Understanding The Great Trib

[teamventure]

@teamventure Seems hard to see how the church can go through the Great Tribulation...

I agree. I was referring to tribulation saints who get saved after the rapture.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree. I was referring to tribulation saints who get saved after the rapture.

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by the C.I. Scofield reference bible 1909

 

[Davy]

Matthew 25:v. 34 and 41

34 Then shall the King -JESUS- say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the KINGDOM PREPARED
for you from the foundation of the world:

41 Then shall JESUS say also unto them on the left hand, DEPART FROM ME, ye CURSED, into everlasting FIRE, prepared for the Devil and his messengers (Example: 2Corinthians 11:v.13-15.And also those which were selling oil, even without have it-Matt.25:v.8-13)

We all note how your Bible does not have the Book of Revelation in it, since you keep failing to update those above events with how Jesus showed in Revelation 20 that He will FIRST REIGN OVER ALL THE LEFT HAND GOATS for a "thousand years" before they perish in the "lake of fire".

 

[Davy]

I agree. I was referring to tribulation saints who get saved after the rapture.

But God's Word does not teach any such thing, because the "caught up" event of 1 Thessalonians 4 will only happen at the END of the tribulation. That is when Jesus said He comes to gather His saints...

Matt 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And He shall send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
KJV

 

[teamventure]

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by the C.I. Scofield reference bible 1909

Sir, that is a can of old worms

 

[Truth7t7]

Sir, that is a can of old worms

I agree, a pre-trib rapture is a can of old worms

 

[teamventure]

I agree, a pre-trib rapture is a can of old worms

I agree, an older can of worms that J.Darby.

 

[Truth7t7]

I agree, an older can of worms that J.Darby.

I Disagree, John N. Darby 1830's is the modern father of a pre-trib rapture

Wikipwdia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[1] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[2]

 

[teamventure]

I Disagree, John N. Darby 1830's is the modern father of a pre-trib rapture

Wikipwdia: John Nelson Darby (18 November 1800 – 29 April 1882) was an Anglo-Irish Bible teacher, one of the influential figures among the original Plymouth Brethren and the founder of the Exclusive Brethren. He is considered to be the father of modern Dispensationalism and Futurism. Pre-tribulation rapture theology was popularized extensively in the 1830s by John Nelson Darby and the Plymouth Brethren,[1] and further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible.[2]

So your proof is a wikipedia article? With that we could also prove atheism.

 

[Truth7t7]

So your proof is a wikipedia article? With that we could also prove atheism.

Will you deny John N. Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture, please post your resources, waiting?

 

[teamventure]

Will you deny John N. Darby is the father of the pre-trib rapture, please post your resources, waiting?

Early saints way before Darby taught the rapture was imminent.

Clement of Rome
Pseudo-Barnabas
Irenaeus of Lyon
Pseudo-Ephraem

This is common knowledge now amongst scholars and your John Darby regergitation is just propaganda.

Source: The Rapture: A Pre-Darby Rapture | Truth & Tidings

 

[Truth7t7]

Early saints way before Darby taught the rapture was imminent.

Clement of Rome
Pseudo-Barnabas
Irenaeus of Lyon
Pseudo-Ephraem

This is common knowledge now amongst scholars and your John Darby regergitation is just propaganda.

Source: The Rapture: A Pre-Darby Rapture | Truth & Tidings

Pseudo-Ephraem was the invention of Cameron Rhodes, a teacher in Hurst Texas from the unaccredited Tyndale Theological Seminary

I'm waiting for your posted citations of Clement, Iranaeus, and Pseudo Barnabas

My study finds that both Clement and Iranaeus saw the church present on earth to be eyewitnesses of the man of sin or antichrist

 

[teamventure]

Pseudo-Ephraem was the invention of Cameron Rhodes, a teacher in Hurst Texas from the unaccredited Tyndale Theological Seminary

I'm waiting for your posted citations of Clement, Iranaeus, and Pseudo Barnabas

My study finds that both Clement and Iranaeus saw the church present on earth to be eyewitnesses of the man of sin or antichrist

It's all in the link I provided to you.

And the John Darby argument is trite and illogical. Because someone taught something doesn't proove it false. It's a red herring that distracts from the real discussion. Please stop with the propaganda.

 

[teamventure]

Pseudo-Ephraem was the invention of Cameron Rhodes, a teacher in Hurst Texas from the unaccredited Tyndale Theological Seminary

Says the guy who also says the pretrib rapture was made up by J.Darby.
So your defense is you just take scripture and history and claim it's made up. Lol. Big smiles.

 

[Taken]

No such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's the invention of John N. Darby 1830's and promoted by the C.I. Scofield reference bible 1909

Darby Irrelevant-

Do you believe Wrath occurs during the Tribulation?

 

[Taken]

Pseudo-Ephraem was the invention of Cameron Rhodes, a teacher in Hurst Texas from the unaccredited Tyndale Theological Seminary

I'm waiting for your posted citations of Clement, Iranaeus, and Pseudo Barnabas

My study finds that both Clement and Iranaeus saw the church present on earth to be eyewitnesses of the man of sin or antichrist

Philosophies of men - Irrelevant

Where does Scripture teach the Church is present during the Tribulation?

 

[Truth7t7]

Darby Irrelevant-

Do you believe Wrath occurs during the Tribulation?

What occurs during the tribulation?

 

[Taken]

What occurs during the tribulation?

QUESTION...
Do you believe Wrath occurs during the Tribulation?

Your question response does not answer the question.
Try again.

 

[Truth7t7]

Philosophies of men - Irrelevant

Where does Scripture teach the Church is present during the Tribulation?

The scripture clearly teaches the church will be present on earth during the tribulation, signs sun, moon, heavens shaken

When the church witnesses these events "Look Up" the return of Jesus is near, redemption draws nigh

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[Taken]

The scripture clearly teaches the church will be present on earth during the tribulation, signs sun, moon, heavens shaken

Repeating what you SAY applies to the Church, is not Scriptural evidence what you SAY applies to the Church.

When the church witnesses these events "Look UUp"the return of Jesus is near

You have not quoted any Scripture that Identifies the Church.

Luke 21:25-28KJV
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

You are quoting a Scripture of men ON EARTH, waiting for their Redemption.
Men “IN” Christ are Already Redeemed.