Scripture with Scripture

[Small Fish]

Well......I experienced the same thing.

If you can't beat them, ban them!

 

[Mjh29]

Thank you very much. They did not really like me on the "Christian Forum" so I hope it will go better here. Apparently I don't qualify as a Christian for not agreeing with the trinity doctrine.

The Trinity is a very vital doctrine, however, I believe in just talking about it and praying for one another rather than constant bashing and ridicule. You will find none of that from me, and if we ever did want to discuss this, we could do it over private message, to make sure the bashers dont take any swings. I pray that this forum does indeed work out for you!

Very true. As the old saying goes, "history repeats itself"

Indeed! I say this all the time! I mean, we practice sodomy and abortion openly in America. The last historic people group to do that was Rome... and history says they paid for their sin. How much longer will we allow people to have their truth. There is no "my" truth; there is the truth and there is falsehood, and this is never more true than when it come to essential doctrines of Scripture.

God Bless!

 

[Triumph1300]

Small Fish, Yes, that happened just recently when a local ministerial association decided to have a big community service in the park.

 

[Small Fish]

The Trinity is a very vital doctrine, however, I believe in just talking about it and praying for one another rather than constant bashing and ridicule. You will find none of that from me, and if we ever did want to discuss this, we could do it over private message, to make sure the bashers dont take any swings. I pray that this forum does indeed work out for you!

Thank you very much, I hope so too.

Indeed! I say this all the time! I mean, we practice sodomy and abortion openly in America. The last historic people group to do that was Rome... and history says they paid for their sin. How much longer will we allow people to have their truth. There is no "my" truth; there is the truth and there is falsehood, and this is never more true than when it come to essential doctrines of Scripture.

God Bless!

Yep, God don't change in His nature or ways. It's us humans that progress. Some in revelation in the knowledge of God but most in depravity and the deepness of Satan and apostasy.

Like it was in the days of Sodom and Like it was in the days of Noah. Luke 17. This should serve as a sign seeing that this is exactly where the world sits today but as the Scripture say, they are willingly ignorant!

 

[Small Fish]

Small Fish, Yes, that happened just recently when a local ministerial association decided to have a big community service in the park.

How did that play out?

 

[Episkopos]

I agree. This is why doctrine is so important. A team cant win if they are all running different plays, or if they cant even agree what the play is. We are the army of God, and as such we need to be a well oiled machine if we are to stand up to Satan and his worldly forces.

Do we have to agree upon EVERYTHING? Certainly not. However, there should be core beliefs that the church of God must needs hold to with the utmost steadfastness, to me they would be as follows:
1.) Jesus is God, the 2nd person of the Trinity, not created, but exsisting from eternity; born to the virgin Mary, and perfect and obedient unto death
2.) The Scriptures are the infallible word of God, and the tool of salvation.

Things of this sort must be vehemently defended.

I am thinking more along the lines of cooperation in what is received from God...revelation...prophecy..etc. We need to take an interest in the spiritual development of each person..with LESS emphasis on dogmatics. Some things can be learned along the way...why make somebody believe a creed religiously? We are not a religion...but we are entering into life and relationship.

If we concentrated on sound doctrine...we would have a lot less trouble with error and division. And I'm not talking about something that has a man's name on it. I mean a proper understanding of what constitutes the new life in Christ. What is the character of a Christian. How does love change what we think and do?....etc.

 

[Triumph1300]

How did that play out?

I don't know.
We did not go.

 

[Triumph1300]

I think these "park" services are just a big show off anyways.
No outreach as far as I understand.
Just a "hit and run" thing.

But I guess it's better than nothing.
To bad it can't be done in unity.

 

[Small Fish]

I think these "park" services are just a big show off anyways.
No outreach as far as I understand.
Just a "hit and run" thing.

But I guess it's better than nothing.
To bad it can't be done in unity.

