CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Why does someone need to prove something true by definition? Beheaded people come to life when the Father raises them from the dead at the command of Jesus.
WHAT ALMOST ALL PREMILLENNIALISTS DO NOT NOTICE OR REFUSE TO SEE
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First you ask me what I meant by that. But instead of at least waiting to see if I explain first, you then wrongly charge me with something that I'm not even remotely meaning nor even came to mind, such as you do below. IOW, shoot first and ask questions later.
But now I don't know if I should even bother explaining what I meant by 2nd coming events since you already decided to wrongly explain for me what I meant. But even so, though I don't want to explain any longer what I meant since you already made up your mind what I meant without even giving me a chance to explain first, I guess I will explain what I meant, regardless.
When I say 2nd coming events I'm simply meaning all the events involving the 2nd coming. For example, the rising of the dead in Christ that occurs first. That is an event involving the 2nd coming. The beast and it's armies being destroyed is an event also involving the 2nd coming, yet it's not the same event as the dead in Christ rising first, thus events involving the 2nd coming. Anyway, that's basically what I was meaning by that. And somewhere during these events involving the 2nd coming is the event involving heaven and earth passing away, and that it's not an event that takes place a thousand years later instead as most Premils insist.
BTW, the fact I said 2nd coming events, '2nd' being a keyword, how could you possibly take that to mean a third coming? How on earth can 2nd also mean third? IOW, since when is 2 and 3 the same number? If I meant a third coming I would have called it a third coming not a 2nd coming. Get a clue at least, before jumping to all these wild conclusions you often do at times. And the same for some of your interpretations of Scriptures, get a clue at least, before jumping to all these wild conclusions you often do at times in regards to some of these Scriptures and what you insist they are meaning.
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Before we can assume you are correct, thus, that you have debunked Premil with what you have submitted, let's compare the following verses since both have the following in common--no more.
Revelation 18:23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
Revelation 20:3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more , till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
What does 'no more' mean to you in Revelation 18:23? Whatever it means to you in that verse you can't then make it mean something different in Revelation 20:3 since that would be cherry picking, something that most interpreters agree that one should not be doing since it is not being intellectually honest.
and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee
that he should deceive the nations no more
What you need to do now is demonstrate that you interpreting these in the same manner, thus proving you are not cherry picking. IOW, if the former literally means no more, then the same has to be true in regards to the latter. Or if instead, the latter is not literally meaning no more, then the same has be true of the former, that it too is not literally meaning no more.
What does it literally mean for the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee? That these things can still be heard, just not as loudly? Is that how you would interpret that? Of course not. Or at least I would hope not.
Now all one needs to do is treat this in the same manner--that he should deceive the nations no more. That it literally means exactly what it says, that during the thousand years not one single nation, (whether it's meaning entire nations or whether it's meaning individual Gentiles), is still being deceived at the time. Which view then agrees 100% with the text? Premil or Amil? Obviously, not the latter since Amil agrees 0% with the text, not 100% instead. The fact Amil has to cherry pick what 'no more' means throughout the book of Revelation in order to fit their view of the thousand years, rather than being consistent about what 'no more' is meaning throughout the book of Revelation instead, that it literally means exactly what it says.
It would be like arguing that one can still die again after the following has already happened to them.
Luke 20:36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
Though, it says neither can they die anymore, it really means they can die some more. Because, after all, isn't that how Amils reason 'no more' in Revelation 20:3 that it means he can still deceive the nations some more rather than he can deceive the nations no more? IOW, only in Amil theology does no more and some more mean the exact same thing. While in the real world no more and some more never mean the same thing.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Avoidance is how Premillennialism survives online.
You're not getting the thrust of the text. Rev 20 is talking about the ignorance of the Gentiles being removed through the great commission. This is a generality, like the examples above that you avoided. The nations are no longer outside of God's covenant of grace. The nations are no longer deceived by spiritual ignorance. They have an opportunity to embrace Christ if they want. Your avoidance of all those above questions is testimony to the fact that you know by answering them honestly would force you to renounce Premillennialism.
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Timtofly
Well-Known Member
It also said that people would die, as a sinner. Will people still die in you NHNE?
In Christ you are a new creation. Is that a totally different you than the you at birth, or just a changed you? Current Jerusalem will be made a joy forever. That means it will never be a sad place again, ever, like it is now.
Do you place the GWT Judgment at the Second Coming then, and not after the Millennium? Those redeemed at the GWT Judgment will have their tears and sorrow wiped away.
What they are is professed Christians who started out as Christians, but because they didn't do the will of His Father which is in heaven after having become Christians, Jesus tells them in the end that He never knew them.
