Why I believe in the rapture.

[Dcopymope]

[QUOTE="Dcopymope, post: 1096453, member: 7157" And I'm sure you know, that a LOT of my people would much rather leave you to exactly that, because they see you all as insufferable.. but I guess Yahweh just wouldn't leave me be, so here I am, with you. .....

My People, Who Is That?

You All, Who Is That?

Really??? Ok...well, those gosh darned "negroes". ....And..if you need to hear it from your own skin folk, well, here you go with some video's from white people, since it was claimed I was making it about "race". And really it is, in a sense if we're talking about the literal seed of Jacob and the nationality of Israel. Scripture and race cannot be separated, if we're talking about a book that is 90% about a very specific group of people.

Now, these two indiviuals, I expect to be among the Seed of Jacob in Rev 7, "in the midst of God"..Don't be a fool like the rest of them here.

(Isaiah 14:1-3) "For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob. {2} And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. {3} And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,"

You wanna be one of these "strangers", or do you want to be one of those other "saints", strangers getting stomped in Rev 13? Your choice.

 

[Curtis]

Almost laughable confusion here about the two battles that refer to Gog/Magog.
BEFORE Jesus Returns, there will be an attack against the faithful people of God, who will by then; be living in peace and prosperity in all of the holy Land. The new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5
The horde of G/M will come from the North and the furthest parts of the North to attack that rich nation, but the Lord will destroy them. The people will take 7 years to complete the final clean up. Ezekiel 39:1-20

THEN; after the Millennium, a vast army will be gathered for all over the world to attack Jesus. Revelation 16:12-18
They are referred to as like Gog/ Magog, because of their similar size; uncountable numbers.
They are destroyed; totally cremated by fire from heaven. Revelation 20:9

Beulah means married. Jerusalem is no more forsaken/divorced but is married again.

Same nation.

 

[Truth7t7]

However in the Millennium it will be the nation of Israel ruled by Christ Himself from Jerusalem over all the other nations. The other nations will not have to be "in Christ" They will be under the leadership of Christ.

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

 

[Timtofly]

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Did you ever answer the question what happens to Satan after Armageddon?

Because your verses are for before the Second Coming. I am pretty sure when Christ is on the earth, you and Jesus Christ will know it is the real deal. You do not have to explain to Christ, He is not who He claims to be, unless you are a Pharisee. They did not get it.

 

[Timtofly]

Not sure where you get this from? Day of Christ/ Wrath of the Lamb is the rapture, This is when the tares and wheat are separated, and the saints and the faithful are rewarded while the tares are sent into the Time of The wrath of God.

I Know my timelines may not make sense, That is because of How I was shown to organize Revelation. Not as a linear account, But as a series of overlapping visions, Much like Old Testament Prophecy works. What this allows is to say that seals began to be opened right after Christ ascended, and yet the sixth seal has yet to occur, and when the sign occurs the seventh trumpet follows quickly. (within "days" as you say). It is a rather hard to explain in a short comment, but Instead of a 1 dimensional timeline mines is a 3 dimensional timeline.

A simple analogy I have used to explain this is that John was shown a master work of art being painted before Him. If you ever watched Bob Ross Paint "happy trees" and landscapes you should get a grasp of this. First you start with the background and broad strokes Then You add the details from the background to the foreground. This masterwork however is not a mere landscape but More like a Grecian Bas Relief that tells a story over time, a picture of what was and what is and what is to come from John's perspective. When You begin to read revelation this way, it becomes a Literary masterpiece unlike any ever written, and to grasp the fullness of it is impossible for the Mortal mind.

I quoted that part. You said the Second Coming was the 6th Seal and 6th vial. Then you said the 7th Trumpet was about the rapture. 6 comes before 7. As you explained, how soon is not given, at least not in your scenario.

"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

I would give it 24 hours, between preparing and showing up at Armageddon. But I am not sure how you place the 7th Trumpet as being Armageddon. The bodies of the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days. The vials start pouring out shortly after they die. But the earthquake at their resurrection and ascension should be the same one at the 7th vial.

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

"And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

I do not see this as the feet of Christ touching down on the mount of Olives and then a few hours later meeting on the battlefield of Armageddon. How could two massive armies come and be defeated within hours of each other? That is one reason why the Trumpets cannot sound at the same time as the Seals are opened. The 6th Seal is Jesus' Second Coming to the Mount of Olives. Then Jesus is here for the Trumpets and Thunders. But leaves with the 144k during the last 42 months. It is during these 42 months the kings of the east start a campaign to march against Satan in Jerusalem, but then are convinced with the 6th vial to join him instead.

