Trump to help Jewish People Build their 3RD. Temple??

[Waiting on him]

Informed to know THOSE who have persecuted the Lord Gods Faithful SHALL be Subject to Gods Wrath and Vengeance and Gods Separation, and they shall WAIT, separated FROM God and His People, UNTIL the DAY of the Lord and His JUDGEMENT.
Glad to know...? Uh yes!

Would mercy here be a more excellent way? Would the Apostle Paul have this view?

 

[Taken]

Would mercy here be a more excellent way? Would the Apostle Paul have this view?

Hello Waiting ~

I would say according to the Big Picture;
1) The Lord God is thee Supreme God, creator and maker of all things.
2) God has revealed His Word.
3) God has revealed the Consequences for believing/trusting Him and His Word.
4) God has revealed the Consequences for NOT believing/trusting Him and His Word.
5) Every created Person has the option of Freewill to believe/trust whatever they elect.

Gods MERCY ~ ARE His Revelations, so man absolutely has the Opertunity to Know about Him and Freely Chosse Him, or not.

Scripture is clear; Those Who heartfully elect to freely Choose God and His Word; shall have the Consequence of Eternal Spiritual Life with thee Lord God forever.

I find Gods MERCY for those who Reject thee Lord God, IS that they shall NOT BE Spiritually Quickened, and thus shall NOT have FOREVER Life, and shall NOT be forever WITH thee Lord God.
And thus they shall receive Exactally what "they chose"....
Which I find the Supreme "JUSTNESS" of Thee Lord God, to give each what "they" wanted.

Do you have something else in mind that God should do, for those who choose to Not believe or trust God?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Waiting on him]

Hello Waiting ~

I would say according to the Big Picture;
1) The Lord God is thee Supreme God, creator and maker of all things.
2) God has revealed His Word.
3) God has revealed the Consequences for believing/trusting Him and His Word.
4) God has revealed the Consequences for NOT believing/trusting Him and His Word.
5) Every created Person has the option of Freewill to believe/trust whatever they elect.

Gods MERCY ~ ARE His Revelations, so man absolutely has the Opertunity to Know about Him and Freely Chosse Him, or not.

Scripture is clear; Those Who heartfully elect to freely Choose God and His Word; shall have the Consequence of Eternal Spiritual Life with thee Lord God forever.

I find Gods MERCY for those who Reject thee Lord God, IS that they shall NOT BE Spiritually Quickened, and thus shall NOT have FOREVER Life, and shall NOT be forever WITH thee Lord God.
And thus they shall receive Exactally what "they chose"....
Which I find the Supreme "JUSTNESS" of Thee Lord God, to give each what "they" wanted.

Do you have something else in mind that God should do, for those who choose to Not believe or trust God?

Glory to God,
Taken

I pray for mercy for all. I’m sure Paul had this same view, who wasted the church in ignorance and unbelief.

 

[Taken]

I pray for mercy for all.

I don't pray for it. My point was; I trust mercy for all is already foretold by the Word of God.

I do not find that equal to all will be saved, because Scripture does not say that.

Nor does Scripture say men will be Quickened with Forever Life "while also" Forever separated from God.
The Mercy of God, is they will NOT be given Forever Life.

I’m sure Paul had this same view, who wasted the church in ignorance and unbelief.

No clue what that means.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Waiting on him]

Kinda like that old yeller movie... take em out back and shoot them in the head?

 

[CoreIssue]

Kinda like that old yeller movie... take em out back and shoot them in the head?

Old Yeller had rabies.

 

[Waiting on him]

Old Yeller had rabies.

Yea, he was sick too. Difference is no one could heal him.

 

[Waiting on him]

Who is the unmercifull servant?

 

[Waiting on him]

Did Stephen say take them all out back and shoot em in the head?

 

[CoreIssue]

Yea, he was sick too. Difference is no one could heal him.

Once infected there is no cure.

Ever seen an animal with rabies?

They foam at the mouth and just take off running straight attacking anything that gets in their way.

Growing up on a farm the response by farmers and police was a bullet. There is no other option.

 

[Waiting on him]

Sure

Once infected there is no cure.

Ever seen an animal with rabies?

They foam at the mouth and just take off running straight attacking anything that gets in their way.

Growing up on a farm the response by farmers and police was a bullet. There is no other option.

I know, God also could’ve righteously pronounced us all rabid!

 

[CoreIssue]

Sure

I know, God also could’ve righteously pronounced us all rabid!

