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Featured The Study of Revelation

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Harvest 1874, Nov 5, 2018.

  1. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Active Member

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    Revelation

    “The study of the book of Revelation is often approached with fear or hesitation by many believers. Many simply chose not to approach it at all. But this attitude is neither correct nor spiritually healthy. We live at a time in the end of the age when enough information has been made available that Revelation can be understood (at the very least in its basics) by nearly all of the Harvest-time saints (the fully-consecrated). Because it is a very spiritual book and because its contents can be nothing less than very helpful to the Laodicean church it should be one of the most important objects of study at this time. Revelation is the only purely prophetic book in the New Testament writings. Surly this tells us something of its importance to the saints.”

    It is important to remember that most of the prophetic utterances of the prophets of old (both those found in the Old Testament as well as the New) were written not for their benefit, but rather “for our admonition upon whom the ends of the Ages have come" (1 Cor. 10:10)

    The prophets acknowledge their own ignorance of what they wrote, that it was not for themselves, but for the instruction of the Church, and especially for those residing at the time the two ends of the ages would over lapped, viz. the opening end of the Millennial age and the closing end of the Gospel age, i.e. during the harvest when the Lord of the harvest would be present.

    Living as we do at the end of the age during the final or seventh stage of the church (The number “seven” representing perfection and or completion); we now have at our disposal the combined knowledge and understanding of all seven stages of the church. Those who lived in the earlier stages of the church would have died to have the knowledge we now have at our disposal.

    But with knowledge likewise comes great responsibility, as it is written, "To whom much is given of him shall much be required." (Luke 12:48) The words of our Lord come to mind when he rebuked the much more enlightened residents of Capernaum because they refused to believe even after witnessing for themselves the various miracles he had performed.

    "But I tell you, it will be more bearable for Tyre and Sidon on the Day of Judgment than for you. And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted up to the skies? No, you will go down to the depths. If the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day" (Matt. 11:22, 23— NIV).

    But someone will say, ‘Yes, but we don’t have any of those miracles in which to witness and believe.’

    This is true, but we have something much greater than that, we not only have the presence of the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth, if we so avail ourselves, but we also have the complete written canon of scriptures. Likewise we live in the age in which many prophecies of old have been and are even now in the processes of fulfillment. So in essence we might say that we are witnesses of miracles, prophecy fulfilled.

    It is usual to begin the study of a book in the Bible at the beginning with verse 1 and progressing from that point. Revelation however is perhaps best approached differently.”

    Among the 13 chapters which form Section 1 of Revelation (1:9-14:5), Chapter 12, is one of the most complete units, thus being able to interpret it correctly is the key to interpreting the remainder of Revelation. It might even be wise for the student to begin with Chapter 12 and then work both directions (viz., Chapters 1 thru 11, and Chapters 14 thru 22) to understand the remainder of Revelation.”

    Thus we will begin our study with Chapter 12 of Revelation.

    If your desire here is for a smooth, fiction-style rendition you will be disappointed. As was stated in our blog post on “How to study the book of Revelation” our purpose is to satisfy the truth-seeker who desires details, explanations as to how we arrived at our interpretations and conclusions. Be it known from the start however that it is not our intention that we should convince any who have already given themselves over to the Adversary’s deceptions, concerning this chapter.

    Only those who possess true spiritual enlightenment, (the enlightenment of the Holy Spirit) will be able to grasp the true significance of this chapter, others will most likely continue to believe the various imaginings of men as taught by the church nominal.

    “Nevertheless there is always hope for those who have been led into the error of Christendom, indeed, it is our opinion that whoever in humility and meekness shall hereby find that his false view rested upon human misconceptions and misinterpretations will, at the same time, learn to trust hereafter less to his own and other men's imaginings, and, by faith, to grasp more firmly the Word of God, which is able to make wise unto salvation.”

    Allowances however are made for the Lord’s little ones, “babes in Christ” those who have not yet been weaned from the breast who spiritually speaking are still feeding upon the “milk of the word”. Revelation unfortunately consist primarily of the “meat of the word”, the “deep things” of the word of God, and is therefore more easily digested by those who by reason of use (study and practice) have had their senses exercised to discern both good (truth) and bad (error). Heb 5:13-14

    Thus it is for the sake of these we shall endeavor to proceed slowly, so as to thoroughly prove our conclusions based upon the word of God.

