Seeing Sanctification

[Behold]

THROUGH FAITH.

Thought faith, = ONCE.
God accepted your faith ONCE, and now you are SAVED.
Faith accepted once, "justified by faith" ONCE, and SAVED FOREVER = Eternal Life.
See how that works?
See it yet?
You do not keep yourself connected to God by your faith, as in "abiding", which is a self effort.
You are Kept by the power of God, because God accepted your FAITH, = ONCE, -= born again ONCE.
Do you understand this word "once"?
And how many times are you born again because your faith is accepted by God.??? = ONCE.

So, here is how the heretic misunderstands....
They think of it like this...."ok, God saved me by my faith, and now i hold onto my faith and keep myself saved by holding unto my faith for the rest of my life"..... "and by doing this, by trusting in my faith, i know that God will keep me as long as i don't have dead faith". "So as long as i have my faith, and its not dead, and worry about my faith, and trust in my faith".. "i keep myself saved", and if i dont, i die and go to Hell.

Do you see the Problem with the heretic?
This heretic is counting on their FAITH, instead of trusting in CHRIST.
"Faith" has become their salvation, in THEIR MIND.
Thats you.
You.

And as i told you yesterday, FAITH does not save you, so stop trusting in FAITH, and start trusting in CHRIST.

Faith does not save you.
GOD saves you THROUGH your Faith.
"Faith is accepted, counted, as righteousness", = ONCE. = born again ONCE. = "justified by faith," = ONCE, and then kept saved by God, forever.

= """"God who began salvation in the born again, will HIMSELF be faithful to complete it"."""

See that? = GOD HIMSELF keeps you saved, because God is the One who finishes your salvation.
Not you.
You dont finish it, by "faith".
God finishes it by "FAITHFULNESS" based on the Blood of Jesus.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, @Behold, it seems to me that you are teaching that if a man has faith and then falls away later (see Luke 8:13) that he continues to be saved.

That those who fall away (who cease to have faith in Jesus), continue to have salvation.

That is heresy, my friend.

And as i told you yesterday, FAITH does not save you,

I am saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 5:1-2).

Faith does not save you.
GOD saves you THROUGH your Faith.

And therefore, faith is a catalyst for my salvation; it is the way through which I gain access to the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:2).

To say therefore that faith does not save us is playing a game of semantics. In all reality, we are saved by grace through faith; and therefore faith is the venue by which I obtain salvation.

If I fall away (cease to have faith) I am not going to continue to have salvation...because God saves me through my faith; and therefore if faith is lacking, the venue by which I have obtained my salvation is missing and therefore my line to salvation is broken so that I am no longer connected to salvation.

To teach otherwise is to teach the heresy that one can fall away and still be saved.

You are not teaching that, are you?

 

[Behold]

So, @Behold, i


And therefore, faith is a catalyst for my salvation; it is the way through which I gain access to the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 5:2).

?

Notice that you said you "gain access" to the Grace of God?
"gain" as in , still getting there, if you keep the faith.
That is self saving, by using faith to continue the PROCESS of GAINING....or keeping.

Listen up...
If you are born again...... you are not gaining Salvation.
You would already have it.
JESUS is Salvation. If you have Him, you are Saved.
Its GAINED, and finished, the second you are born again.
Faith does not keep this, as you teach as your gospel of faith works..
GOD keeps you saved, once you are born again.....not your faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

Notice that you said you "gain access" to the Grace of God?
"gain" as in , still getting there, if you keep the faith.
That is self saving, by using faith to continue the PROCESS of GAINING....or keeping.

Listen up...
If you are born again...... you are not gaining Salvation.
You would already have it.
JESUS is Salvation. If you have Him, you are Saved.
Its GAINED, and finished, the second you are born again.
Faith does not keep this, as you teach as your gospel of faith works..
GOD keeps you saved, once you are born again.....not your faith.

Now you're simply picking apart my bad choice of words.

Here is what I was trying to say:

Rom 5:1, Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rom 5:2, By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

As for whether we are kept by the power of God by faith or not; it seems that you do not learn from the holy scriptures that get presented to you.