The difference being he has a cure.

 

[Waiting on him]

The difference being he has a cure.

Mercy.

 

[Taken]

Kinda like that old yeller movie... take em out back and shoot them in the head?

whelp, never saw that old teller movie...and don't see Paul teaching that, so still at a loss of your point.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Waiting on him]

Informed to know THOSE who have persecuted the Lord Gods Faithful SHALL be Subject to Gods Wrath and Vengeance and Gods Separation, and they shall WAIT, separated FROM God and His People, UNTIL the DAY of the Lord and His JUDGEMENT.
Glad to know...? Uh yes!

I misunderstood apparently. It seemed as if you were saying you were glad to know people would receive Gods wrath.

 

[Taken]

I misunderstood apparently. It seemed as if you were saying you were glad to know people would receive Gods wrath.

Whoops. No.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[Naomi25]

Judgement? The point I was speaking of was Separation; not Judgement.

Not sure of your point.

Where is there any QUOTES speaking of Christians in Revelations?

Well, there are the obvious one in all the letters to the Churches, but I'll skip those.

Revelation 8:4 - and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.Revelation 11:18 - The nations raged, but your wrath came, and the time for the dead to be judged, and for rewarding your servants, the prophets and saints, and those who fear your name, both small and great, and for destroying the destroyers of the earth.”Revelation 13:7 - Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,Revelation 13:10 - If anyone is to be taken captive, to captivity he goes; if anyone is to be slain with the sword, with the sword must he be slain. Here is a call for the endurance and faith of the saints.Revelation 14:12 - Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.Revelation 16:6 - For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink. It is what they deserve!”Revelation 17:6 - And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her, I marveled greatly.Revelation 18:20 - Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, for God has given judgment for you against her!”Revelation 18:24 - And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all who have been slain on earth.”Revelation 19:8 - it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.Revelation 20:9 - And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,

And? You make it clear you are a Christian and Expect to be present on Earth during Gods Wrath..
So?
How do you respond?

The wrath that is coming upon the earth is the judgement of God...the judgement of unbelievers. In otherwords, when Christ returns, Matt 25 tells us 'then' he will sit on his throne...at this point Judgement falls on the nations. 2 Peter 3 tells us that at this time, at Christ's coming, the elements will burn. Judgement comes to all things. But this is final, end time judgement. And as children of God, we escape end time judgement; we are secure in Christ.
The increased 'birth pains' of the end days are not God's 'wrath' that as Christians we must fear being present for, or thinking we must be Raptured out of, they are the contractions of the next age. Judgement comes when this age ends and before then next starts.

What Scriptures Notify you, that any person IN Christ SHALL be subject to Gods Wrath that:

Matt 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Can you answer, WHAT Scripture teaches that ANY man IN Christ...shall be subject to thee "GREAT TRIBULATION" foretold in Matt 24:21?

Notice how the "wrath of God" is spoken about in direct constrast with our salvation?

Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. -John 3:36

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. -Romans 1:18

Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. -Romans 5:9

For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these the wrath of God is coming. -Colossians 3:3–6

So...not only does scripture suggest that this 'wrath of God' is, in point of fact, an end time judgement for those who do not believe (like the lake of fire), but we are also told that it is being stored up to be revealed on a specific day:

But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God's righteous judgment will be revealed. -Romans 2:5

LOL ~
Bother me that I have Comfort IN THE Lord, every single day of my natural life...? Uh no!

Bother me that I am Prepared IN THE Lord, to be SEPARATED BEFORE Matt 24:21 comes into fruition...? Uh no!

Glad to know THEE Lord God, has a perfect Plan in the end days, to Teach the Tribes of ISRAEL of Christ, that they shall BE SAVED out of the days of THEE Great Tribulation.
Glad..? Uh yes!

Informed to know THEE Lord God, SHALL "Separate" and TAKE UP unto Himself, ALL, that ARE and BECOME "Faithful" to Him.
Glad..? Uh yes!

Informed to know THOSE who have persecuted the Lord Gods Faithful SHALL be Subject to Gods Wrath and Vengeance and Gods Separation, and they shall WAIT, separated FROM God and His People, UNTIL the DAY of the Lord and His JUDGEMENT.
Glad to know...? Uh yes!