I assume it would be about the same as the tent services here in our country. We have a tent pitched up (permanently) across the road from our church and I always get the idea that they are competing with us by the volume of the music they make. Well, I guess if that is what does it for them then who am I to complain?

 

[Triumph1300]

The "Unity Service" as it's called is held during a weekend of festivities in this particular town.
But it's not really in unity when some other churches are told not to participate and I am not talking about JW's and such.

We have a generation here that God is calling to rescue the book of Acts from becoming a history book.

 

[OzSpen]

You plainly said things they believe are not in the Bible. Does that not mean they must be, then, going somewhere else to just "pull them out of" wherever they wish? And I said we should not try to claim that since they get their ideas from what THEY feel are just as Scriptural writings God handed down as we think the particular ones we limit our selection to are. There is no human, "right or wrong" to it... that is STRICTLY to be something we cannot assume to take out of God's hands, as though WE are the ones to do the deciding for them.

Paul's warning to Titus (and to us) was:

For there are many rebellious people who engage in useless talk and deceive others. This is especially true of those who insist on circumcision for salvation. 11 They must be silenced, because they are turning whole families away from the truth by their false teaching. And they do it only for money. 12 Even one of their own men, a prophet from Crete, has said about them, “The people of Crete are all liars, cruel animals, and lazy gluttons.” 13 This is true. So reprimand them sternly to make them strong in the faith. 14 They must stop listening to Jewish myths and the commands of people who have turned away from the truth (Titus 1:10-14 NIV).​

 

[OzSpen]

since they get their ideas from what THEY feel are just as Scriptural writings

I'm not interested in what 'THEY feel' or what 'I feel' because this kind of vulnerable subjectivity is subject to all kinds of variation caused by various factors.

 

[Mjh29]

I am thinking more along the lines of cooperation in what is received from God...revelation...prophecy..etc. We need to take an interest in the spiritual development of each person..with LESS emphasis on dogmatics. Some things can be learned along the way...why make somebody believe a creed religiously? We are not a religion...but we are entering into life and relationship.

If we concentrated on sound doctrine...we would have a lot less trouble with error and division. And I'm not talking about something that has a man's name on it. I mean a proper understanding of what constitutes the new life in Christ. What is the character of a Christian. How does love change what we think and do?....etc.

Then the question arises, which doctrine is the truth? There is a vast difference between Calvin and Arminias. Just saying "we need to stop focusing on doctrine and start focusing on the truth" is too generic. You know who else claim to have the truth? Mormans. Jehovas witnesses. And do you know what separates our truth from their "truth"? Sound Theological doctrine.

 

[Episkopos]

Then the question arises, which doctrine is the truth? There is a vast difference between Calvin and Arminias. Just saying "we need to stop focusing on doctrine and start focusing on the truth" is too generic. You know who else claim to have the truth? Mormans. Jehovas witnesses. And do you know what separates our truth from their "truth"? Sound Theological doctrine.

Life. New life according to the Spirit. A life that overflows with love, joy, and peace.

 

[Willie T]

Does anyone understand that the "Bible" we stand in pulpits, pounding, and hollering that "We are told to read no others!!!", didn't even exist when those words we feel we are standing on, were written? All that existed then were the Jewish Scriptures, and a few other books we discount and deny today.

Even the single book, Revelation, from whence we draw our famous statement that "No words may be added to this book, or taken away." (claiming that means, The Bible.) wasn't even allowed to be considered "Biblical" for almost 400 years after Jesus died.

And no one finds any of that odd?

As John Wimber once told an angry mob when they asked, incensed, "How far are you going to let 'that stuff' go!?!?!?.…… "I'll let it go no farther than what is in this book!", as he held The Bible up high.
They were satisfied...…… and he wondered, "Haven't they even READ this book?" (Meaning that all the things they were upset about were right inside the covers of that book.)

So... things that others follow may not be "our ways", but we are usually VERY wrong to try and claim they did not derive their beliefs from the Bible, as they read it and believe it...…. The same as we do.

