Were all Killed in Sodom & Gomorrah Evil or just Collateral Damage?

[Adrift]

Were all of the women and children killed in Sodom & Gomorrah sinfully deserving of death or did God consider them collateral damage? (Gen.19 KJV)

 

[BlessedPeace]

We can only go by what is in the scriptures.

Only Lot and his family survived.

And in truth as to the terms and conditions God set forth for that, Lot should have been consumed along with the rest of the twin cities.

He offered his virgin daughters to be gang raped by the male gay perverts who arrived at his door and demanded Lot release his guests,the angels of God,so they may know them. Which is biblical language for sex.

Lot did this knowing those daughters would need be killed after,had the men accepted that alternative,because they were no longer virgin under God's laws.

 

[Adrift]

We can only go by what is in the scriptures.

Only Lot and his family survived.

And in truth as to the terms and conditions God set forth for that, Lot should have been consumed along with the rest of the twin cities.

He offered his virgin daughters to be gang raped by the male gay perverts who arrived at his door and demanded Lot release his guests,the angels of God,so they may know them. Which is biblical language for sex.

Lot did this knowing those daughters would need be killed after,had the men accepted that alternative,because they were no longer virgin under God's laws.

Right. I am just wondering about the fact that, some bible versions say that ALL of the men in Sodom were evil, so I can understand them all dying in the fire and brimstone. But, there is no exception made, so I guess we are to assume that all of the women and children were evil sinners transgressing Gods law. Or, it was just tough stuff and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

 

[BlessedPeace]

Right. I am just wondering about the fact that, some bible versions say that ALL of the men in Sodom were evil, so I can understand them all dying in the fire and brimstone. But, there is no exception made, so I guess we are to assume that all of the women and children were evil sinners transgressing Gods law. Or, it was just tough stuff and they were in the wrong place at the wrong time?

I suggest you read Abraham's account. God said he wouldn't destroy the cities if a certain number of residents were found righteous in God's eyes. There were varying numbers until God arrived at that final tally.

So, the answer then is no. No one was righteous in those cities and all deserved and did perish.

 

[Behold]

Were all of the women and children killed in Sodom & Gomorrah sinfully deserving of death or did God consider them collateral damage? (Gen.19 KJV)

Just as "all" were under God's Judgment, right outside the Ark of Noah, so the same final judgment fell on the City.

The Black Ash in the rock, in that location... is available for you to witness in Israel.

Genesis 19 is not "errors in the bible".

 

[Wick Stick]

Were all of the women and children killed in Sodom & Gomorrah sinfully deserving of death or did God consider them collateral damage? (Gen.19 KJV)

Less than 10.

In Genesis 18, Abraham asked God if He would spare the city if He found 10 righteous men there, and God agreed to it. But didn't find that many.

 

[Behold]

Less than 10.

In Genesis 18, Abraham asked God if He would spare the city if He found 10 righteous men there, and God agreed to it. But didn't find that many.

God told Abram that if He could find 10 "righteous there" then God would not destroy them ALL.

10 were not found.

 

[Wick Stick]

Just as "all" were under God's Judgment, right outside the Ark of Noah, so the same final judgment fell on the City.

The Black Ash in the rock, in that location... is available for you to witness in Israel.

Genesis 19 is not "errors in the bible".

The location of Sodom is not well-agreed upon, but nobody puts it in modern-day Israel. It's west of Jordan or the Dead Sea. In Jordan.

 

[BlessedPeace]

The location of Sodom is not well-agreed upon, but nobody puts it in modern-day Israel. It's west of Jordan or the Dead Sea. In Jordan.

Have Sodom and Gomorrah Been Found? - The BAS Library

In the past many scholars have regarded Sodom and Gomorrah—and the Biblical stories in which they appear—as mere legend. Now, however, two highly respected American archaeologists are about to propose that they may have found the remains of the ancient cities.

library.biblicalarchaeology.org

 

[Adrift]

Just as "all" were under God's Judgment, right outside the Ark of Noah, so the same final judgment fell on the City.

