Urgent warning about Donald Trump

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What is YOUR definition of bishop?
Someone with a flock of sheep in a bishopric. Bishops are settled down. Originally they were not supposed to move around. The First Council of Nicea emphasized that idea, saying bishops should not be moved about. The shepherd should stay with his flock. Only Apostles could move around and establish bishoprics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen and 4Jesus

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You seem to enjoy being difficult. Even after finding out we agree, you want to be critical. What's with that?
Your questions are difficult to decipher since they lack logic......that's what's with that.

Glad we can agree that neither of us want our children to be defiled.
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Someone with a flock of sheep in a bishopric. Bishops are settled down. Originally they were not supposed to move around. The First Council of Nicea emphasized that idea, saying bishops should not be moved about. The shepherd should stay with his flock. Only Apostles could move around and establish bishoprics.
Your theory is that Scripture says that bishops are to be married. You then define bishops as being settled down and married. Sooooo where does Scripture back up that theory?


What canon 15 of Nicaea said is that "neither bishop, elder, nor deacon shall pass from city to city." It does NOT say that bishops should not be moved about.

an overseer. In apostolic times, it is quite manifest that there was no difference as to order between bishops and elders or presbyters ( Acts 20:17-28 ; 1 Peter 5:1 1 Peter 5:2 ; Phil 1:1 ; 1 Timothy 3 ). The term bishop is never once used to denote a different office from that of elder or presbyter. These different names are simply titles of the same office, "bishop" designating the function, namely, that of oversight, and "presbyter" the dignity appertaining to the office. Christ is figuratively called "the bishop [episcopos] of souls" ( 1 Peter 2:25 ).

Your definition
of bishop does not match up with Scripture.
 

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your theory is that Scripture says that bishops are to be married. You then define bishops as being settled down and married. Sooooo where does Scripture back up that theory?


What canon 15 of Nicaea said is that "neither bishop, elder, nor deacon shall pass from city to city." It does NOT say that bishops should not be moved about.

an overseer. In apostolic times, it is quite manifest that there was no difference as to order between bishops and elders or presbyters ( Acts 20:17-28 ; 1 Peter 5:1 1 Peter 5:2 ; Phil 1:1 ; 1 Timothy 3 ). The term bishop is never once used to denote a different office from that of elder or presbyter. These different names are simply titles of the same office, "bishop" designating the function, namely, that of oversight, and "presbyter" the dignity appertaining to the office. Christ is figuratively called "the bishop [episcopos] of souls" ( 1 Peter 2:25 ).

Your definition
of bishop does not match up with Scripture.
a bishop is a shepherd. It's that hard.

Look, I know what canon 15 meant since there were debates over whether this or that bishop had offended. Some got promoted only to resign when it became obvious they had not obeyed that canon.

Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series II, Vol. XIV

If you want to believe a shepherd leaves his flock because another flock looks better to him, you're right; and it explains some of the current problems in the Catholic Church that Pope Francis is trying to find solutions for.

You appear to be looking for something else to quarrel about; and I'm beginning to find you boring.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
a bishop is a shepherd. It's that hard.

Look, I know what canon 15 meant since there were debates over whether this or that bishop had offended. Some got promoted only to resign when it became obvious they had not obeyed that canon.

Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Series II, Vol. XIV

If you want to believe a shepherd leaves his flock because another flock looks better to him, you're right; and it explains some of the current problems in the Catholic Church that Pope Francis is trying to find solutions for.

You appear to be looking for something else to quarrel about; and I'm beginning to find you boring.
Hmmmm......so when I ask you to back up your theory using Scripture, show you that your definition of bishop is not the same as the bibles definition of bishop and I show you that you are wrong about Cannon 15 of the Council of Nicea I am looking for something to quarrel about o_O

Interesting.....very interesting. :rolleyes:
 

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hmmmm......so when I ask you to back up your theory using Scripture, show you that your definition of bishop is not the same as the bibles definition of bishop and I show you that you are wrong about Cannon 15 of the Council of Nicea I am looking for something to quarrel about o_O

Interesting.....very interesting. :rolleyes:
I am finding your views unacceptable since Jesus told Peter, "Feed my sheep." I don't find you a very good example of a Catholic if you can overlook that. And what do you think the crosier means?