 

[Episkopos]

Does anyone understand that the "Bible" we stand in pulpits, pounding, and hollering that "We are told to read no others!!!", didn't even exist when those words we feel we are standing on, were written? All that existed then were the Jewish Scriptures, and a few other books we discount and deny today.

Even the single book, Revelation, from whence we draw our famous statement that "No words may be added to this book, or taken away." (claiming that means, The Bible.) wasn't even allowed to be considered "Biblical" for almost 400 years after Jesus died.

And no one finds any of that odd?

As John Wimber once told an angry mob when they asked, incensed, "How far are you going to let 'that stuff' go!?!?!?.…… "I'll let it go no farther than what is in this book!", as he held The Bible up high.
They were satisfied...…… and he wondered, "Haven't they even READ this book?" (Meaning that all the things they were upset about were right inside the covers of that book.)

Good points. In the days of the early church the only book of Scriptures was the OT in either it's Septuagint or Masoretic form. The NT was written to encourage people who were already familiar with spiritual life. It was written to churches.

Knowing that many would get the NT writings wrong through a lack of understanding of all things spiritual...was it worth their dissemination to the general public?

Well, in the absence of spiritual men who could preach the gospel...at least the written words of testimony could reach everyone. While the gospel was meant to be preached by living people...who could explain the way of life...and be a witness of this power...we have had to settle, too often, for people who were educated but not really qualified spiritually for the task. IOW we haven't waited for the right qualifications for hearing what we think the gospel is. Has it been worth it?


So then yes. But there are many things to correct in they who have received the gospel in it's obscure spiritual language, yet understand it in carnal terms...as if it was addressed to all people in their present state.

We have been trying to sort that out ever since.

The problem is that people quickly look for answers and assurances but without looking at the conditions. People jump too quickly to conclusions so that instead of using the remaining time to properly understand the word...that time is used to defend a superficial grasp of the words of life.

 

[Willie T]

Did you know that all English translations of the Bible printed in the sixteenth century included a section or appendix for Apocryphal books? Matthew's Bible, published in 1537, contains all the Apocrypha of the later King James Version 1611, in an inter-testamental section.

The 1538 Myles Coverdale Bible contained an Apocrypha that excluded Baruch and the Prayer of Manasseh. The 1560 Geneva Bible placed the Prayer of Manasseh after 2 Chronicles; the rest of the Apocrypha were placed in an inter-testamental section.

The Douay-Rheims Bible (1582–1609) placed the Prayer of Manasseh and 3 and 4 Esdras into an Appendix of the second volume of the Old Testament.

The apocrypha was a part of the KJV for 274 years until being removed in 1885 A.D. (That's only a little over a hundred years ago..... Some of our grandparents were likely raised on those Bibles... since they didn't buy a new one every year in those days.)

 

[Willie T]

I'm not interested in what 'THEY feel' or what 'I feel' because this kind of vulnerable subjectivity is subject to all kinds of variation caused by various factors.

That's a little unrealistic. Because anyone has to feel what they are reading and trusting in is right, or else they would likely be a bit insane to say they believed it.

 

[faithfulness]

Life. New life according to the Spirit. A life that overflows with love, joy, and peace.

Life...Love Joy Peace, overflowing--words that fall like dew and center us again.

I've sat under a Princeton grad since '86 (without realizing "Calvin" in there until much later ) because he taught Christology and has perhaps the most tender heart for the things of God (and brilliant mind) of any teacher I've known.

 

[faithfulness]

Life...Love Joy Peace, overflowing--words that fall like dew and center us again.

I've sat under a Princeton grad since '86 (without realizing "Calvin" in there until much later ) because he taught Christology and has perhaps the most tender heart for the things of God (and brilliant mind) of any teacher I've known.

correction: should have said "on and off" otherwise, the question would beg "Why aren't you farther along than you are?"