 

[David H.]

I quoted that part. You said the Second Coming was the 6th Seal and 6th vial. Then you said the 7th Trumpet was about the rapture. 6 comes before 7. As you explained, how soon is not given, at least not in your scenario.

"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

I would give it 24 hours, between preparing and showing up at Armageddon. But I am not sure how you place the 7th Trumpet as being Armageddon. The bodies of the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days. The vials start pouring out shortly after they die. But the earthquake at their resurrection and ascension should be the same one at the 7th vial.

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

"And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

I do not see this as the feet of Christ touching down on the mount of Olives and then a few hours later meeting on the battlefield of Armageddon. How could two massive armies come and be defeated within hours of each other? That is one reason why the Trumpets cannot sound at the same time as the Seals are opened. The 6th Seal is Jesus' Second Coming to the Mount of Olives. Then Jesus is here for the Trumpets and Thunders. But leaves with the 144k during the last 42 months. It is during these 42 months the kings of the east start a campaign to march against Satan in Jerusalem, but then are convinced with the 6th vial to join him instead.

I Will get back to you on this tomorrow, as I want to answer your questions fully and accurately and do not think I can this late at night.

 

[Timtofly]

I am sure you understand the concept of Sabbath, so I put it to you that your ideas on the millennium are incorrect as the earth will be enjoying it's first millennial Sabbath. It will not be populated, worked, or burdened any longer until it's made anew. There is no scripture supporting your concept above, except those taken out of context in the OT and force fitted into the future.

Who is saying that there is work or labor during the Millennium? Sounds like a strawman excuse to slay like a mighty giant in the way.

Those promises made by Gabriel in Daniel 9 dictate the terms of the Millennium, not you.

The desolation is the time of the Trumpets and Thunders. And the last 42 months, if Satan is put in charge. Christ is going to hand a perfect kingdom back to God after 1000 years. Not a burnt offering as Amil declare, and not a scorched earth as some post mill declare.

A Sabbath is God enjoying fellowship with humanity. Not a scorched earth of desolation and destruction. God made the Sabbath for humanity, not humanity for the Sabbath.

 

[Brakelite]

Who is saying that there is work or labor during the Millennium?

I'll stop you here, and state that I didn't suggest the millennial Sabbath was for any people, but if you read it again more carefully, I said it would be a rest for the earth. By that I meant the planet... The ground itself... Just as there was a Sabbath every 7 years for the land during Israel's time in Palestine, that was just Palestine. The rest of the planet missed out... After 6000 years of overuse, abuse, and misuse, it will finally gets it's much needed and deserved Sabbath. And just as the earth in the initial creation was an empty and void canvas upon which God created His masterpiece, so shall also be the second creation.

 

[Addy]

.

 

[Brakelite]

@Backlit Are the birds all on holiday or sumptin???

Hahaha. Have you visited the photo thread recently? And the avatar is only a temporary arrangement until after the end of the All Black rugby season. No, the birds are still around... The back yard magpies have babies up in a tree about 50 meters away...a pair of Crows have moved into the front yard but visit the back yard from time to time when they're safe from the maggies... And a large group of Noisy Miners are always not that far away.

PS nice to see you back.

 

[Addy]

. Did not realize who started this thread. Sorry.

 

[David H.]

I quoted that part. You said the Second Coming was the 6th Seal and 6th vial. Then you said the 7th Trumpet was about the rapture. 6 comes before 7. As you explained, how soon is not given, at least not in your scenario.

