THE LIE... And the father of it....

[brakelite]

There is a commonly held belief tenaciously clung to by every religious persuasion on the planet. This includes both Catholic and Protestant. It also includes the vast array of adherents to new age beliefs; practitioners of the occult; followers of cults far and wide; members of all eastern religions including Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucian, Shinto, and everything in between. Heathen, pagan, Christian, new age, all agree on this one fundamental doctrine.

And all are dead wrong.

"Ye shall not surely die..."

Direct from the lips of Satan himself, the very first sermon preached on the immortality of man, the father of lies, and this lie had been echoing throughout pagan religions since that time, being the foundation of the Babylonian mystery cults, incorporated into Persian Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Greek philosophy and mythology, Roman sol Invictus, adopted and baptised by the Catholic church, inherited by Protestantism and peached and echoed from nearly every pulpit throughout the world since.

"Ye shall not surely die... But go straight to heaven or hell forever"

The only people of ancient times who did NOT accept that lie were the Hebrews, whose scriptures we claim as our own. The ONLY religion that does NOT believe in the immortality of the soul is the religion of the Bible.

 

[justbyfaith]

The second death is defined as being cast into the lake (or furnace) of fire, where there will be conscious torment according to Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50.

It will be everlasting punishment according to Matthew 25:46.

 

[Enoch111]

The only people of ancient times who did NOT accept that lie were the Hebrews, whose scriptures we claim as our own. The ONLY religion that does NOT believe in the immortality of the soul is the religion of the Bible.

Looks like you have NOT been reading the Hebrew Scriptures carefully. According to the Old Testament the soul is IMPERISHABLE and went to Sheol (now Hades) after death. And the New Testament confirms this.

So the OT REFUTES your belief that the soul is perishable (immortality applies to the body only). The King James translators should never have used the word "grave" for Sheol.

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave*? Selah. (Psalm 89:48)

This has been correctly translated in other translations (not that I recommend them as such).

English Standard Version
What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah

New American Standard Bible
What man can live and not see death? Can he deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

*Strong's Concordance
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Definition: underworld (place to which people descend at death)

There are at least 30 passages which refer to Sheol. Which means that you have FAILED TO DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE.

Soul Sleep is a false doctrine that has been adopted by Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others. But it is a lie. The souls of the saints go directly and immediately to Heaven. The souls of the unsaved dead go directly to Sheol/Hades. So you should give up this false teaching instead of trying to promote it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi @Enoch111,

Not saying that I agree that the soul isn't immortal; but there is a scripture that appears to say to us that the soul of man isn't immortal.

1Ti 6:14, That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15, Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16, Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

It seems to be here saying that only Jesus is immortal.

Which is not to say that those who are in the body of Christ do not also partake of immortality, because we are in Christ:

But what of those who are not in the body of Christ?

Can it truly be said of them that they have an immortal soul?

Now I know that this is merely an argument against the reality of eternal punishment; but I do not currently have an answer.

Except to say that certain scriptures teach the reality of conscious everlasting torment as the punishment for sins.

Such as Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, and Matthew 25:46.

 

[Enoch111]

but there is a scripture that appears to say to us that the soul of man isn't immortal.

If you maintain the distinction between immortal (body) and imperishable (soul) this fallacy will disappear. Also after the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be immortal (bodies).

 

[justbyfaith]

If you maintain the distinction between immortal (body) and imperishable (soul) this fallacy will disappear. Also after the Resurrection/Rapture all the saints will be immortal (bodies).

I think also that everybody dies.

It is also true that everyone will be raised from the dead...some to glory, and others to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Waiting on him]

James 5:20 KJV
[20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.


Tecarta Bible
Save a what from death?

 

[Waiting on him]

Ezekiel 18:4 KJV
[4] Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.


Tecarta Bible

 

[justbyfaith]

Then there is the contention of what is the definition of death.

I believe that it is sound doctrine to define it as separation.

