to be and to do

[DPMartin]

All a born again is required to be is a up and coming and or future son of God, and all a born again is required to do is to share in the Father through the Son the sonship thereof.

if you notice, that is really all that Jesus did according to the gospels.

 

[2ndRateMind]

All a born again is required to be is a up and coming and or future son of God, and all a born again is required to do is to share in the Father through the Son the sonship thereof.

if you notice, that is really all that Jesus did according to the gospels.

The difference is, most of us can't legitimately claim our mothers are virgins. And our fathers are directly God. These claims to provenance seem to me to be what would make Jesus an element of the trinity, as proven and as His love demonstrated by His sacrifice.

Best wishes, 2RM.

 

[Curtis]

The difference is, most of us can't legitimately claim our mothers are virgins. And our fathers are directly God. These claims to provenance seem to me to be what would make Jesus an element of the trinity, as proven and as His love demonstrated by His sacrifice.

Best wishes, 2RM.

There’s so many scriptures regarding post salvation behavior that refute the do nothing after salvation paradigm, and this is one good example.

Peter explains that the believer has to make their calling and election sure, by adding to their faith the things he lists, one of which is Godliness.

He makes it clear we must do that so we won’t be unfruitful, which is another way to say that adding to our faith the things he listed, is bearing fruit.

This ties in with Jesus telling us that He’s the vine, and we are the branches, and that any branch that does not bear fruit is cut off, and ends up burned.

Therefore we are required to bear fruit - it’s not an option - and doing so isn’t salvation by works of righteousness of the law of Moses, but obedience to Jesus.

Yes, Peter says we must MAKE our calling and ELECTION sure, by ADDING to our faith the FRUIT of virtue, Godliness, and love (charity), and he says that IF WE DO that, we won’t FALL, and we will have an entrance into heaven.

2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness (living a righteous life);

2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitfulin the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Peter 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.

2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

That our election isn’t SURE until we MAKE it sure, by adding fruit to our faith, and will fall if we don’t make it sure, and fail to enter into the kingdom of heaven, is fatal to OSAS easy believism.

 

[Truman]

Becoming a disciple involves our participation. It doesn't happen by itself.
Like a baby, we need to be fed, trained, instructed, disciplined, and with time, we grow.

 

[DPMartin]

The difference is, most of us can't legitimately claim our mothers are virgins. And our fathers are directly God. These claims to provenance seem to me to be what would make Jesus an element of the trinity, as proven and as His love demonstrated by His sacrifice.

Best wishes, 2RM.

the only begotten is the only begotten but you seem to miss the fact that Jesus came to restore us to the Life lost at the garden:

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


and that Life is received through and in the Life of Christ Jesus. hence the "born again" and that Life that is the Life Jesus has, as John says:

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 

[DPMartin]

Becoming a disciple involves our participation. It doesn't happen by itself.
Like a baby, we need to be fed, trained, instructed, disciplined, and with time, we grow.

are you saying that, i'm discarding what you've said here?

 

[Truman]

are you saying that, i'm discarding what you've said here?

I think I was adding to what Curtis said. Yeah, I was.

 

[Curtis]

the only begotten is the only begotten but you seem to miss the fact that Jesus came to restore us to the Life lost at the garden:

Luk 3:38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.


and that Life is received through and in the Life of Christ Jesus. hence the "born again" and that Life that is the Life Jesus has, as John says:

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

And Hebrews 3 warns the brethren, to avoid hardening their hearts through the deceitfulness of sin, and thus DEPART from the living God.

OSAS says that after the dog purges himself by vomiting, the dog can never get the illness back again, but Jesus, who gave us this graphic illustration, says some dogs go back and lap up their vomit again.

And Peter said those who are enlightened and come to the knowledge of the truth, and escape the world’s corruption, but who turn back to it again, are just like the filthy pig who was covered from the muck and filth from the slop-hole he used to wallow in, who after coming out and being washed clean, jumps right back into the slop-hole again.

 

[DPMartin]

And Hebrews 3 warns the brethren, to avoid hardening their hearts through the deceitfulness of sin, and thus DEPART from the living God.

OSAS says that after the dog purges himself by vomiting, the dog can never get the illness back again, but Jesus, who gave us this graphic illustration, says some dogs go back and lap up their vomit again.

And Peter said those who are enlightened and come to the knowledge of the truth, and escape the world’s corruption, but who turn back to it again, are just like the filthy pig who was covered from the muck and filth from the slop-hole he used to wallow in, who after coming out and being washed clean, jumps right back into the slop-hole again.

the binder is to be faithful. what you post here is no different then the parable of the sower. so in the cases you've posted some seed falls on undesirable ground, getting undesirable results. but if it falls on the ground that is rich (faithful) its not a problem in the sight of God because He is looking for and restoring to himself the faithful. and only the faithful can do as said in the OP, correct?

the life of Christ is to restore the faithful not the unfaithful. hence the requirement of belief and trust in the Word of God. so, if one isn't faithful in the first place, then what makes you think they were saved in the first place.