Let's look at something recorded in Matthew 24 and let's just stick to the text itself.
Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Who is Jesus telling to watch here? Unbelieving Jews? The lost?
Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
This tells us who He is telling to watch, that being His servants. But are these the only servants He is telling to watch, the ones that remain faithful?
What about the servants per the following, aren't these also His servants that are supposed to be watching, but instead of watching they are doing bad deeds instead?
Matthew 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
What evil servant? Seriously, how can it not be a servant of His the fact it says this of this evil servant-- My lord delayeth his coming--as in a professed personal relationship with, since the lost, for example, would not be thinking in his or her heart that their Lord delayeth His coming. That is ludicrous that they would be. Come on, this is not rocket science.
And what happens to this evil servant of His that is not watching for His return, thus beginning to do evil in life rather than comtinuing to do good, regardless that it seems Jesus is delaying His coming, so that way this servant can do evil for awhile and still have time to repent before Jesus returns. Except no one, including this evil servant knows when Jesus will return, thus the following.
Matthew 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth
Then notice in Matthew 25 what was just said at the end of the parable prior to the coming recorded in verse 31 which then leads to the sheep and goats judgment at the time.
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth
It is ludicrous per the parable involving verses 14-30 in Matthew 25 that some of these servants are not even meaning His servants. Except they are all meaning His servants, including the unprofitable servant since that is meaning this one per verses 24-30 below, and that he is initially among these in verses 14-18 below, this unprofitable servant being the one in verse 18, the same one that verse 30 applies to when Jesus returns.
24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:
25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine.
26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:
27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.
28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.
29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:14 For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.
15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents.
17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two.
18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord's money.
I know, I know, assuming you have read this far, nothing I have submitted supports what I allege. Yea, right. If you say so.
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Revelation 20 says no such thing. You will no doubt avoid owning up to the fact that you have eisegetically inserted that meaning into the text and then after doing that, you make ridiculous false claims like the above.
You should not allow your human imagination to eisegeticlally insert things into any part of scripture.
Not that Revelation 20 says anything whatsoever about the ignorance of the Gentiles being removed through the great commission, but Amillennialism and the kind of false statements you just made above is clear proof that ignorance has not been removed in any way - not even the great commission and faith in Christ prevents the kind of ignorance existing even in the body of Christ that becomes evident each time you make such false claims.
Again, Revelation 20:1-6 is saying nothing about the New Covenant and this period of grace. How you can even claim to know what you are talking about when you repeatedly eisegetically insert meaning into a text that is not there, is astonishing!
Even the church is deceived in part (blindness in part) by spiritual ignorance - Amillennialism being a prime example.
The claims you make in the face of all the evidence of the last 2,000 years would never stand 2 seconds in a court of law. The jury and judge would be laughing hysterically at the things you say by now.
If they do not submit themselves to Satan's ongoing deception of the nations, they would all have embraced Christ by now - just like it will be in the millennium once Satan has been bound, when the nations of those who are saved will walk in the light of New Jerusalem.
LOL. The one who avoids the facts and using eisegesis and human imagination inserts a completely different meaning into one text after another claims that those who disagree with him are avoiding the facts.
How can you expect anyone to take you seriously? It's ridiculous. You make it clear that you are not serious about scripture at all, but only about what you have chosen to believe scripture is saying after you change it's meaning by inserting meaning that is not in the texts.
The reader of passages of scripture is not at liberty to insert a meaning into the text that is not written there or said in the part of scripture he is referring to, using only human imagination and sheer conjecture the way you clearly keep doing, whether or not he calls it "interpreting scripture with scripture".
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Yes. Jesus told you about a second death. Don't you believe Him?
The second death can only come after the resurrection of all the dead.
The regeneration of the creation is the regeneration of the creation. It comes when Christ returns. The second death comes after that.
Nope. Current Jerusalem is in bondage with her children. Don't you read scripture before you post? New Jerusalem is called the beloved city and the camp of the saints and the holy city and it will be surrounded by the armies of Gog-Magog.
No other city is called the holy city in the Revelation. Only New Jerusalem.
Nope. Those who are resurrected when Christ returns will have their tears and sorrow wiped away. They are promised this by Jesus in Revelation 7:15-17.
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Well spotted.
Him who overcomes I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will go out no more. And I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, New Jerusalem, which comes down out of Heaven from My God, and My new name.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Hebrews 10
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.
And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
Him who overcomes I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will go out no more. And I will write upon him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, New Jerusalem, which comes down out of Heaven from My God, and My new name.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Hebrews 10
And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him.