Time is irrelevant with an Immortal God. Peter writes; A day is like a thousand years, and vice versa to the LORD. I Believe the seals run on one timeline, the trumpets on another and the vials on another. There are seven visions that all do this in Revelation, and they all culminate at the wrath of God, (The seven thunders). I Believe the Opening of the seals began when Christ ascended to heaven. The rider on the white horse being the false Apostles and the nicolaitans and what not who began to Usurp church authority right from the get go. The first five seals were opened and continue to this day being opened, and the next seal to be opened is the sixth which is the astronomical sign of His coming. This time of the birthpangs is what John himself said he was a partaker of and is the tribulation/ the church age. The trumpets do not begin until the start of the Great tribulation which lasts three and half years. And the sixth seal does not occur until after that tribulation. If it helps you use the finalweek as an outline.... I Place the 3.5 year Great tribulation in the first half of the Week, with Sixth seal, and seventh trumpet happening in rapid succession with one another along with many other events. The vials Begin at the sixth trumpet, as this is when repentance is no more found in the world, the vials are the wrath of God. The day of Christ deals with the church and does not happen till after the Great tribulation. The second half of the week is the day of the LORD, the time of Wrath, and the time that is spoken of more in Old Testament Prophecy. This is the time of Jacob's trouble. This last three and half years has to do with Israel and Gathering the nations at Armageddon.... so you have years after the day of Christ, and Armageddon, not "days" as you see it.

Here is a brief outline of the seven visions, and when they begin from another forum:

1 The vision of the churches (ages) Approx. Rev 1-3

2 The vision of the seals Rev. 4-8:5

3 The vision of the Trumpets Rev 8:6-11

4 The vision of the characters Rev 12-14

5 The vision of the Bowls of wrath Rev 15-16

6 the vision of the battles Rev. 17-19

7 The vision of the Millennium and eternity Rev. 20-end

Of these seven visions each is chronological within the vision itself, so for example seal one will come first, and seal two second. But each vision is distinct from the others. Each has a different start point, some 2000 years ago, some not until the final week of Revelation. The First vision serves as an introduction and stops at the beginning of the final week, the Last vision as a conclusion and starts at the end of the final week. The Other five end at the Day of the LORD.

Of those Middle five visions, There is overlap in chronology, so for example, Trumpet five can be followed by seal six and trumpet six, But never will trumpet 5 precede trumpet 4.

The start time of the visions are as follows. Dates are approximates.

1 Pentecost, 30AD

2 Resurrection 30 AD

3 Start of the final week TBD

4 At the birth of Christ 4/3 BC

5 At the sixth Trumpet TBD

6 At the fifth Trumpet TBD

7 At the end of the final week TBD

This all could have happened immediately after the resurrection of Christ, But the 2000 year church age was the mystery that was inserted into the timeline of events. Some of these things like the seals were opened immediately, but restrained as acknowledged by Paul writing For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (2 Thess. 2:7)

Thus for example the church has had to deal with things like persecution (seal 5), and pestilence (seal 4... think black plague) and False apostles (seal 1... Nicolaitans, Those who rule over the Laity) throughout church History, But they have been restrained from overcoming the church. Seal 6 and seven were never opened, because the mystery of the church age was inserted therein. At the beginning of the final week The Antichrist/Beast will be Granted Power to make war and to overcome the saints, which begins the final week.


"And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

I would give it 24 hours, between preparing and showing up at Armageddon. But I am not sure how you place the 7th Trumpet as being Armageddon. The bodies of the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem for 3.5 days. The vials start pouring out shortly after they die. But the earthquake at their resurrection and ascension should be the same one at the 7th vial.

"And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

"And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven."

I do not see this as the feet of Christ touching down on the mount of Olives and then a few hours later meeting on the battlefield of Armageddon. How could two massive armies come and be defeated within hours of each other? That is one reason why the Trumpets cannot sound at the same time as the Seals are opened. The 6th Seal is Jesus' Second Coming to the Mount of Olives. Then Jesus is here for the Trumpets and Thunders. But leaves with the 144k during the last 42 months. It is during these 42 months the kings of the east start a campaign to march against Satan in Jerusalem, but then are convinced with the 6th vial to join him instead.

Sorry for the Long comment which is in your quote above in Blue italics. Below is a response to the last paragraph of your comment RE: the mount of Olives and Armageddon.

Feet touching down on Mount of Olives is the day of Christ, Middle of the week. Armageddon is at the end of the week. The final 3.5 years are all the day of the LORD, and the time of Jacob's trouble. The great tribulation is for the church, Jacob's trouble for Israel, that is why you do not see the sealed of the tribes of Israel come into revelation (the 144k) until the sixth seal. It is not until after the church is raptured that Zechariah 12:10-12 and other old testament prophecies begin to take place.

