The Bible does not say those things Ron, your version does. When Jesus returns, all those who do not know God will be removed sir. Using altered versions of the Bible which contradict themselves do not motivate me to leave my God
The great tribulation is rapidly approaching, survival depends on doing God's will Mat 7:21
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The Bible does not say those things Ron, your version does. When Jesus returns, all those who do not know God will be removed sir. Using altered versions of the Bible which contradict themselves do not motivate me to leave my God
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
then why are yoiu using the NWT??? That is one of the most corrupt English translations around! The writers have intentionally rewrote Scripture passages to support their false doctrine. And Sorry but the Hebrew does say that sir. You only need the courage to seefor yourself. Do not take my word for it or the Watchtowers word for it. Be a Berean and see for yourself!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
It is for sure on the top three worst versions .
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
In the past at least they had enough integrity to bracket the words they added to Gods Word and say they were not found in the original manuscripts. Now they don't do that and just vomit out their rewrites as though they came from God. I dread the judgment God has in store for those anonymous retranslators of Scripture.
I used to use the KJV, matter of fact like many I actually thought it was the Bible, ignorant of what the V stood for. After study, which it doesn't take much it is easy to see the clear deliberate manipulations to support a doctrine. That is why my primary choice is the NWT. To easily see an alteration take a gander at Ps 110:1 with a word to word concordance sir. If you have an honest heart, you will no doubt observe the incorrect rendering of the verse. Hope that helps Ron
Desire Of All Nations
Well-Known Member
The promised protection from the Tribulation is physical:
Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days." - Rev. 12:6
Let My outcasts dwell with you, O Moab; be a shelter to them from the face of the spoiler. For the extortioner is at an end, devastation ceases, the oppressors are consumed out of the land." - Isa. 16:4
“At that time Michael shall stand up, the great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that time. And at that time your people shall be delivered, every one who is found written in the book. - Dan. 12:1
"But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth." - Rev. 12:14-16
According to what the Bible says, the people who are accounted worthy of escaping the Tribulation are being physically protected from it. Christ referred to the Tribulation as an hour of trial in part because the Laodiceans' loyalty to Him will be tested in the Tribulation, which includes having to be martyred:
“And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death." - Rev. 12:11
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."- Rev. 20:4
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well as you declare it is easy to see the manipulations- give us some examples then.
Yes I know Psalm 110 It says Yahweh says to my Lord! And I also know why all translations render it Lord. It is not a deliberate attempt at manipulation as the Watchtower lies about.
But why does the NMT falsely add the indefinite article "A" in John 1:1
Why they add the word other in John 1:3 and Phil 2:9 when the word other appears in no greek manuscript? Those three (of many I can write here) completely alter the meaning of those three passages to support their false doctrine.
But going back to Psalm 11:1 did you notice in your concordance that the second Lord is "Adon"? singular? Why is Yahweh called Adonai 9plural) in numerous places in the ot? Why is god called Elophim (plural) in the OT ? Why in Genesis 1 does Elohim (plural) say let US make man in our image.
The Watchtower declares Jesus is an angel which is not the image of God! But man was made only in the image of god.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Butchering up God's Word with pulling out a verse here or there that SEEMS to point to a rapture, is NOT HOW to study and understand God's Word. That's basically what your post has done.
The Revelation 12:15-17 verses show the devil is ABLE to ATTACK the symbolic Woman, which are those who keep God's commandments, AND have the Testimony of Jesus Christ! That means Christians! Thus that Rev.12:6 Scripture is NOT proof of a pre-trib rapture of the Church.
That does not reveal the timing of Christ's coming to gather His Church. It only reveals the event when Christ's enemies have all... been defeated on earth. Those who study God's Word knows that is the 'last day' of this present world when that happens. So you've wrongly... referred to a verse that shows just the opposite... of your pre-trib rapture theory. And that shows you're just quoting Scripture some man at a pulpit told you to say, that you don't really know what the verse actually is about.
Same here, you obviously don't understand the difference in Old Testament prophetic summary, while greater detail is given later in the New Testament Books. Revelation 12:7-17 is about the first sentence of that verse, which is Satan's attack on the Church on earth PRIOR to Christ's coming. The actual time of deliverance of the Church is shown by Jesus in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and it's easy to know, because Jesus said After the tribulation is when His coming to gather His saints will occur.
Why didn't you include the last Revelation 12:17 verse that goes with that? I know, it's because the 17th verse shows that serpent, the devil, goes after those in Christ who have the Testimony of Jesus Christ!! Because you PURPOSEFULLY LEFT THAT OUT, it shows you have a FALSE AGENDA to push.
Also, just by reading... that Revelation 12:14-16 Scripture, you should have recognized that the "woman" (representing Christ's Church) doesn't actually go anywhere in that, because the serpent is still ABLE to spew waters as a flood at the "woman". So your pre-trib rapture theory sure did fail with that verse!
No physical escape. The idea of escape is about escaping the "hour of temptation" (Revelation 3:10). That hour of temptation is about the event of the coming pseudo-Christ to Jerusalem setting himself up as Christ, and everyone in the world believing it, except for Christ's very elect. The 'temptation' is about the danger of bowing in deception to that false-Messiah and worshiping him in place of Christ Who comes later. That is what the waters as a flood out of serpent's mouth after the symbolic "woman" is about.