The Black Ash in the rock, in that location... is available for you to witness in Israel.

Genesis 19 is not "errors in the bible".

I have never inferred that there were any "errors in the Bible". It was merely a question looking for perspectives. It wasn't meant to start spearing each other.

 

[Behold]

I have never inferred that there were any "errors in the Bible". It was merely a question looking for perspectives. It wasn't meant to start spearing each other.

I didn't assume that you believe that there are errors in the bible.
So, no worries, i was not spearing you.

I was just connecting the dots, as the FLOOD and the Destruction of those sexual perverts, happens in the same OT book.

 

[Behold]

The location of Sodom is not well-agreed upon, but nobody puts it in modern-day Israel. It's west of Jordan or the Dead Sea. In Jordan.

Go here :

Bab edh-Dhra and Numeira

Look for this sign..

באבאדהארה ונומייר

 

[Wick Stick]

Go here :

Bab edh-Dhra and Numeira

Look for this sign..

באבאדהארה ונומייר

I've been to the Dead Sea, Ein Gedi, and Masada, but didn't cross over to Jordan. Would love to see Petra in person, but probably isn't going to happen.

That site is theoretically Gomorrah rather than Sodom but finding burnt stones at a site in the Great Rift Valley (a volcanically active zone) doesn't prove much.

The article you linked is 40+ years old, and based on even older archaeology. More modern theories place Sodom northeast of the Dead Sea rather than south. I think that also aligns better with Scripture, which describes "the well-watered plain" where Lot went to live. The region south of the Dead Sea hasn't been "well-watered" at any point in recorded history.

 

[St. SteVen]

Only Lot and his family survived.

Lot's wife was a pillar of salt according to the text.

Lesson: Don't look back.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

Lot did this knowing those daughters would need be killed after,had the men accepted that alternative,because they were no longer virgin under God's laws.

Was Lot under the law of Moses?
The law of Moses did not yet apply. IMO

Romans 5:13 NIV
To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given,
but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

/

 

[Behold]

The article you linked is 40+ years old, and based on even older archaeology. More modern theories

My home is in Israel , so, you can appreciate that, and i'll appreciate that you've visited once..

Did you get in the "Dead Sea" and did you get in the "Sea of Galilee" and the "Red Sea"?
How about the Mediterranean sea?
If you wanted to do it, you can visit all of them in one day, and take a "swim".

Also, there are always "new Theories", about everything... as that is how they sell "new books" to new customers and old ones.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Were all of the women and children killed in Sodom & Gomorrah sinfully deserving of death or did God consider them collateral damage? (Gen.19 KJV)

I would guess that the entire group in the cities were committed to gross sin. It's true Lot had been there, but he likely only tolerated these things as an aberration. Knowing the city was to be destroyed Lot didn't feel he could convince any friends to leave with him.

Not only so but Abraham, in bargaining with God, anticipated that He would be unable to find even 10 people there. If you look at a place like Gaza, you will find that even though we're told many are innocent, most of them are probably not. Sin spreads like a disease, and group-think usually emerges as a consensus among the people, justifying any and all atrocities that the group is guilty of.

I'll let God be the judge, though. Jesus said that Sodom could rise and repent if they had known about him. We should reserve our judgments, therefore.

Matt 11.23 And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go down to Hades. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.

 

[Wick Stick]

My home is in Israel , so, you can appreciate that, and i'll appreciate that you've visited once..

Great. Would you say that any part of the road south from the Salt Sea to Eilat is a "well-watered plain?"

Did you get in the "Dead Sea" and did you get in the "Sea of Galilee" and the "Red Sea"? How about the Mediterranean sea?
If you wanted to do it, you can visit all of them in one day, and take a "swim".

Yes to all, but not in a day. Also, Lake Gennesaret was filthy. Not a good place to swim.