 

[Timtofly]

I'll stop you here, and state that I didn't suggest the millennial Sabbath was for any people, but if you read it again more carefully, I said it would be a rest for the earth. By that I meant the planet... The ground itself... Just as there was a Sabbath every 7 years for the land during Israel's time in Palestine, that was just Palestine. The rest of the planet missed out... After 6000 years of overuse, abuse, and misuse, it will finally gets it's much needed and deserved Sabbath. And just as the earth in the initial creation was an empty and void canvas upon which God created His masterpiece, so shall also be the second creation.

Since none of this is even close to God's Word, then please stop. The earth does not need a rest as you are suggesting. The earth was created without form, not to rest, nor start out as a blank canvas. God seriously took His time and filled out creation in 6 24 hour time periods. Then God rested, not the earth. And God did not literally rest. God ceased creating, to allow the earth to do what it was supposed to do. That is produce.

The earth kept producing for 1000 years in a perfect sinless normal every day activity sort of way. God told Moses to Remember that 1000 year period of sinless perfection. To do that, Israel was to stop the punishment of work that God placed on Adam and rest from that punishment one day a week. They were to remember that God is Holy, and creation was once Holy. Not that creation needs to be a blank slate. The Sabbath was made as a break in the punishment given to Adam:

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

So, yes, God said man can stop working for a day each week.

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,"

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Working on the Sabbath is when man desecrates that day with the punishment and curse of sin placed on Adam. Working does not keep it Holy.

Working during the Millennium is an unknown. It will not be a curse though. Daniel 9 points out the transgression placed on Adam no longer applies. The earth was designed to produce, not sit around idle and useless.

 

[Brakelite]

Since none of this is even close to God's Word, then please stop. The earth does not need a rest as you are suggesting. The earth was created without form, not to rest, nor start out as a blank canvas. God seriously took His time and filled out creation in 6 24 hour time periods. Then God rested, not the earth. And God did not literally rest. God ceased creating, to allow the earth to do what it was supposed to do. That is produce.

The earth kept producing for 1000 years in a perfect sinless normal every day activity sort of way. God told Moses to Remember that 1000 year period of sinless perfection. To do that, Israel was to stop the punishment of work that God placed on Adam and rest from that punishment one day a week. They were to remember that God is Holy, and creation was once Holy. Not that creation needs to be a blank slate. The Sabbath was made as a break in the punishment given to Adam:

"And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

So, yes, God said man can stop working for a day each week.

"Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work,"

"For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy."

Working on the Sabbath is when man desecrates that day with the punishment and curse of sin placed on Adam. Working does not keep it Holy.

Working during the Millennium is an unknown. It will not be a curse though. Daniel 9 points out the transgression placed on Adam no longer applies. The earth was designed to produce, not sit around idle and useless.

Never mind. Didn't think you would understand and it was silly of me to attempt to offer you a different perspective than what you have settled on and determined to cleave to. All I ask is you consider this...
KJV Leviticus 26:33-35
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

This is a direct intervention by God... Nothing to do with His rest... Nothing to do with man's rest... Nothing to do with law. This is a direct intervention by God to rest the earth itself. It's God's doing. So, there a precedent. Your opening statement then...
Since none of this is even close to God's Word, then please stop.... Is unwarranted.

 

[Timtofly]

Sorry for the Long comment which is in your quote above in Blue italics. Below is a response to the last paragraph of your comment RE: the mount of Olives and Armageddon.

Feet touching down on Mount of Olives is the day of Christ, Middle of the week. Armageddon is at the end of the week. The final 3.5 years are all the day of the LORD, and the time of Jacob's trouble. The great tribulation is for the church, Jacob's trouble for Israel, that is why you do not see the sealed of the tribes of Israel come into revelation (the 144k) until the sixth seal. It is not until after the church is raptured that Zechariah 12:10-12 and other old testament prophecies begin to take place.

Earlier you said the 7th Trumpet was the rapture, and the 6th Seal was the Second Coming. Does Christ touch down at the 6th Seal to the Mount of Olives? Jesus said in the OD the sign was the coming itself. No one is given any warning signs until the sign of Christ literally being there in the clouds. Yet, Israel would not be redeemed that day. They would only be saved from their enemies. Then they would be separated, the sheep from the goats. True Israel from fake Israel. In Matthew 25 we see Christ setting up a throne and temple and the angels are gathering the house of Jacob from all over the world, including the sealing of the 144k. Then the Trumpets start sounding during this time of gathering. 1260 days is still a time period of "days". Unfortunately the 42 months of Revelation 13:5 is not this time period of the GT.