Whether of the soul and spirit from God (spiritual death);

Or of the soul and spirit from the body (physical death).

 

[ScottA]

John 3:6
"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."

What is born of the flesh dies. What is born of the spirit of God never dies.

 

[quietthinker]

Looks like you have NOT been reading the Hebrew Scriptures carefully. According to the Old Testament the soul is IMPERISHABLE and went to Sheol (now Hades) after death. And the New Testament confirms this.

So the OT REFUTES your belief that the soul is perishable (immortality applies to the body only). The King James translators should never have used the word "grave" for Sheol.

What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave*? Selah. (Psalm 89:48)

This has been correctly translated in other translations (not that I recommend them as such).

English Standard Version
What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah

New American Standard Bible
What man can live and not see death? Can he deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

*Strong's Concordance
sheol: underworld (place to which people descend at death)
Original Word: שְׁאוֹל
Part of Speech: Noun Feminine
Transliteration: sheol
Phonetic Spelling: (sheh-ole')
Definition: underworld (place to which people descend at death)

There are at least 30 passages which refer to Sheol. Which means that you have FAILED TO DO YOUR DUE DILIGENCE.

Soul Sleep is a false doctrine that has been adopted by Seventh Day Adventists, Jehovah's Witnesses, and many others. But it is a lie. The souls of the saints go directly and immediately to Heaven. The souls of the unsaved dead go directly to Sheol/Hades. So you should give up this false teaching instead of trying to promote it.

Bending Lucifer's lie anyway still makes it a lie irrespective of how sanitised it might appear to men even by quoting scripture. As I recall, isn't this a favourite ploy of his?

 

[Enoch111]

Bending Lucifer's lie anyway still makes it a lie irrespective of how sanitised it might appear to men even by quoting scripture. As I recall, isn't this a favourite ploy of his?

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but Soul Sleep and Annihilationism are Lucifer's lies. Kindly study the references to Sheol and Hades in the Bible. And then let us know what is true and what is false.

 

[shnarkle]

There is a commonly held belief tenaciously clung to by every religious persuasion on the planet. This includes both Catholic and Protestant. It also includes the vast array of adherents to new age beliefs; practitioners of the occult; followers of cults far and wide; members of all eastern religions including Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucian, Shinto, and everything in between. Heathen, pagan, Christian, new age, all agree on this one fundamental doctrine.

And all are dead wrong.

"Ye shall not surely die..."

Direct from the lips of Satan himself, the very first sermon preached on the immortality of man, the father of lies, and this lie had been echoing throughout pagan religions since that time, being the foundation of the Babylonian mystery cults, incorporated into Persian Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, Greek philosophy and mythology, Roman sol Invictus, adopted and baptised by the Catholic church, inherited by Protestantism and peached and echoed from nearly every pulpit throughout the world since.

"Ye shall not surely die... But go straight to heaven or hell forever"

The only people of ancient times who did NOT accept that lie were the Hebrews, whose scriptures we claim as our own. The ONLY religion that does NOT believe in the immortality of the soul is the religion of the Bible.

Who does Satan refer to when he says "you"? Who is God referring to when he says "you"? Aren't they both referring to the same person? The problem, as I see it, is that the image of God cannot die. Christ is the image of God, and it is only through death to this fleshly existence that Christ "is come in the flesh".

Christ is slain from the foundation of creation. Creation comes about in, with, and through Christ emptying himself into creation. Christ's spirit animates and sustains all of creation, and can never die. It is only when one separates themselves from Christ, or at least believes the lie that they're separated from Christ that death can enter into the world. The lie itself dies, but there is no sting when one has ceased to identify with the lie.

This is what happens to Adam. He is the image of God, and reflects God as long as he walks with him, but as soon as Adam hides from God, or turns his face from God, he is no longer reflecting God anymore. He has separated himself from God He has believed the lie that he is separated from God. Christ refutes the lie by pointing out that "apart from me you can do nothing".