And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
The Gentiles that are not saved during your proposed millennium, is the reason they are not saved is because satan isn't deceiving them any more? Or is the reason they are not saved is because satan is deceiving them some more? Which one of those choices fully agree with this---that he should deceive the nations no more?
If we argue, the fact that the gospel spreads throughout the globe, that this is why Gentiles are no longer deceived since all they have to do is embrace the gospel in order to not be deceived, who or what then is preventing some of them from doing just that? How about this, for one.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
According to this passage there are least two things preventing them from being deceived.
1) that being if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost. ( I know what that means. But do you as well?)
2) the god of this world that hath blinded the minds of them which believe not
Who is the god of this world meaning if not satan? We are to believe that while he is depicted bound in the pit, so that he can deceive the nations no more, that he continues to do this, regardless--blinds the minds of them which believe not?
Or if not that, still assuming the millennium is meaning now, verse 4 is only applicable to prior to the millennium and after the millennium, but not applicable during the millennium?
Except--the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not---can only equal this--deceiving the nations---not this instead---deceiving the nations no more.
Can the god of this world blind the minds of them that believe not, without it involving deception in order do so?
How do you reconcile them being bodily resurrected to life again before an hour coming when the last trumpet begins to sound when time shall be no longer? Beheaded saints shall be bodily resurrected at the same hour coming when ALL who are physically dead shall be resurrected. Those (saints) who have done good shall be bodily resurrected immortal & incorruptible, while those who have done evil shall be resurrected to condemnation.
John 5:28-29 (KJV) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (KJV) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Revelation 10:5-7 (KJV) And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Believing the doctrine of Premillennialism you have them being bodily resurrected AGAIN for one thousand years after Christ comes the second time. Scripture does not agree with your doctrine!
Hebrews 9:27-28 (KJV) And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Beheaded bodies of flesh shall be resurrected from the graves, but only those bodies of flesh that lived and reigned with Christ in time, symbolized a thousand years before they physically died shall be resurrected immortal & incorruptible. While those who in life have no part in Christ's resurrection life shall also be bodily resurrected to stand before the GWTJ to give account unto God according to what is written in the books and the book of life, they shall all be cast into the lake of fire that is the second death.
You can try all you want to explain your doctrine of deception, but reconciling what you think might be truth with Scripture you cannot do! Nowhere in Scripture will you be able to prove two second comings, and two judgment days separated by one thousand years. That's why you're frustrated and having trouble trying to explain the unexplainable! When will you attempt to reconcile what you think with what the Word of God actually says?
You define the second and only coming of Christ again as though His coming the second time shall be followed by another coming, just as you argue for two separate judgment days. Scripture has much to say of what shall come regarding the final Day of the Lord when the last trumpet begins to sound that Christ has come again. But nowhere does Scripture depict this final Day of the Day of the Lord coming again define this last day of this age of Gospel grace as events that shall usher in two separate judgment days.
You're bringing to light another unbiblical doctrine! The Bible teaches that when we are in Christ we HAVE eternal life through His Spirit in us when we are born again. We don't start out as Christians only to become unprofitable servants. Those unprofitable servants never have faith in Christ. This is proven through their bragging about all they had done in the name of Christ. That's what makes them unprofitable servants, they profess Christ with their mouths, but their hearts are far from Him.
Matthew 15:8 (KJV) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
With the advent of the cross and resurrection the power Satan had to hold the Gentiles in bondage to fear of death is broken. That power is broken for Gentiles (nations) that hear the Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit, and according to grace through faith they turn to Christ in repentance believing in Him for everlasting life. The faithful Gentiles are no longer in bondage to fear of death because Christ defeated death and promises eternal life to whosoever believes. The binding of Satan was never to bring peace and harmony to this earth as Premillennialism believes. His binding through Christ was so the spiritual Kingdom of God would be built complete through Gentiles of faith who multitudes are now, since His binding, hearing the Gospel and believing in Christ, turning to Christ in droves for everlasting life. This is how Satan is bound that "he should deceive the nations no more." People from the nations of the world that turn to Christ through the Gospel and power of the Holy Spirit are no longer bound by fear of death, knowing death of their body is not death of the spirit that returns to God a living soul, but without physical form. That is why John can write of living souls, a spiritual body of believers in heaven after being martyred for their faith. Death could only kill their body, but it cannot kill the spirit/soul that lived and reigned with Christ before they physically died.
The god of this world will always blind the hearts and minds of those in unbelief. Those in unbelief are also still in bondage to fear of death because they have no knowledge of Christ, or they know of Him and reject Him through unbelief. It is only though knowing Christ for eternal life that bondage to fear of death is broken, and that because Christ stripped Satan of the power he had to hold those who believe in fear of death. When man knows the perfect love of Christ, there is no longer fear because perfect love of Christ casts out fear.