It is written,

1Pe 1:5, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Yes, my faith is kept through the sealing of the Holy Spirit on my life (Ephesians 1:13-14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5).

 

[Behold]

Now you're simply picking apart my bad choice of words.

it seems that you do not learn from the holy scriptures that get presented to you.

.

As you said.
You're words are bad choices.
We finally agree.

 

[justbyfaith]

As you said.
You're words are bad choices.
We finally agree.

I made a bad choice of words one time and you make a big thing out of it.

You are obviously hostile to any teacher that might threaten your desired monopoly.

I corrected my bad choice of words by quoting the scripture that I was referring to when I made that choice. If you would have looked up that scripture, it would have clarified for you what I meant and you would not have nitpicked at my choice of words.

 

[Behold]

You are obviously hostile to any teacher that might threaten your desired monopoly.

You are a legalist.
Your teaching harms.
You deny the Cross and reject the Grace of God when you teach that a born again Christian can go to hell.
Its offensive to God when someone who defines themself as a teacher, refutes "eternal life" and replaces it with..."temporary, and based on if you keep yourself saved".

 

[justbyfaith]

You are a legalist.
Your teaching harms.
You deny the Cross and reject the Grace of God when you teach that a born again Christian can go to hell.
Its offensive to God when someone who defines themself as a teacher, refutes "eternal life" and replaces it with..."temporary, and based on if you keep yourself saved".

I don't think that I keep myself saved...

But if my faith is merely nominal, lukewarm, or shallow...

It is not a faith that will make it to the end and it is not a faith that apprehends election from the right hand of the Father.

Nominal, lukewarm, and shallow faith can result in falling away (Luke 8:13).

Surely you don't teach that if a man falls away, he continues to be saved?

Because that is heretical doctrine at its finest.

 

[justbyfaith]

Someone sent me this in a PM recently:

I cannot thank you enough for standing against what Behold is presuming to teach... I am most familiar with this man... and his teachings begin as the APPEARANCE of a fierce defence of GRACE... Like most false doctrines... the TRUE perversion does not come out until it is usually too late.. and what is used against the one who dares to argue is that WELL... surely... you are not truly serious about CHRISTIANITY if you would not STRIVE to be without sin !!!

This man is dangerous... and he does not know me under this name... which might change now that I have thanked you on the sinless thread.

 

[RogerDC]

1.) Sanctification, is "completed righteousness", ....is already accomplished by us being "in Christ". This is the effect of the Blood Atonement. Its the eternal effect of "The Gift of Righteousness".

The Blood Atonement alone does not mean we have “completed righteousness” and it does not “complete” our sanctification. If that were so, all mankind would be saved, because the Cross unconditionally redeemed all mankind (1John 2:2, 1Tim 2:3-6, Romans 5:18) - even atheists, Satanists and serial killers are redeemed by the Blood Atonement - but not all mankind will be saved.

It sounds like you don’t know the difference between our REDEMPTION and our SALVATION. Our REDEMPTION was a one-time event - the suffering and death of Jesus on the Cross- it is unconditional and includes everyone - past, present, future. On the other hand, our SALVATION is conditional and is a process - a process that begins with the sanctification provided by the Cross.

You also need to understand that there is more than one source and form of sanctification. There is (1) the sanctification that comes from the Cross, (2) the sanctification that comes from baptism, and (3) the sanctification that comes from personal righteousness - ie, keeping the commandments (Romans 6).

1.) Sanctification, is "completed righteousness", ....is already accomplished by us being "in Christ". This is the effect of the Blood Atonement. Its the eternal effect of "The Gift of Righteousness".

The Blood Atonement is not what is meant by the term, “in Christ”. 1John 2:3-5 explains how “we may be sure that we are IN HIM” (v.5) - “And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says ‘I know Him’ but disobeys his commandments is a LIAR, and the TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM”.

To be “in Christ” is to love Christ, and we demonstrate our love for him by keeping his commandments:
“If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love” (John 15:9).