    Since the book of Revelation is a symbolic prophecy it will be necessary for us to take special note of the various symbols used. If something is fairly easy to explain we will deal with it here, however in some instances a more thorough examination of a word or phrase may prove necessary, thus rather than add it to this study we will present our interpretation of the word or phrase under our blog post, “How to study the book of Revelation”, with a connecting link taking you directly to the item.

    Continued with next post.
     
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  2. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again.
     
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    Come on Willie T don't say that now, let him have his fun of being a deliver of well crafted words which the collective "we" (royal or otherwise) have put together.
     
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  4. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Harvest 1874 ~

    While you appear to be presenting a genuine attempt to delve into the the Book of Revelations.....

    You have already revealed, the intent to interpret and your view that premises Revelations to simply be a Book of symbolic prophecy.

    I would seriously suggest to you...to READ:

    Heb 4:12
    2 Tim 2:7
    Rev 1:1
    Rev 1:2

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
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  5. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    A lot of work for nothing. And while this book is chock full of revelations, the title of the book is Revelation (Ἀποκάλυψις = Apokalupsis) from 1:1.

    1. Just like every other book of the Bible, Revelation is to be read and studied in its plain literal sense, notwithstanding the many symbols and metaphors used. They are generally explained and clarified.

    2. Revelation is generally chronological, not cyclic as some imagine. We begin in the first century and end up in the eternal state of the New Heavens and the New Earth.

    3. You will not find the word "church" or "churches" after chapter 3. That in itself is significant.
     
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  6. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    My spouse and I spent nearly 8 months nearly daily reading, studying, cross referencing, and praying about the Book of Revelation.

    The OT reveals basic knowledge.
    The NT reveals knowledge hidden from OT men.

    The Book of Revelation is exactly what it says;

    A RECORD of God, testimony of Jesus Christ.

    From God, to Jesus Christ, to His angel, to Jesus' Servants, through John, His servant.

    Gods RECORD, is paramount, and that WHICH is the Evidence, God Himself has been keeping Track of, Which APPLIES To His Creations, THAT, were given opportunity....

    And their Last Notice and Calling...

    TO Stand WITH God or AGAINST God...
    And What "THEY" chose.
    As well as their Habitats created For them.
    And What Shall, the END result Be For their choices.

    Very briefly....

    Rev 21:3 God Himself shall dwell with "them" that Choose Him and He Be their God.

    Rev 22:17. Last calling for those still living, to come.

    Rev 22:20 Too late, Door shut, Lord Jesus comes quickly.

    The Big picture is:
    Every man Knows natural born men shall physically die.
    Repeatedly it is taught, to not dally, while alive in ones flesh body....
    Hear, Read, Learn, Choose your Standing...
    (It "IS" a calling from the Lord, that He may "Prepare" a man for the End of days as we know them)
    No man knows the day or hour the Lord shall return.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2018
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  7. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Active Member

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    Revelation Chapter 12

    In this study we will be utilizing various Bible Student materials chief among which will be the “New Albany Notes on Revelation”, and “The Keys of Revelation”.

    Before beginning our examination of this Chapter in detail, it is VERY IMPORTANT to remember the symbolic nature of Revelation (1:1).

    The greatest source of error in understanding the symbols of Revelation is a too literal interpretation; it is read as though it were a statement of facts, instead of a statement of
    symbols
    .”

    Here is the KEY to understanding this Chapter:

    To have the proper perspective and interpretation of the drama unfolded in the 12th Chapter of Revelation, one must realize from the outset that, this chapter is the record of events as VIEWED IN OR THROUGH THE EYES OF ORTHODOXY (the nominal church, more specifically Papacy) as it was perceived by them, NOT as the true Church perceives it.

    The events were viewed (by the false church) as something wonderful, indeed as God’s overruling providential care in granting His professed Church an astounding victory over the world, the flesh, and the devil. That Constantine, the ruler of the mighty Roman Empire, would espouse Christianity and make it the religion of the realm was truly a surprising development. However instead of viewing the emperor’s nominal acceptance and adoption of Christianity as the religion of the empire in its proper light—that is, as being a most baneful and dangerous influence, as being a trap and an ensnarement of the true brotherhood—Christianity’s adherents, for the most part, considered this development a harbinger of better things to come and did not recognize it as an artifice and stratagem of the Adversary, (the Master Deceiver) who now would assume the role of an angel of light (Matt 4:8,9; John 5:43; 2 Cor 11:14).” "The Keys of Revelation", Page 293

    Papacy itself has applied many scriptures to itself that were in truth applicable only to the Christ, both the Head and body (i.e. the true Church), and thus has ever been the method of the Adversary through his greatest deception of all, the ANTICHRIST. But not all have been deceived, the Lord has always provided for his true followers.