That's fantastic....good for you! But...what would you say to the Christian in the ME who just watched his son beheaded, and that head kicked around like a football, because of his stand for his faith? What would you say to the Christians in NK who, when refuse to denounce Christ (which would still see them in a death camp anyway) are forced to watch their children hanged, and then are rolled over by a steamroller, alive?
Do they think, "yipee, at least I'll be out of here before Matt 24, because that will REALLY suck"? Or, in the midst of their suffering for Christ NOW, do they lean on the only one who CAN give strength...in any hardship and persecution?
I think the line we differ on here, is what differentiates between worldly persecution and satanic oppression, and suffering to be had because of "the wrath of God"....which you believe will be poured out on the earth in a series of disasters so profound that even the faithful will be affected.
But here's the thing: even permitting that the bible DOES teach that God's wrath comes IN that form, in the last few years before his return, you are still making some assumptions. The first assumption is that God could not or would not protect us from his sent 'natural disasters'. It is not without precedent, after all. Noah was protected from the flood. The three Jewish men protect within the flame. If God has promised no 'wrath' will touch us, then none of that particular wrath will. The second assumption is this: you claim it is the 'wrath' that we are to escape, and yet most of the talk of hardship and death that Christians must face if 'left behind' comes, naturally, from persecution. In otherwords....not from these 'wrath' judgements of God at all, but from the ungodly and satanic forces on earth. And those thing? Those things we are NOT promised an escape from.

No. I totally get what you are teaching. You have made it perfectly clear, that you Believe those Converted IN Christ Are Subject to Gods Wrath, during the Great Tribulation.

And I totally Disagree with you.
And have NOT seen you present ONE Scripture that supports your position.

Glory to God,
Taken

No. Either you are not taking the time to actually read and understand what I am saying, or you're unable to comprehend it. I'm not advocating that Christians are 'subject to God's wrath' at all, that is just a plain misrepresentation of everything I've been saying, no getting round it.

 

[Taken]

Naomi25 ~

My point was about the "Separation" of those IN Christ from those NOT IN Christ.

I believe all who have or will come into Belief IN Christ, Become MADE RIGHTEOUS, by the Power of God.

I believe THAT SEPARATION of THOSE IN CHRIST OCCURS WHEN JESUS "DESCENDS FROM Heaven"...
TO the Clouds; and WHILE Jesus IS IN THE CLOUDS, He calls UP TO HIM, THOSE IN CHRIST
BEFORE the Lamb BEGINS His Wrath Upon the Earth and those who Unrighteously have REJECTED HIM.

I believe THAT SEPARATION Occurs BEFORE the Wrath of the Lamb and the Wrath of God upon the Earth and the UNRighteous.

You seem to be advocating;
That Men IN Christ ARE made Righteous.
That RIGHTEOUS men WILL be ON the Earth during the Wrath of the Lamb and during the Wrath of God.

IS that correct?

IF not, where shall the Righteous in Christ be?

IF so, What shall they be doing?
If so, How shall they be AVOIDING being Subject to Wrath upon the Earth?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Naomi25]

Naomi25 ~

My point was about the "Separation" of those IN Christ from those NOT IN Christ.

I believe all who have or will come into Belief IN Christ, Become MADE RIGHTEOUS, by the Power of God.

I believe THAT SEPARATION of THOSE IN CHRIST OCCURS WHEN JESUS "DESCENDS FROM Heaven"...
TO the Clouds; and WHILE Jesus IS IN THE CLOUDS, He calls UP TO HIM, THOSE IN CHRIST
BEFORE the Lamb BEGINS His Wrath Upon the Earth and those who Unrighteously have REJECTED HIM.

I believe THAT SEPARATION Occurs BEFORE the Wrath of the Lamb and the Wrath of God upon the Earth and the UNRighteous.

You seem to be advocating;
That Men IN Christ ARE made Righteous.
That RIGHTEOUS men WILL be ON the Earth during the Wrath of the Lamb and during the Wrath of God.

IS that correct?

IF not, where shall the Righteous in Christ be?

IF so, What shall they be doing?
If so, How shall they be AVOIDING being Subject to Wrath upon the Earth?

