I don't really know what you mean here . . . of course there are the OT faithful who are accepted by God.
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The Rapture: Too Good to Be True?
- Thread starter Rapture and End Times
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Nancy
Well-Known Member
Agreed. The implications of those teaching this to others will undo any kind of seed they tried to plant. So, IF the Pre-Trib rapture does NOT happen...what will those who were taught that we would escape all the bad things think then? Probably that said person telling them this, is a liar and that there is NO Jesus coming back. I wish people would just be PREPARED either way.
Absolutely. The Lord has taught me things from scripture about that kingdom, but not to share so much as to understand the reason for certain "divine appointments," that left me doubting my sanity.
I see no requirements of believers in scripture other than belief and obedience, but scripture clearly defines the saints who come out of the great tribulation as part of His church and as those who will live and reign with Him in His kingdom.
You seem very concerned with temporal sequence regarding the church. Eg the Gentile church as opposed to the entire church. As an example, the modern church didn't exist until after Pentecost. That much is obvious. However, that doesn't make the Old Testament saints any less part of His Church.
Time is a spatial dimension and part of creation. This isn't just special relativity theory, but expressed in the first chapter of Genesis. There were no days before God separated the light from the darkness on day one.
So time is entirely irrelevant to God. We experience time as part of creation, but He could only experience time by entering His creation as the Holy Spirit, and as His Son. This isn't expressed in scripture because our natural experience is the passage of time. We live in a moment, but are aware of past and present. As it is written God placed eternity in our hearts, it's part of our conscious awareness.
We see a creation of the church at Pentecost, He saw it from the foundation of the world. The mind of Christ gives us God's perspective or it would be impossible to understand prophecy.
Do you see this kingdom as being the same kingdom that Jesus came offering to Israel? And that had they received Jesus as their Messiah, that kingdom would have begun?
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Ok, but the point being clarified here is that the argument that "No Christian is exempt from tribulation" is not a valid argument to show Christians must endure the Great Tribulation, right?
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I'm not understand from this how you understand my reasoning, and how it might be "compromised".
Yes, God is eternal, and is not bound by our continuum, having Himself created it. I think we are in agreement on that.
Paul wrote that the Jews having rejected the Gospel, that it would henceforth go directly to the Gentiles. While God is eternal, this is still what happened, right?
God is eternal, but still Israel was the only nation that could have covenant relationship with God during OT times, right? And then Jesus brought all people near to Him, and now all people can have covenant relationship with Him.
In Ecclesiates, I think the better understanding is that God has fixed man's hearts in this world, so that no one can understand what He is doing.
Ecclesiastes 3:11 KJV
11) He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end.
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
JESUS WILL COME FOR HIS LAMBS .
Paul wrote the church and made sure to include this was FROM the LORD .
OH YES . Not all of us are gonna sleep . The dead in Christ shall rise
and we shall caught up together with them in the air with CHRIST and so shall we ever BE .
But be prepared to be persecuted and even killed in this life . DO not expect to escape perseuctions , tribulations or trials .
AND be watching for YE know not the HOUR your LORD does come . Now march on in those trenches
doing all to win souls and to exhort one another and so much the more as we see the day approaching .
We are in the end hour battle for souls . AND we must point them to CHRIST , to the one true original life saving
and life changing Gospel OF JESUS CHRIST . THERE is no other name given under heaven whereby one may be saved .
That if you will confess with Your MOUTH THE LORD JESUS and BELIEVE from the heart that GOD has rose HIM from the dead
YOU SHALL BE SAVED . POINT TO JESUS . POINT to HIM and learn well all HIs teachings . Time is running out .
And as i said , no man knows their last day on earth either . WIN THEM SOULS TO GOD BY THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
while there still be time to do so .
Paul wrote the church and made sure to include this was FROM the LORD .
OH YES . Not all of us are gonna sleep . The dead in Christ shall rise
and we shall caught up together with them in the air with CHRIST and so shall we ever BE .
But be prepared to be persecuted and even killed in this life . DO not expect to escape perseuctions , tribulations or trials .
AND be watching for YE know not the HOUR your LORD does come . Now march on in those trenches
doing all to win souls and to exhort one another and so much the more as we see the day approaching .
We are in the end hour battle for souls . AND we must point them to CHRIST , to the one true original life saving
and life changing Gospel OF JESUS CHRIST . THERE is no other name given under heaven whereby one may be saved .
That if you will confess with Your MOUTH THE LORD JESUS and BELIEVE from the heart that GOD has rose HIM from the dead
YOU SHALL BE SAVED . POINT TO JESUS . POINT to HIM and learn well all HIs teachings . Time is running out .