I stayed two weeks in a Kibbutz near the Lebanese border, a few days in a hotel in Tiberius, took a Humvee to the top of Mt Hermon, toured a bunch of historical sites - Capernaum, Meggido, Carmel, then a very nice resort in Tel Aviv for a few days, then a pretty crappy hostel in Jerusalem for a few, but I was able to visit the Wailing Wall and tour the Temple Mount, one day in a very sketchy neighborhood in Bethlehem, Jericho for a day, then a drive to the Dead Sea and Ein Gedi and Eilat where I would have liked to have stayed longer. Very pretty water there.

Also, there are always "new Theories", about everything... as that is how they sell "new books" to new customers and old ones.

Of course. But on the other hand, a lot of the older archaeology that was done includes what one might call pious forgery.

 

[St. SteVen]

Were all of the women and children killed in Sodom & Gomorrah sinfully deserving of death or did God consider them collateral damage? (Gen.19 KJV)

Interesting topic, thanks.

I would say that the "innocents" killed in the wrath visited on these two cities was collateral damage.

There is a theory that it was inhospitality, not "sodomy", that the cities were destroyed for.
And perhaps primarily in reference to the "angelic" visitors that stayed with Lot.

Probably unreasonable to think that the behavior in question (sodomy) was limited to those two cities.

/

 

[St. SteVen]

This is a rather long, but interesting, citation about the restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah, Ammon and Moab, Elam, Egypt and Edom. The bit about Edom is most interesting. It discusses the use of exaggerated language (to make a point) in biblical literature. Meaning, it is not to be taken literally.

The restoration of Sodom and Gomorrah from "eternal" fire Jude 1:7 In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Ezekiel 16:53 “‘However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them,

The restoration of Ammon and Moab Zephaniah 2:9 Therefore, as surely as I live,” declares the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, “surely Moab will become like Sodom, the Ammonites like Gomorrah— a place of weeds and salt pits, a wasteland forever. The remnant of my people will plunder them; the survivors of my nation will inherit their land.” Jeremiah 25:22, 27 21 Edom, Moab and Ammon; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says:
Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:6 “Yet afterward, I will restore the fortunes of the Ammonites,” declares the Lord. Jeremiah 48:4, 47 4 Moab will be broken; her little ones will cry out. 47 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Moab in days to come,” declares the Lord. Here ends the judgment on Moab.


The restoration of Elam Jeremiah 25:25, 27 25 all the kings of Zimri, Elam and Media; ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Jeremiah 49:39 “Yet I will restore the fortunes of Elam in days to come,” declares the Lord.


The restoration of Egypt
Jeremiah 25:19, 27 19 Pharaoh king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials and all his people, ... 27 “Then tell them, ‘This is what the Lord Almighty, the God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the sword I will send among you.’ Ezekiel 29:13-14 “‘Yet this is what the Sovereign Lord says: At the end of forty years I will gather the Egyptians from the nations where they were scattered. 14 I will bring them back from captivity and return them to Upper Egypt, the land of their ancestry. There they will be a lowly kingdom.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Edom

Edom was an ancient kingdom in Transjordan located between Moab to the northeast, the Arabah to the west and the Arabian Desert to the south and east. Most of its former territory is now divided between Israel and Jordan.

The destruction of Edom uses the same exaggerated language descriptions as hell in the Bible. Yet none of it lasted forever as it clearly says. And you can certainly pass through it today. For this prophecy to be taken literally it would need to be a smoking tar pit today with a bypass to get around it. Compare verse ten below. (Revelation 14:11)

Isaiah 34:8-11 For the Lord has a day of vengeance, a year of retribution, to uphold Zion’s cause. 9 Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! 10 It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever. From generation to generation it will lie desolate; no one will ever pass through it again. 11 The desert owl and screech owl will possess it; the great owl and the raven will nest there. God will stretch out over Edom the measuring line of chaos and the plumb line of desolation.

--- COMPARE ---

Revelation 14:11 NIV
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever.
There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image,
or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

/