1 John 4:18 (KJV) There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
If Christ had not defeated death, then none would be eternally saved because death would still hold every man in bondage to fear. Men/women of faith have been delivered from fear of death when Christ defeated death by resurrecting from the tomb. We are no longer bound because the power Satan once possessed is defeated through Christ, the power of the devil being bound the god of this earth over all who remain in unbelief.
Hebrews 2:14-15 (KJV) Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
I see you avoid my questions above regarding multiple Scriptures that corroborate the Amil interpretation of Rev 20. Premils avoid them like the plague. It is clear why. It debunks Premil. Meanwhile: Premil has zero corroboration for its claims. That is because it is a non-corroborated doctrine.
This is basically a general statement that is repeating what the rest of Scripture is saying, telling us: through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ the Gentiles would no longer be deceived. It is a sweeping statement. It is a generality. Scripture does that often.
You need to see, the Greek word interpreted “nations” in Revelation 20 in the King James Version is the Greek ethnos which is repeatedly translated Gentiles throughout the whole of the New Testament. In essence it means the nations, the heathen, or the non-Jews. The word is rendered Gentiles in the following passages: Matthew 4:15, 6:32, 10:5, 18, 12:18, 21, 20:19, 25, 21:43, Mark 10:33, 42, Luke 2:32, 18:32, 21:24, 22:25, Acts 4:27, 7:45, 9:15, 10:45, 11:1, 18, 13:46, 47, 48, 14:2, 5, 27, 15:3, 7, 12, 14, 17, 19, 23, 18:6, 21:11, 19, 21, 25, 22:21, 26:17, 20, 23, Romans 1:13, 2:14, 24, 3:29, 9:24, 30, 11:11, 12, 13, 25, 15:9, 10, 11, 12, 16, 18, 27, 16:4, 1 Corinthians 5:1, 12:2, Galatians 2:2, 8, 12, 14, 15, 3:14, Ephesians 2:11, 3:1, 6, 8, 4:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 Thessalonians 2:16, 4:5, 1 Timothy 2:7, 3:16, 2 Timothy 4:17, 1 Peter 2:12, 4:3, Revelation 11:2.
In fact, the most common rendering of the word in the New Testament is the word Gentiles, with eighty-three references in total in the King James Version, many of them key passages that relate to the Gospel going out to the darkened Gentiles after the Cross. Such a consistent translation shows that the interpreters could have reasonably interpreted the Greek word ethnos in Revelation 20:3 as Gentiles.
Notwithstanding, the term “the nations” (plural) is used repeatedly in Scripture to represent the Gentile nations and particularly to distinguish them from “the nation” (singular) of natural Israel where God chose to exclusively manifest His glory for thousands of years before the Cross. Incidentally, this differentiation is common in both the Old and the New Testament. The nation of natural Israel was the sole national carrier of the favor of God for most of history; therefore, all nations outside of that “nation” were rightly viewed as heathen, idolatrous and unregenerate. The prophets and disciples would have often of used varying terms like “the nations,” “the heathen,” “the whole world” and “the Gentiles” to describe the exact same once totally deluded non-Jewish people. Many Bible students totally ignore this fact and consequently force an interpretation upon Revelation 20 that can in no way be corroborated by other Scripture. In reality, the binding of Satan relates exclusively to the actual curtailing of Satan from specifically deceiving the Gentile nations as he once did before, prior to Calvary.
Throughout the Old Testament the prophets repeatedly spoke, and looked forward to, a period in time when the heathenish Gentile nations would eventually accept the glorious Gospel of truth and would therefore graciously receive salvation. Notwithstanding, before this marvelous change would happen, Messiah had to come and defeat Satan, that great deceiver of “the nations,” and consequently forcefully remove him from his previous haughty place of complete deception of the nations.
Matthew 12:17-21 explains how through the person of Christ, and by His First Coming, the Gentile nations would finally believe. He said all this after the religious Jews had just threatened to kill Him. He asserts that it was “spoken by Esaias the prophet (in Isaiah 42:1-3), saying, Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles [Gr. ethnos]. He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory. And in his name shall the Gentiles [Gr. ethnos] trust.”