And as i said , no man knows their last day on earth either . WIN THEM SOULS TO GOD BY THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST
while there still be time to do so .
Not exactly, but the Lord wasn't offering a worldly kingdom in His first appearance. He knew the scriptures and He knew He was headed for the cross, not a throne in Jerusalem.
That's the biggest reason for His rejection by the Jewish population. They wanted a king to overthrow Rome, but God doesn't generally take sides between nations with the exception of Israel. He's used nations to judge other nations in the fullness of their iniquity, but that isn't any indication of righteousness. Babylon was used to judge Judah, and then Babylon was judged by the Medes and Persians.
I do believe however in the restoration of national Israel, their future conversion (many Jews secretly wait for His second coming), and Israel as the place of His throne and worldly dominion.
The more unusual aspect of the millennial kingdom though, is a reversal of roles between angels and men. This is hinted at in scripture, but not explicitly described. Angels are chosen by God to do His will. Choice isn't an option, but the prophets had choice. Some volunteered, some were drafted, but Jonah learned the hard way that choosing obedience is better than your own will. I think that in the Millennium, the angels are granted the opportunity to experience flesh and choice, and to be judged according to the standards established by heaven and Christ. The idea is equitable and aligns with scripture, but my experiences left me questioning my entire life and my sanity.
I don't believe it's optional. You're either here or your not. But the Tim LaHaye stuff is sheer fantasy. If we're saved to be His witnesses and salt and light to a dying world, why would we be yanked off the planet when we're needed the most? That's just crazy.
During the conquest of Canaan, women, children and old men were exempted from war, but men, healthy and of fighting age were called to battle. God released the faint of heart so they wouldn't discourage the brave, but even the persistence of the Canaanites is called a test of the courage of the sons of Israel. God is not a big fan of cowardice. I wouldn't be surprised if women, children, and old folks were raptured, but I don't see it in scripture at all.
Not exactly. Paul preached first in synagogues wherever he went, then moved on to preach to gentiles. The first church in Jerusalem was largely Jewish. The church leaders were Apostles and members of Jesus ' family.
Acts 28:25-28 KJV
25) And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26) Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27) For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28) Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
Much love!
Mugre Pinzon
Member
Tim LaHaye? I didn't see his posts . . .
That's just is . . . this affects those who are here at the time. Whomever that is.
God doesn't have other witnesses? The Revelation portrays that otherwise. Two witnesses. 144,000 Israelites. Angels flying through the skies . . .
Anyway, whether it seems "crazy" or not, that just reflects our opinions of what we think is being said.
Who exactly is the coward to whom you refer?
Much love!
What is your thinking on Peter's statement?
Acts 3:19-21 KJV
19) Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20) And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Much love!
Interesting idea, and one I've not heard before. I can only think of one place, where Paul says we will judge angels, is that where you get this idea from?
Much love!
You know what sounds crazy to me? That God would force His children to endure the 5 month "locust" plague, the 5th trumpet. Or that somehow the people who rebel against God's prophets, and shake their fists at God for the plagues He sends, that they would be converted by the testimony of a Christian.
Angels will give warning, and be ignored. Plagues will pound the earth, and humanity, and men will continue in their rebellion.
Much love!
Davy
Well-Known Member
I quoted those Bible passages because of your denial about the earth STILL existing after Christ's return.
The 'false' doctrine of Amillennialism believes that the new heavens and a new earth (NHNE) begins on the day of Christ's future return. It does not! Amillennialism was a leaven doctrine that began in the 2nd century A.D. It was not held by the 1st century Church fathers.
The NHNE will ONLY begin AFTER... the future "lake of fire" destruction. There CAN be no more 'death' in the NHNE timing. That's another simple Biblical way we can know the lake of fire destruction is PRIOR... to the NHNE timing.
Yes I've read this at least a dozen times, but every passage about Paul's travels has him start preaching in the synagogues and moving out to preach to the gentiles. Acts also has Peter as an Apostle to the Jews and doesn't even speak to some of the other apostles at all. This was because Acts was written by Luke, a companion of Paul.
You really can't create a doctrine based upon one passage, but have to consider the full teaching of scripture. The scholars who dissect verses and words frequently "miss the forest for the trees."
While it's good to get as much out of a verse as possible, people sometimes see meaning that just isn't there. Having read the entire Bible multiple times from childhood, and then multiple versions, multiple times after being born again, I tend to have a broader view. My extrabiblical studies in the sciences, sociology, anthropology, and archeology, as well as classical literature have given me a gestaltic view of history and life. This means nothing to interpretation other than some insights into context, but the Holy Spirit has more to teach me with than someone whose education was liberal arts, a high school diploma, or a seminary certificate.
Believe what you want. I have complete trust in the teaching of His Spirit.
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