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of Holy Orders

1558 "Episcopal consecration confers, together with the office of sanctifying, also the offices of teaching and ruling. . . . In fact . . . by the imposition of hands and through the words of the consecration, the grace of the Holy Spirit is given, and a sacred character is impressed in such wise that bishops, in an eminent and visible manner, take the place of Christ himself, teacher, shepherd, and priest, and act as his representative (in Eius persona agant)." "By virtue, therefore, of the Holy Spirit who has been given to them, bishops have been constituted true and authentic teachers of the faith and have been made pontiffs and pastors."

1559 "One is constituted a member of the episcopal body in virtue of the sacramental consecration and by the hierarchical communion with the head and members of the college." The character and collegial nature of the episcopal order are evidenced among other ways by the Church's ancient practice which calls for several bishops to participate in the consecration of a new bishop. In our day, the lawful ordination of a bishop requires a special intervention of the Bishop of Rome, because he is the supreme visible bond of the communion of the particular Churches in the one Church and the guarantor of their freedom.

1560 As Christ's vicar, each bishop has the pastoral care of the particular Church entrusted to him, but at the same time he bears collegially with all his brothers in the episcopacy the solicitude for all the Churches: "Though each bishop is the lawful pastor only of the portion of the flock entrusted to his care, as a legitimate successor of the apostles he is, by divine institution and precept, responsible with the other bishops for the apostolic mission of the Church."

1561 The above considerations explain why the Eucharist celebrated by the bishop has a quite special significance as an expression of the Church gathered around the altar, with the one who represents Christ, the Good Shepherd and Head of his Church, presiding.
 
Last edited:

Nancy

Well-Known Member
Apr 30, 2018
16,761
25,324
113
Buffalo, Ny
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
  • Like
Reactions: 4Jesus

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Hi Stan,

I agree with you that it says he must be the husband of one wife. HOWEVER, the contention I am making is that a bishop does not have to be married. IF he is married he is allowed only one wife. Please show me in Scripture where it says a bishop MUST be married.

I can't find it.

Willing to learn, Mary

"A bishop/overseer then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;" I Timothy 3:2

"An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, having children who are believers and are not open to accusation of indiscretion or insubordination.

For a bishop/overseer must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;"
Titus 1:6-7
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Giuliano

farouk

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2009
30,790
19,230
113
North America
Reggie, you can't live in a very built up area then if you cannot find ' anyone ' that has liked their tattoos years later- I know loads of people that like what they had done, many are now in their 40--60's age ranges, me included. It's okay, you don't have to lecture me on that, It would just be wasted words on a computer screen. You don't like or agree with them, which is fine.
Rita
If it seemed nice at the time to have it done, and it's still nice to have (and I think you said you prayed about it before your tattooing), then that's it, really, isn't it?
 

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I am finding your views unacceptable since Jesus told Peter, "Feed my sheep." I don't find you a very good example of a Catholic if you can overlook that. And what do you think the crosier means?

Catechism of the Catholic Church - The sacrament of Holy Orders

1558 "Episcopal consecration confers, together with the office of sanctifying, also the offices of teaching and ruling. . . . In fact . . . by the imposition of hands and through the words of the consecration, the grace of the Holy Spirit is given, and a sacred character is impressed in such wise that bishops, in an eminent and visible manner, take the place of Christ himself, teacher, shepherd, and priest, and act as his representative (in Eius persona agant)." "By virtue, therefore, of the Holy Spirit who has been given to them, bishops have been constituted true and authentic teachers of the faith and have been made pontiffs and pastors."

1559 "One is constituted a member of the episcopal body in virtue of the sacramental consecration and by the hierarchical communion with the head and members of the college." The character and collegial nature of the episcopal order are evidenced among other ways by the Church's ancient practice which calls for several bishops to participate in the consecration of a new bishop. In our day, the lawful ordination of a bishop requires a special intervention of the Bishop of Rome, because he is the supreme visible bond of the communion of the particular Churches in the one Church and the guarantor of their freedom.