    “Seeing as how the book of Revelation is considered a SYMBOLIC prophecy it behooves us that in order to properly understand this chapter that we understand the true significance and meanings of some of the key words used, most especially when they are applied symbolically. However we should not go to the extreme and assume that every single word is to be viewed as symbolic, some words or phrases may indeed be taken literally, while others may bare both a literal and symbolic meaning, it is up to the discriminating student of the Bible to seek for the true significance of any given word or phrase, by comparing scripture with scripture.”

    Now I know that some may already be familiar with the significance of some of these key words, but for the sake of those not so acquainted we shall be happy to explain, keeping in mind that not everyone grasps things as easily as others. My neighbor used to say to me, ‘Slow down and explain things to me as though I have only a third grade education’. We likewise need to keep in mind (1 Cor 2:14) in this regards.

    It is specifically because very little attention has been paid to the true significance and meaning of some of these key words that many have become confused and confounded over this particular chapter. I don’t believe it will be necessary to look at every single word just some of the ones which we believe may be causing some difficulties for some.

    One of the chief stumbling blocks for the majority of bible students is the misperception that the events mentioned in Chapter 12 begin in “heaven” (one of our “key words”), that this is the literal heavens, the abode of God where they erroneously envision a battle takes place between Michael and his angels and the red dragon (whom they believe to be Satan), and that eventually this dragon (Satan) is defeated and cast out of heaven down to the earth, this however we understand is not actually what transpires here, and it is this erroneously view which we hope to correct. Thus you will see the necessity of our breaking down the text for better clarification. We will address this particular key word shortly, but first let us begin with our opening text.

    Verse 1Now a great sign appeared in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun and with the moon under her feet and on her head a garland of twelve stars.”

    Now a great sign appeared in heaven

    The word “signStrong’s # 4592 is in the Greek seemion and has the significance of proof or evidence as illustrated in the following cases:

    And many other signs truly did Jesus.” (John 20:30)

    The Lord...granted signs and wonders to be done by their [Paul's and Barnabas'] hands.” (Acts 14:3)

    Tongues are for a sign...to them that believe not.” (1 Cor 14:22)

    Now as he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately saying, ‘Tell us when these things will be? And what will be the sign of your presence and of the end of the age?” (Matt 24:3)

    Hence, we read, “There appeared a great sign (evidence) in heaven”.

    Now the typical view (as held by the professing church) is that the “heavens” here referred to are the heavens in which God resides, the heavenly abode, and since this erroneous view is generally what has caused much of the confusion in regards to the interpretation of this Chapter we therefore believe a closer examination of the word heaven is in order.

    Many are not fully cognizance of its various meanings.

    Since this particular key word requires a bit more elaboration to fully comprehend its various applications we will present our findings under “Words and Phrases,” in our blog post, “How to study the book of Revelation”. Click on the link above to take you directly to the subject.

    Continued with next post.
     
  8. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    This is, I guess, entertaining, but I am just not a JW fan.
     
  9. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Eh, not a fan of the direction of this thread
    :rolleyes:

    Begin at the beginning...which sets the premise....!!

    And what men should Already KNOW, is a mans MIND can not interpret Gods WORD!!

    Paramount....2 Time 2:7
    ...the Lord give thee understanding...

    It's a Gift....
    Remembering, the Lord speaks spiritually to Quickened spirits of men....IN their Hearts...
    not their MINDS.

    People who refuse to Listen and Verify...
    God said:

    Ye are a stiffnecked people... :oops:

    Just sayin...

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  10. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    No, it isn't that in particular. I just don't care to read JW stuff.
     
  11. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    So, let me see if I get this straight. You're saying from the get-go that anyone that doesn't agree with your interpretation of Revelation is not possessing of "true spiritual enlightenment" and "won't be able to grasp it"...in other words, if we don't agree with you, we're dumb, wrong, and abandoned by the Spirit of God?

    Swell! Not sure why I'd continue reading, really. Almost sounds like spiritual extortion. "Fall in line or I'll proclaim spiritual hollowness over you!"
     
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  12. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    True Spiritual Enlightenment comes from God Not men.

    No.
    If ones enlightenment, interpretation, understanding does not "come from" the Spirit of God; it comes from men.

    If it comes from God, one is in agreement with God.

    If one, two, three, or thousands of men are in agreement with God, THEN those men are severally in agreement together with God.