Christ’s rejection by his own house (Israel) saw Him turn to the Gentiles and the formerly outcast. He was now going to invade the devil’s house and acquire a spoil. Immediately after the Jews turned on Him in this story He delivers one of Satan’s household – a demon possessed man – thus illustrating that there was a darkened people out there that would come to faith in Christ. He used this man who belonged to the devil’s own house (kingdom) to impress the direction of the Gospel from hereon. Now, my main point is this: this reading expressly declares “in his name shall the Gentiles trust.” Using the Premil argument: all the Gentiles must trust, or this cannot apply today. What I am saying is, if you were to apply this argument namely that the fact that the vast bulk of Gentiles still remain deceived is evidence why we can’t be in the millennium now then we must (if we are consistent) apply the same rule to this statement to show that it can’t be relevant to today. It cannot relate to the here-and-now because the majority of Gentiles still don’t trust God. Of course, that would be preposterous. Such a statement is a general reference to the removal of the veil deceiving the Gentiles as a whole after the cross.
Even Caiaphas, the High Priest, speaking of the elect of God in the nation of Israel, prophesied in John 11:51-52, “that Jesus should die for that nation; And not for that nation only (natural Israel), but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad (the Gentiles).”
Calvary is seen to be the event that caused the spiritual merging of the believing Jew and Gentile, and that demolished forever the distinction that separated them. Scripture demolishes the notion that God has two distinct peoples (Jews and Gentiles), which will come to Him in two different ways and in two different time periods. Such is not the case and will not be the case in the future. Notwithstanding, there may undoubtedly be a greater ingathering of Jews in the days preceding the glorious Second Advent than there previously has been since the cross, however, it will be through the sole mechanism ordained of God of God – the Church of Jesus Christ.
In John 12:31-33 Christ assuredly predicted shortly before He defeated the power of Satan at the cross, “now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. this he said, signifying what death he should die” (John 12:31-33).
This passage plainly highlights the powerful victory that was wrought at Calvary and the deep impact that it had upon Satan. It shows us that Satan is now under Christ’s feet and is now subject to His Sovereign will. Moreover it highlights the significance it had for the whole world. Jesus here plainly predicted the opening of salvation to all nations, saying, “If I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto me.” Therefore, the glorious life-giving Gospel of Christ that the nation of Israel alone once enjoyed (at the time of this prophecy) would now soon (through the cross) be graciously offered unto, and received by, a previously blinded Gentile world.
The vehicle He would use would be the New Testament Church. Jesus said, in Luke 24:46-47, “thus it behoved Christ to suffer (through the cross), and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations [Gr. ethnos], beginning at Jerusalem.”
Christ had to first suffer and die in order to fulfil Scripture and defeat the awesome global control of Satan over the nations, before the Gentiles could ever enter into the full realization of salvation. The empowerment for the Church came at Pentecost as Christ promised in Acts 1:8. The passage records, “ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” This ‘kicked in’ after Pentecost, after the heavenly power to perform such arrived.
Matthew’s account in Matthew 28:19 says, “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations [Gr. ethnos], baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”
Throughout the OT the prophets spoke of "the nations" or "all nations" coming to God at a particular time. The term were interchangeable with the term strangers / heathen and Gentiles.
The Gospel was now no longer limited to the small nation of Israel but was rather, through Christ, opened up to all the nations. This is revealed in the great commission to the Church, after His resurrection, in Mark 16:15-16, where Christ declared, “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
This hour that you apparently think is involving both the saved and lost rising from the dead during, does it precede or follow what is recorded in the following verse?
Revelation 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
What is recorded in this verse, is this meaning before or after what is recorded in the following verses?
1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
What is recorded in these verses below, is this meaning before or after what is recorded in Revelation 19:21? Verse 54 says that death is is swallowed up in victory once this last trumpet sounds. Revelation 19:21 records that death obviously still exists after heaven is opened and that Christ and His armies descend to the earth, if these are not even dead until Christ confronts them face to face first, thus Revelation 19:21.
1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
Please don't tell me something nonsensical, such as, all these events I brought up including Revelation 19, they all occur in this same twinkling of an eye involving the sounding of the last trumpet. Because nowhere in Revelation 19 does it even give the impression that those things occur in the twinkling of eye, then the next moment they are in the past. Even per Noah's flood God never did those things in a twinkling of an eye, nor any other judgment He has executed in the past, such as the judgment involving 70 AD.
Apparently, God is no real hurry about things but Amils are. They apparently think everything has to fit a time period involving 24 hours or less once Christ returns. That what is recorded in Zechariah 14:16-19 can be fulfilled in a single day. That what is recorded in Matthew 19:28 can be fulfilled in a single day. That what is recorded in Ezekiel 39:9 can be fulfilled in a single day. That what is recorded in Ezekiel 39:12 can be fulfilled in a single day. That what is recorded in Isaiah 24:21-22, in particular, verse 22, can be fulfilled in a single day, And the list goes on. These are just a few examples of events involving the aftermath pertaining to the 2nd coming.
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Timtofly
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