1560 As Christ's vicar, each bishop has the pastoral care of the particular Church entrusted to him, but at the same time he bears collegially with all his brothers in the episcopacy the solicitude for all the Churches: "Though each bishop is the lawful pastor only of the portion of the flock entrusted to his care, as a legitimate successor of the apostles he is, by divine institution and precept, responsible with the other bishops for the apostolic mission of the Church."

1561 The above considerations explain why the Eucharist celebrated by the bishop has a quite special significance as an expression of the Church gathered around the altar, with the one who represents Christ, the Good Shepherd and Head of his Church, presiding.
Focus kiddo.....I asked you to back up your theory using Scripture....you failed.

I showed you that your definition of bishop is not the same as the bibles definition of bishop which means....you were wrong.

I showed you that you were wrong about Cannon 15 of the Council of Nicaea.....

and you post the catechism of the CC in response..... o_O
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stan B

Marymog

Well-Known Member
Mar 7, 2017
11,283
1,633
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"A bishop/overseer then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;" I Timothy 3:2

"An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, having children who are believers and are not open to accusation of indiscretion or insubordination.

For a bishop/overseer must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;"
Titus 1:6-7
OK....It says a bishop must be blameless. Where is the must be married part?

How about this scenario: When the wife of a bishop dies must he re-marry?

Curious Mary
 

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
OK....It says a bishop must be blameless. Where is the must be married part?

How about this scenario: When the wife of a bishop dies must he re-marry?

Curious Mary

No! He is still the husband of one wife, and the fact that his wife has passed on, by no means they are no longer married. A husband and wife become one flesh, and that oneness can never be separated. It is an eternal unity.

While it is permissible for him to marry, as Paul said, all things are lawful, but all things are not expedient. My wife has been gone for 4 years, but I have never for a moment felt unmarried.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
This is something I never saw. I also don't know any gay people who got married. It hasn't affected my life at all.
They bored me, so I don't pay attention to them.

A couple who married according to Gods definition of (holy matrimony) and a couple who marry according to a (certain) states definition of (marriage) are both legally considered a Legal Marriage, without consideration of the difference between one marriage being sanctioned BY God, (as holy) and the other being BY God, (a sin).

You may not know of any homosexuals who have "a legal state marriage", however if you have a holy marriage, the state considers your marriage the SAME as a homosexuals "state authorized marriage".

My view is it does affect me, by the SAME term being lawfully "BROADENED outside of its scope" and used for DIFFERENT circumstances. That being Two men or Two women "so called marrying" is not the SAME as Two people of opposite gender marrying.

That's why I wonder why Christians would vote for Donald Trump.

I don't consider a Political Vote for someone based on their personal marital information.

What I can say is that I don't any man who treated his wives the way he has. If he lied to them and cheated on them, why should I trust him?

What does Trump's Contractural agreement with his wives, have to do with you?

He doesn't even know me. Allegedly he loved his wives, yet he could treat them as poorly as he did?

Can't condone lying or cheating, yet I do find Christ forgiving of men and women who forgive their husbands and visa versa, would be between them, and not my business.

I am old enough to remember when a divorced person could never have been elected President -- and someone whose wife posed for nude pictures couldn't have.

I remember a time of one-time married Presidents were horrible Presidents and wives of Presidents who thought of themselves as the President.

I don't trust liars no matter what they pretend to be. If the Democrats hadn't nominated a big liar last time, maybe they would won. I asked myself who was the bigger liar, Donald or Hillary? Some marriage she and Bill had!

I don't like lying, but then what person has not lied? And BTW, Hillary and Billary are still married.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Giuliano

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2019
5,978
3,676
113
Carlisle
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Focus kiddo.....I asked you to back up your theory using Scripture....you failed.

I showed you that your definition of bishop is not the same as the bibles definition of bishop which means....you were wrong.