Glory to God,
Taken

I'm not exactly sure what I HAVE been saying it getting through. How about this: when something horrible happens now; say, a terrible earthquake, and lots of people die...including Christians...how do we, the Church, see that tragedy?
Do we point to it and say "behold! The wrath of God on the unrighteous". And...oh dear, those poor Christians who suffered...God must not really love them at all.
No...the biblical approach to such things is more even handed. We live in a fallen world and a world in which Satanic forces operate. Sometimes that plays itself out in natural disasters and sometimes that falls upon the just as well as the unjust. What shall we say then? That God should have protected his own? That he should have stopped the earthquake? That he should stop the sickness, death, persecution, satanic oppression? Why? Did he not tell us that in this world we would experience suffering and hardship?
Do we not, as we bury our dead, say that in truth, they have conquered? That they did not bow under the weight of this world, but stood strong and true for Christ and are now recieving their crown and reward "well done, good and faithful servant!"
There's a quote by Bauckham I love:
"When the beast puts the martyrs to death, who is the real victor? The answer, in Revelation, depends on whether one sees the matter from an earthly or a heavenly perspective. From the earthly perspective it is obvious that the beast has defeated the martyrs...the apocolyptic visions, however, reveal that from a heavenly perspective things look quite different. From this perspective the martyrs are the real victors. To be faithful in bearing the witness of Jesus even to the point of death is not be become a helpless victim of th beast, but to take the field against him and win."
So...I suppose my point is this: the bible, often when speaking of wrath that the unjust will suffer, is actually speaking of hell. But as for things that might 'come upon the earth'...things that God allows, things that the fall brings with it. And Christians are "subject to wrath" in that they are in the direct path of what God is sending, any more than they are the earthquake or tornado or car crash now. But God uses those things to grow us, and to have us take a stand for him. The perfect picture for this, I think, is the Church in persecuted Countries. They are so vibrant and alive! Christians who weather suffering often come through with a stronger faith. And it's not punishment or wrath, it's loving discipline or steering by God to bring us closer to him, because at the end of it, that is the MOST important thing in life.

Consider him who endured from sinners such hostility against himself, so that you may not grow weary or fainthearted. In your struggle against sin you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
“My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord,
nor be weary when reproved by him.
For the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.”
It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, but he disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness. For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
Therefore lift your drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for your feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. -Hebrews 12:3–13

 

[Taken]

I'm not exactly sure what I HAVE been saying it getting through. How about this: when something horrible happens now; say, a terrible earthquake, and lots of people die...including Christians...how do we, the Church, see that tragedy?

Tragic ~ yes
Signs ~ yes
Gods Wrath ~ no

Do we point to it and say "behold! The wrath of God on the unrighteous".

No

And...oh dear, those poor Christians who suffered...

Sure, and non-Christians as well.

God must not really love them at all.

Not so.

No...the biblical approach to such things is more even handed. We live in a fallen world and a world in which Satanic forces operate. Sometimes that plays itself out in natural disasters and sometimes that falls upon the just as well as the unjust.

Agree.

What shall we say then?

Snippets "signs" of how God will destroy the with the earth.

Gen 6
[13] And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them

with the earth.[/B]

Matt 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

That God should have protected his own?

But He has protected them from Eternal Death.

That he should have stopped the earthquake? That he should stop the sickness, death, persecution, satanic oppression?

No.

Why? Did he not tell us that in this world we would experience suffering and hardship?

True. No dispute.

Do we not, as we bury our dead, say that in truth, they have conquered? That they did not bow under the weight of this world, but stood strong and true for Christ and are now recieving their crown and reward "well done, good and faithful servant!"

Sure. "IF" they were a faithful servant.

So...I suppose my point is this: the bible, often when speaking of wrath that the unjust will suffer, is actually speaking of hell.

I disagree.

Wrath of God is UPON the FLESH.
FLESH is NOT in Hell.
SOULS are in Hell.

Flesh upon the Earth DURING the "SIGNS" of wild Weather....Diseases...Hardships...

Affects the FLESH of men ...
1) a man IN Christ;
The Lord IS WITH the man THROUGH
The Hardships.
2) a man NOT IN Chirst;
Is on his own to suffer the Hardships without the COMFORT of the Lord.

But as for things that might 'come upon the earth'...things that God allows, things that the fall brings with it.

And Christians are "subject to wrath" in that they are in the direct path of what God is sending,

DISAGREE. CONVERTED Christians are "NOT SUBJECT to Gods WRATH.

1 Thes 5
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

1 Thes 1
[10] And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

You appear to have CHANGED the meaning of Gods WRATH and then claim the CONVERTED are SUBJECT to endure Gods WRATH.

Signs are ISOLATED "previews" of Gods Power.

The WRATH of God affected the whole World, in Noah's Day, with but a few Mortals Saved.

The WRATH of God Shall affect the whole World in the end days Tribulation, with but a few Mortals Saved.

Matt 24
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

God Bless,
Taken