriptures and learn what truth it says and we believe it.
Now, go ahead and read John 10 about the sheep and tell us if Jesus there teaches about the sheep becoming goat or goat becoming sheep. And go ahead and read Matthew 13 about the parable of the wheat and the tares and tell us if Jesus there teaches about the wheat becoming tares or the the tares becoming wheat. If those scriptures does not teach that, why insist or defend that they do, or why inject what it does not teach?
Tong
R0151
Yes than we tell God HE cannot do, God will do as God does His ways are not our ways.
Of course God will do what He will do according to His ways. And He revealed his ways in scriptures such as in John 10 by the metaphor of the sheep and in Matthew 13 by the parable of the wheat and the tares, that we may know them to His glory. And I believe them. You should too, as all Christians should.
Tong
R0152
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes, Jesus was sinless on earth. But you are wrong in your assumption that we can't be. Don't you know it is why He died for us? To take away our sin nature and give us freedom from sin through the infilling of His Spirit? Jesus was only the FIRST man to be sinless on earth.
Romans 8:29
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
"Glorified" has to do with letting us through His Spirit be partakers of His divine nature. It is not I who made up that we must be sinless in order to see God. I don't make up stuff. That is Hebrews 12:14 and Revelation 22:11.
Paul warned Timothy about the false doctrines about sin that were out there. 2 Timothy 3:6-7 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
What truth. There are many truths, but what Truth? And why when they hear the Truth, do they "resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith"?
Jesus told us in John 8:31-36.
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
That is the Truth that the Church has done away with starting 2000 years ago. It is why Jesus said, "and few there are that find it." Now the people in the Church find it hard to believe that Jesus came to make us free from sin and death. They've made up human carnal reasonings that the blood of Jesus covers our sin so the Father can't see it. Or another one is we receive imputed righteousness of Christ, but we ourselves will always sin in reality. Jude called it turning the grace of God into licentiousness. A license to sin. And even though 2 Peter 1:9 says only our old sins were forgiven when we came to Christ, the Church has twisted it to allow for present and future sins as well.
If you want to stop resisting the Truth, I will send you my testimony to start off with. Just let me know if you are open.
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Being free from sin and death does not stop one from sinning, its like some one paying your fines for you so that if you make a mistake you wont get wacked with one, Jesus paid for us so that when we mess up, and we all do, its all taken care of, That is what Grace is.
2Co_12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
And all I have to boast of is Christ. Look what He did.
Problem is what you see as the path and what He sees as the path are not quiet the same. As for resisting the truth Christ is the truth and in Him there is no lie.
Just because we dont all walk as "perfectly" as you do doesnt make us any less than you. We are all equal in Gods eyes and none shall, boast. PS i have read your testimony you sent it to me.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
And I say it again
God did not FORCE Pharaoh, or pull his strings like a robot.
Everything Pharoah did he did of his own free chosing
And I did not say that nor implied that God forced Pharaoh or "pulled his strings like a robot". That's a straw man EG.
I even told you this, and I quote "God raised him up exactly to become the person Pharaoh came to be, without forcing him in the entire process."
Isn't that amazing that God had raised Pharaoh to be the person he should be, who is perfect for the specific purpose of God in him, that is, God may show His power and that God's name may be declared in all the earth, without forcing him or "pulling his strings like a robot", or with Pharaoh doing everything of his own free choosing?
Truly, how unsearchable are the judgments of God and His ways past finding out!
Tong
R0154
You believe in individual election from before the world began, unless you have changed your position in the last day. Can you tell me why one is chosen and another isn't? If not, as far as you know, it's arbitrary.
No, I was once a tare and now I'm wheat. I once did not accept Christ and then I did. We don't remain what we were with no chance of changing. That's fatalism.
I believe in both corporate and individual election of God from before the world began. Election is based not from anything outside of God.
God's election is always with purpose. Why one is chosen, is for some purpose of God. Why one is chosen and the other is not, unless revealed in scriptures is beyond me. It is revealed in scriptures that God chose for service and also chose for salvation. It is also revealed in scriptures that God chose corporately a people (like Israel), and also chose individuals (like Pharaoh).
Tong
R0156
Well, I will have to respect your decision on that. I just think that by doing that, you are not taking the teachings of Jesus about the wheat and the tares as they are but have added to it, what you here believe.
So, are you now saying that you believe you were sown a wicked seed by the devil, the son of the wicked one? And then, the wicked seed that you were, the tares, you have grown to become a good seed, the wheat. Well, you can believe that, why not.
Tong
R0157
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
you will have to forgive me, You posts are so close to fatalistic thinking, I can not tell you apart.
Fatalists think exactly what I said is true. which is why I asked you
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