I showed you that you were wrong about Cannon 15 of the Council of Nicaea.....

and you post the catechism of the CC in response..... o_O
You say, you say, I was wrong. Keep saying it. Maybe you'll wind up convincing yourself.

It seems to me you aren't a very good Catholic if you don't take Church history, the Catechism and what Jesus said to Peter seriously.

I never thought I'd see the day when a Catholic demanded a sola scriptura method of doing things.
 

Taken

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Feb 6, 2018
24,509
12,929
113
United States
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Someone who lies to his wife is not someone I trust.

How would you know Trump lied to his wife, but that he said so?

That goes for Bill Clinton as well as Donald Trump.

When did Bill admit to lying?

My confidance in Trump is NOT about his faithfulness in his personal relationships.

My confidance in Trump IS he and I share the same mindset that America is in trouble, and ideas Trump favors to tackle Americas troubles are acceptable to me, whether or not he encounters stumbling blocks along the way, he continues trudging along dispite the oppositions intended distractions.

In short, I cast no vote for a faithful husband, or the most eloquent speaker, or the ad nausem speeches of promoting the "government" as ones "daddy and caretaker"...

but rather I cast a vote for a candidate whose intended governmental service is in line with my own mindset.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
  • Like
Reactions: Willie T

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2018
2,948
1,708
113
73
Palmyra
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Satan and his ways are so very subtle...it's all happening right under our noses and we have been slowly moving away from all things God. "If even the very elect..."

Exactly - but I'm afraid that too many Christians aren't looking at the subtleties of the wicked one - they gullibly believe everything on the propagandized news stations. Why isn't the mainstream news talking about Agenda 21? Why aren't they talking about the U.N. goal of crushing America's sovereignty? Why aren't they telling us why U.N. tanks are in America? Why aren't they talking about the Deagal government document stating that by 2025 America's population will be drastically reduced? Why aren't they talking about the real reason for these foreign wars? Why aren't they pointing out that none of the Presidents' family served?

You quoted the most important Scripture: "If even the very elect..."
 

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2018
2,948
1,708
113
73
Palmyra
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Trump and H. Clinton received enough of OUR votes in their respective general elections to win the nomination. Trumped received enough of OUR votes in the primary election in the States that had the most ELECTORAL COLLAGE. If you move around the votes for Hillary in various States to the States that had more electoral collage (of which she lost) she would have won. Soooo how does my vote not matter anymore?

Curious Mary

I don't believe what we're told anymore. I doubt that our votes matter - although I still vote. I don't believe it's an honest system. The last President to stand against the secret societies was JFK and they had him assassinated. Do you really think that these people are going to let us vote? I have nothing to go by but it's what I think.
 

Stan B

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2019
1,967
983
113
81
Toronto
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
It seems to me you aren't a very good Catholic if you don't take Church history, the Catechism and what Jesus said to Peter seriously.

I never thought I'd see the day when a Catholic demanded a sola scriptura method of doing things.
While you might consider Sola Scriptura to be unacceptable, it has been the belief of the church since the very beginning, as proclaimed by Eusebius AD 325, in his Second Book against Sabellius, he expressly declares that if a word is not found in Scripture, it is satisfactory to him: "As to not inqiring into truths which submit to investigation, it is indolent, so prying into others where scrutiny is expedient, is audacity. Into what truths should ought we then search? Those which we
find recorded in Scriptures. But what we do not find recorded there, let us not search after. For had the knowledge of them been incumbant on us, the Holy Spirit would doubtless placed them there . . . Speak that which is written, and strife will be abandoned."

Of course there was no catechism in those days. The catechism was built up over many years, as certain segments of the church figured Scripture was inadequate, so started their own non-Biblical philosophies to Scripture. And the Apostle Paul warned us against such things, as false teachers start making their own humanistic religion:

"If you have died with Christ to the spiritual forces of the world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its regulations: “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”? These will all perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings." Col 2:20

"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, which are based on human tradition and the spiritual forces of the world rather than on Christ. For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity dwells in bodily form. And you have been made complete in Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority." Col 2