That definitely is NOT about a pre-trib rapture. You are so deceived if you think so, and are in grave danger. That verse happens after the devil with his angels are booted out of the heavenly dimension by Michael, for the coming "great tribulation" at the end of this world. Those are some Christian brethren that are to be delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ, like He said in Mark 13. Those are of the fellowservants of the saints under God's Altar in the 5th Seal of Rev.6 that ask God 'how long', and He tells them they must wait until their brethren were killed for a Testimony as they were.
Those are about God's faithful saints, of both Old Testament times, and all the way down and through the "great tribulation". Those who refuse to worship the beast nor his image, and did not receive his mark is specifically about those of us today that will refuse the coming pseudo-Christ which Lord Jesus warned us about in Matthew 24:23-26.
To be among that Revelation 20:4 group of Christ's faithful that reign with Him, you'd have to go through the coming "great tribulation" to be subjected to that temptation of the beast and his mark. That is, if you don't die in Christ first.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The NWT is just a version . And a bad one at that .
The best english version still stands with the KJV .
You correctly showed the manipulation of the KJV in the verse sir. I am glad you are able to observe it for yourself. That is why I use that verse, because it is easy to see the alteration. From the realization of that, you will be able to move forward to see that the translators of many versions altered His name in many more places as well. Eventually you will come to realize they were not ignorant in doing so, rather it is a deliberate manipulation to support a doctrine.
Of course this is just an opinion Amigo, any version which alters the most important name to civilization is not what I would consider best, matter of fact not even good Rom 10:13
But I will say, you can find truth in the KJV, it is just quite a bit more difficult.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
W ell if you bothered to read the forwards and intros to KJV's and other bibles that do not print out the name yahweh, you would see them explain why.
So Robert this is not manipulation Scripture as the Watchtower accuses, merely following a tradition and explaining why they continue it.
NOUN
- the action of manipulating something in a skillful manner.
"the format allows fast picture manipulation" ·
[more] - the action of manipulating someone in a clever or unscrupulous way
Let me paste three verses from the NWT they deliberately manipulated.
John 1:2 "a and the Word was with God,b and the Word was a god."
The indefninite article does not appear in al lother translations due to the construct of the sentnece. Intentional manipulation to alter the meaning of the passage.
Phil. 2: h i "gave no consideration to a seizure, namely, that he should be equal to God" - intentional manipulation by rearranging the words to make them say something the inspired writer did not intend.
Phil 2: "For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior positiono and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name",p
Added the word "other " which appears in no manuscripts to alter the very meaning of what God was saying!
sorry but what the KJV did is not an unscrupulous manipulation as the authors of th e NWT did to degrade who Jesus is.
I know why, the question is, does Jehovah approve of it? Did you know that those translators did not try to remove the names of the false gods in their versions? How disgraceful to try to remove the most important name that has or ever will exist. Any version who has such disregard for God's name does not have my respect.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well I will let god decide if He approves or not. No man can know that- even the self appointed anointed ones of the Watchtower. but it is not the name Yahweh that is of importance. It is tghe name Jesus that matterts now!
Philippians 2:9-11
King James Version
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
No greek manuscript has the word "other" in this passage! the name Jesus is now far more important than Yahweh and God the Father is glorified to make it so!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
You do realize that english stemmed from german . i say that cause the J sound makes a Y sound .
SO by your own words , even your version is corrupt . FOR ITS not saying the true hebrew name .
SEE .
I did a study a long while back in the library on the english language. Read quite a few books on it .
We did not even have the letter J till middle english . ENGLISH came from german . LOOK up the roots .
And the J in german has a Y SOUND . Now the Jehovah translation is bad news , not cause it says JEHOVAH
but for what it has done to other parts . Its omitting stuff to agree with RUSSELL . WHO claimed GOD gave HIM the correct
greek . YET under oath the man couldnt speak greek . HOW CONVIENENT . HE duped many folks my friend .
MANY folks . It would be like me creating a new bible and saying GOD gave me the true greek
ANYONE can do that . Yall should never have bought it .
See the distinction sir? And the likely reason for the difference? Best to you Ron
The initial change of languages happened in Babel sir. True they spread all over the earth, and like people languages are generally made up of several different tongues over the years, english is definitely no exception, likely more the rule. If you provide an example of where you think the New World Translation missed the mark, I will be glad to discuss it with you.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
The likely reason for the difference is that the Watchtower refused to write Scripture as it was inspired and they felt the need to correct gods Inspiratrion and add the word "other" to support their false doctrine.
Time will tell sir. It is obvious that Jesus did not create himself, yet so many of you think otherwise, therefore other was added. Me personally I wouldn't have added it as it isn't necessary, nor was it there originally as you mentioned, kinda like adding torture to stake, when it wasn't there either, only an incapacitated person would think that being nailed on a piece of wood wouldn't be torture.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Jesus was not created.
Adding to the word of God is a damnable sin as the Apostle said! god doesn't need me, you or the Watchtower to edit and correct what He inspired the writers of Scripture to write!
Other changes the entire meaning of the sentence, and you know that! God the Father said Jesus' name is above EVERY name . Period! If for teh New Testament era he wanted us to know the name Yahweh is still supreme He would have inspired the word "other", but He didn't and we shouldn't, and accept the Word of God as written and not rewritten by a man made organization!
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