    Always ones choice to continue hearing, reading, studying the Word of God or not.

    Continuing IS the preparation to receive Gods Spiritual enlightenment and understanding of His Word.

    Call it what you will. It is Gods design, His Will, and that which is Pleasing to Him.

    It is not ONLY men at stake. Men born in sin who have to desire to hear, learn, trust, believe, become converted, and continue ...
    To Receive Gods gift of His Understanding of His own Word....

    But also Gods created angels...all created holy; "by" and "with" Gods Word....(unlike mankind).

    But (like) mankind, created "without" the fullness of His understanding, "OF" His Word.

    Satan, a Devil, created holy, created with power......Yet "seriously" having an "understanding" his power, and his desire, that he could "RISE" above God, and "RULE" above God?

    Satan, trying to TEMPT the Lord, trying to "OFFER" the Lord "Land upon the Earth",
    AS IF, it was "his" to Give "anyone"?

    Satan, failing to "Understand", his "power" was given him FROM GOD?
    Satan, failing to "Understand", his "ability" to influence men in the World,
    Was given him FROM GOD?
    Satan, failing to "Understand", his "power" and his "ability" corrupted by "his own desires"....shall be CUT SHORT....shall be TAKEN AWAY....

    Extortion is to TAKE something BY FORCE.

    God removes "His Power", "His Life", out of "physical" things that become corrupt.

    It is Gods TO TAKE, at any given Time, He decides.

    The FACT IS: That which has Obtained "Spiritual Life" "FROM GOD", "NEVER" dies.

    Angels "ARE" Spiritual Life.
    They shall NEVER Die, yet MANY SHALL have their POWER removed, thus rendering THEM,
    POWERLESS, to reek havoc, and chaos toward and upon WHAT God Himself "restores" and "makes" Spiritually and Forever WHOLE and HOLY......and KEEPS them WHOLE and HOLY....BY and THROUGH HIS Power, He Himself, who IS Supreme Power.

    Men are NOT naturally born Spiritual.
    They, ARE naturally born, bodily IN SIN.
    They, ARE given SOUL LIFE, from God.
    They, Corrupt their SOUL, IN their Corrupt body.
    They, are VOID of Spiritual Life.

    THEY have OPPORTUNITY, to CHOOSE,
    to Spiritually DIE Bodily with Christ;
    to Spiritually HAVE their Soul Restored;
    to Spiritually HAVE their natural Spirit Reborn, to Everlasting Spiritual Life,
    to Receive Forever Gods Spirit/POWER within him,
    To Forever by KEPT "by" FREE FROM SIN/Corruption/Separation from God,
    BY Gods Power.

    A man WHO has chosen ^ THAT, has accomplished, BY and THROUGH God..
    A Bit of Enlightenment.

    So...then what? IS that it?

    For SOME, Yes. Men do not Lose their Freewill, because they have become a bit Enlightened.

    Men can Do nothing more, being content with their Salvation being secure.

    Men can Still teach and preach, "according to their understanding."

    Men can hear and adopt "other mens philosophies and understanding as their own".

    Men can Also continuing hearing, reading, AND ASK God Himself for His Understanding, which IS that man "receiving" MORE Enlightenment, FROM GOD.

    Men WHO follow ^ that path, become men WHO, are IN AGREEMENT TOGETHER, according to Gods Understanding of His Word.

    Such men Personlly Know, IF THEY have sought and received Gods Understanding of His Word......and Recognize if OTHER men have done the same.

    It is called....Knowing a man BY HIS FRUTIS.

    Sorry, but, men who begin by saying their intent is to Interpret scripture, immediately reveals THEIR FRUIT is Mindful, not Spiritual.

    True Spiritual Enlightenment, comes from Thee Holy Spirit God Himself.

    Fall in line "WITH" God....or one shall be "WITHOUT" God....a message from God Himself.

    The OT is FULL of examples of Knowledge of Precepts of MEN AGAINST GOD.

    The NT plainly reveals Knowledge ...

    Matt 12:30
    He that is NOT WITH ME, IS AGAINST ME.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  13. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Gotcha. I don't particularly read up on what "group" claims to believe what, or much care, about the "nametags".

    I highly doubt every single member of a particular "group" agrees with every single thing.

    God Bless,
    Taken
     
  14. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Active Member

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    Then sadly you're out of luck because this is not JW material, nor do the JW's interpret Revelation the same as Bible Students. It is evident you don't know much about the beliefs of the two groups save that which you have gleamed from the internet, most of which probably comes from either X-JW or anti-JW propaganda sites. These sites usually have an axe to grind and as reliable sources of information are suspect at best.