 

[Curtis]

the binder is to be faithful. what you post here is no different then the parable of the sower. so in the cases you've posted some seed falls on undesirable ground, getting undesirable results. but if it falls on the ground that is rich (faithful) its not a problem in the sight of God because He is looking for and restoring to himself the faithful. and only the faithful can do as said in the OP, correct?

the life of Christ is to restore the faithful not the unfaithful. hence the requirement of belief and trust in the Word of God. so, if one isn't faithful in the first place, then what makes you think they were saved in the first place.

The further refutation of unconditional eternal security, is found in scripture such as Hebrews 6,:4-8 which is unequivocally talking about those who were born again, because they were made partakers of the Holy Spirit - which only happens at salvation - yet they fell completely away from the faith into total apostasy (fell away - parapipto- apostatized), and since they lost their faith completely, they can’t be renewed again into repentance, (any more than you could get an atheist to repent), and their unbelief in effect is crucifying Jesus again, since unbelief is why they crucified Jesus in the first place.


This falls right in line with the warning from Hebrews 3:12-15 to the brethren about guarding against acquiring an evil heart of unbelief, due to deception that comes from sin, and then departing from the living God.


Living sinfully eventually hardens the heart into unbelief, and when faith is fallen away from, a believer departs from the living God.


And Hebrews 6 falls in line with Jesus teaching us that some believe, but only for awhile, and then fall away. in Luke 8:


In Luke 8. Jesus tells the parable of the sower who sows the seed of the word of God.


Some seed sown lands on a rock. The seed GROWS, and thus results in new life, but then it withers and dies.


Jesus in the example of the seed sown on a rock, shows that some people BELIEVE for a while, but then FALL AWAY.


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed...


Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, *receive the word with joy*; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.


Notice above, they *received the word with joy*


To receive the word with joy, is to become a follower of Jesus Christ:


1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.


Some believe for a while, then fall away said Jesus - OSAS is thus falsified.

The brethren can harden their heart by sinning and depart from God- OSAS is falsified.


James 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,


Jas 5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

 

[Truman]

Once one's spirit is reborn, the process of transforming the inner man should start, according to the word and the Spirit.

 

[DPMartin]

The further refutation of unconditional eternal security, is found in scripture such as Hebrews 6,:4-8 which is unequivocally talking about those who were born again, because they were made partakers of the Holy Spirit - which only happens at salvation - yet they fell completely away from the faith into total apostasy (fell away - parapipto- apostatized), and since they lost their faith completely, they can’t be renewed again into repentance, (any more than you could get an atheist to repent), and their unbelief in effect is crucifying Jesus again, since unbelief is why they crucified Jesus in the first place.


This falls right in line with the warning from Hebrews 3:12-15 to the brethren about guarding against acquiring an evil heart of unbelief, due to deception that comes from sin, and then departing from the living God.


Living sinfully eventually hardens the heart into unbelief, and when faith is fallen away from, a believer departs from the living God.


And Hebrews 6 falls in line with Jesus teaching us that some believe, but only for awhile, and then fall away. in Luke 8:


In Luke 8. Jesus tells the parable of the sower who sows the seed of the word of God.


Some seed sown lands on a rock. The seed GROWS, and thus results in new life, but then it withers and dies.


Jesus in the example of the seed sown on a rock, shows that some people BELIEVE for a while, but then FALL AWAY.


Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed...


Luk 8:6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.


Luk 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, *receive the word with joy*; and these have no root, which FOR A WHILE BELIEVE, and in time of temptation FALL AWAY.


Notice above, they *received the word with joy*


To receive the word with joy, is to become a follower of Jesus Christ:


1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.


Some believe for a while, then fall away said Jesus - OSAS is thus falsified.

The brethren can harden their heart by sinning and depart from God- OSAS is falsified.


James 5:19 My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back,


Jas 5:20 let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

you are not listening at all are you?


by grace through faith, hence the faithful survive. its not faith if its not faithful. just as James in so many words was saying the same thing as in its not faith if there's not works of that faith, hence acts that are faithful.

the Lord God proved the children of Israel not by their declaration of agreement (in Christians cases, declaration of faith), but by their faithfulness when gathering the mana, of which in many cases only He would see. God's not stupid, why do you talk as though He is?

 

[Curtis]

you are not listening at all are you?


by grace through faith, hence the faithful survive. its not faith if its not faithful. just as James in so many words was saying the same thing as in its not faith if there's not works of that faith, hence acts that are faithful.

the Lord God proved the children of Israel not by their declaration of agreement (in Christians cases, declaration of faith), but by their faithfulness when gathering the mana, of which in many cases only He would see. God's not stupid, why do you talk as though He is?

You need to listen,yourself, to all Paul wrote, because it’s not lack of faith that can send a believer to hell.

 

[DPMartin]

You need to listen,yourself, to all Paul wrote, because it’s not lack of faith that can send a believer to hell.

you don't even know what faith is do you?

 

[GEN2REV]

All a born again is required to be is a up and coming and or future son of God, and all a born again is required to do is to share in the Father through the Son the sonship thereof.

if you notice, that is really all that Jesus did according to the gospels.

"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man."
Ecclesiastes 12:13