To be “in Christ” means to abide in Christ, and we do this keeping his commandments:
“If you keep my commandments you will abide in my love” (John 15:9);
“All who keep His commandments abide in Him, and He in them.” (1John 3:24).

Rev 14:12 concisely describes what is means to be “in Christ” - “the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus”.

This is the effect of the Blood Atonement. Its the eternal effect of "The Gift of Righteousness".

The “effect” of the Blood Atonement is not “eternal” for everyone - for those who reject the free gift of God’s grace through faith in Christ, the Blood Atonement has no effect at all - let alone an eternal effect - because they will not make it to Heaven.

So, until a person who is born again, sees themselves as GOD sees them

Believers who don’t repent of their sins are still unrighteous sinners in the eyes of God. In Gal 5 and 1Cor 6, Paul warns believers that that sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God. If you disobey God and don’t strive (ie, attempt, albeit imperfectly) to keep his commandments, you may be judged to not be “in Christ” and may end up in Hell, as Paul warns (as does Jesus in Matt 7:21-23).

We must walk in the light by keeping his commandments (“IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light … then the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin” - 1John 1:7).

Christians are literally , right now, Spiritual citizens of Heaven

You forgot to mention that any Christian can lose his citizenship due to loss of faith or sin. But if you want to delude yourself that you’re already saved, go ahead - it won’t help you come Judgement Day.

 

[mjrhealth]

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Good works are not your works but the works of God as Jesus put it,

Joh_10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me

even unbelievers do "good" works.

 

[justbyfaith]

To be “in Christ” means to abide in Christ, and we do this keeping his commandments:

Actually, keeping His commandments is the result of abiding in Christ.

We abide in Christ by staying connected to the vine (John 15:1-8) through faith.

 

[Enoch111]

Good works are not your works but the works of God as Jesus put it..

You can twist this any way you want, but Christians are not robots as you are suggesting. While the Holy Spirit works within believers, those good works are in fact the good works of those who have been saved by grace. And here's the proof:

REVELATION 2: MESSAGE TO EPHESUS
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Did Jesus say "I know MY works" or did He say " I know THY works"? But as usual, you will learn nothing, and continue to try and make others think that you are super-spiritual. But Jesus knows your works also.

 

[mjrhealth]

You can twist this any way you want, but Christians are not robots as you are suggesting. While the Holy Spirit works within believers, those good works are in fact the good works of those who have been saved by grace. And here's the proof:

REVELATION 2: MESSAGE TO EPHESUS
1 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

Did Jesus say "I know MY works" or did He say " I know THY works"? But as usual, you will learn nothing, and continue to try and make others think that you are super-spiritual. But Jesus knows your works also.

He could say that to muslims and be right. They too do good works as do many religions. Its not about you, its about Him if you get the glory than He does not.

 

[justbyfaith]

You can twist this any way you want, but Christians are not robots as you are suggesting.

Eze 36:25, Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
Eze 36:26, A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27, And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[RogerDC]

He could say that to muslims and be right. They too do good works as do many religions.

Poor argument. Muslims don't have faith in Christ so their works count for nothing. Works count only when done in faith:

“He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17);

“the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12).

 

[RogerDC]

He could say that to muslims and be right. They too do good works as do many religions. Its not about you, its about Him if you get the glory than He does not.

If you are tempted to sin ... let's say, steal something ... what is better - to steal, or not to steal?

 

[mjrhealth]

If you are tempted to sin ... let's say, steal something ... what is better - to steal, or not to steal?

If you had a family that was starving and had no choice, you had to do it to save their lives, would yo?? Do you think God would be angry??

 

[mjrhealth]

Poor argument. Muslims don't have faith in Christ so their works count for nothing. Works count only when done in faith:

“He who through faith is righteous shall live” (Romans 1:17);

“the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev 14:12).

and neither does christans?

Luk 17:9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
Luk 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you had a family that was starving and had no choice, you had to do it to save their lives, would yo?? Do you think God would be angry??

Proverbs 6:30-31.