    Bible Students and JW's are two different groups, just because we share some similar beliefs on basic doctrines does not imply we share the same on the deep things of God's Word.

    Many Protestants denomination share similar beliefs with each other, some even with the Catholic church are we to assume because they share similar beliefs that they are all one in the same as you seem to believe in regards to Bible Students and JW's?

    What we present here is our view of Revelation as based upon our studies of the scriptures. If any differ that's their privilege they are free to start their own thread on the subject and present their view, which I'm certain they would proclaim is based on scripture as well.

    Our duty as representatives of the Lord's Word is only to present the truth as we see it, the sword of the spirit will do the rest, or as the Lord so states it, 'Let he who has an ear hear what the spirit is saying'.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  15. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Active Member

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    The scriptures are quite clear on this matter that only those possessed of the spirit can comprehend spiritually things, because they are spiritually discerned. If you are not spirit begotten then obviously you’re not going to be able to receive (to accept) the things of the spirit no matter how they are presented.

    However saying this it should be understood that there are those who are in possession of the spirit who are on different levels of understanding from "babes in Christ" to "youths" to the more mature, each is only able to receive (comprehend) to a certain limit, thus even among some of the Lord’s spirit begotten having been for the most part fed off the husk of the traditions and doctrines of the professing church for so long, they are not very well developed in spiritual discernment having had very little access to the true food, the truth. This is why we stated from the onset that we would precede slowly for their benefit.

    If you are not interested in this study that’s your prerogative, I’m sure you can find another thread on this site to 'tickle your ears', nevertheless for the sake of those who are interested in a study of Revelation we present this study.
     
  16. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Well, Harvest, since we live only about a half hour apart in adjacent towns, maybe we will find it convenient to get together one day to further discuss this.
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2018
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  17. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    It equates to the same thing. "I have the special enlightenment only God can give...this is it! If you don't agree with what I've written here you do not have the special enlightenment God gives!"

    Of course, one can (and does) question if said interpretation does, in fact, come from God. My issue is with the claim that it does, and that therefore everyone else cannot, does not and will not even be welcomed into the conversation if they see differently. Don't you see? He's setting it up from the get-go to dismiss those who disagree with him as "spiritually unenlightened". That way he does not have to find bible verses to disprove what they say, or even logic. All he needs to do is fall back on his clause of "you're not spiritually enlightened, because I am."
     
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  18. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Active Member

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    Could be my friend, Please understand I personally bare no ill will to any if they chose not to accept what we present here (we would hope that they would share the same should we chose not to accept their interpretation). Prophecy as you are well aware is a tricky subject at best and requires a lot study and prayer. Those things which are past are much easier of discernment then those things still yet to be fulfilled.

    Most of what is revealed in this particular Chapter of Revelation however is past and should be relatively easy to discern by the thoughtful student of the word if he or she would only apply themselves and try to set aside any preconceived ideas which they have learned through the traditions of men.

    The most important aspect to rightly understanding this particular prophecy is to not make the common mistake of viewing it from the wrong perspective.

    As we stated this chapter is the record of events as VIEWED IN OR THROUGH THE EYES OF ORTHODOXY (the nominal church, more specifically Papacy) as it was perceived by them, NOT as the true Church perceives it.

    If you keep this in mind its much easier to interpret it correctly.
     
  19. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    You have me chuckling with the "Orthodoxy" remark. You obviously have never read any of my posts concerning this subject.
     
  20. Harvest 1874

    Harvest 1874 Active Member

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    Where exactly did we make the claim as you say that this interpretation comes directly from God? We said nothing of the kind in fact we have made it abundantly clear that this study is from the Bible Students perspective that is as we view it from our studies of the book of Revelation.

    No one said anything about you not being able to present your position, the very reason I posted this particular study on the forum instead of on my blog post was so that others could present their viewpoint, comments and thoughts.

    Instead of engaging in fault finding in what others have to say, perhaps you should try adding something constructive and uplifting to the subject. If you disagree with something stated please by all means present your case.

    But understand this its not my job to disprove you, only to prove (by the scriptures) what I myself have to present. The Word of the Lord will prove whether something is true or not.

    "To the law and the testimony if they speak not according to this word there is no truth in them." Isa 8:20

    The final authority is the “law” and the “testimony” of the Word. They are the “yea” and the “amen” to any question that arises. We should listen only to counsel that is in harmony with God’s Word, not what pleases the ears of men.
     
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