42 months splits the week (of days) of the 7th Trumpet. The Trumpet that you pointed out deals with the rapture, and "days" after the 6th Seal. The length of the GT is not known. The longer past a set time that God only knows, is the countdown to the 7th Trumpet. Remember that the 7 Thunders are between the 6th and 7th Trumpets, or the 2nd and 3rd woes.

Instead of writing down the 7 Thunders, John is told about what would happen during the days of the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10. The Trumpets and Thunders would cover 1260 days, but that countdown would start prior to the 6th Seal, which is the only sign, and the actual Second Coming. The more time that passes, we do not see the 6th Seal, the shorter the time there is for the Trumpets and Thunders. John never once gives us the days, weeks, nor years of the total time of the Trumpets and Thunders. We do know that the judgment of the 5th Trumpet does last for 5 months.

"And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them."

There will be a 5 month period at least where no one can die. This is still between the 6th Seal and the 7th Trumpet, unless you have a different place for this 5 months. Still around 153 "days". Then we have:

"And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men."

Could this mean that at the longest point, the full 1260 days, they would kill for a year? As the time gets shorter, so does the length of their ability to kill? All the way down to only an hour the longer the 6th Seal remains unopened?

As for the Thunders, after Israel is dealt with and harvested, there will be the Gentiles again, who listen to the 144k and Christ during the Trumpets. These are seeds sown along with tares. The Thunders take care of the tares, and still gathers a harvest from the Nations left on earth. Then you point out the church is the last to go finally at the sounding of that 7th Trumpet.

It is only in the week (of days, not years) of the 7th Trumpet, that Satan is given 42 months. The end of the 70th week is postponed. It will be after the 3.5 days the two witnesses lay dead in Jerusalem. Those 3.5 days are when the 7 vials are poured out. Some want the church to stay even longer during this added 42 month period.

Paul says the church leaves at the Second Coming, not a separate event, at any other time.

 

[Timtofly]

Never mind. Didn't think you would understand and it was silly of me to attempt to offer you a different perspective than what you have settled on and determined to cleave to. All I ask is you consider this...
KJV Leviticus 26:33-35
33 And I will scatter you among the heathen, and will draw out a sword after you: and your land shall be desolate, and your cities waste.
34 Then shall the land enjoy her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye be in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and enjoy her sabbaths.
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall rest; because it did not rest in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it.

This is a direct intervention by God... Nothing to do with His rest... Nothing to do with man's rest... Nothing to do with law. This is a direct intervention by God to rest the earth itself. It's God's doing. So, there a precedent. Your opening statement then...
Since none of this is even close to God's Word, then please stop.... Is unwarranted.

That has been going on since the Assyrians carried the northern 10 tribes off into all the nations of earth. Only Judah and Benjamin were allowed back after 70 years in Babylon. Then even that came to an end in 70AD when Rome finished up the work started by the Assyrians. I completely understand the desolation of Palestine for thousands of years.

This all still has nothing to do with the Millennium. The Nations and the earth itself, quite frankly were not under the Law of Moses imposed only on Israel herself. You are making the earth out to be some pagan gaia entity that deserves a 1000 year break. You are extrapolating the Word of God in the Law of Moses and turning it into the pagan practice of earth worship. That seems demonic to me, and you want me to never mind?

Is God agreeing with pagan ideology, or does pagan ideology just point out the obvious?

I am not denying the earth and soil was designed to not be over worked in any form without some adjustment to the chemical makeup. Farmers have to rotate crops and give land a rest to keep the soil productive. But to apply that to sin being a burden, and the earth needs a break from humans, that is pagan ideology. The earth needs a break from sin, not humanity. The Millennium will be Holy and set apart to God free of sin and Adam's curse. Not free of humans, that pagan thought leads to.

 

[David H.]

Earlier you said the 7th Trumpet was the rapture, and the 6th Seal was the Second Coming. Does Christ touch down at the 6th Seal to the Mount of Olives?

The sixth seal events are the precursor to the coming of the Christ. Read Revelation 6:12-14, Which is followed very closely by the rapture and the seventh trumpet. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30. These events are within hours/days of each other.

Instead of writing down the 7 Thunders, John is told about what would happen during the days of the 7th Trumpet. Revelation 10. The Trumpets and Thunders would cover 1260 days, but that countdown would start prior to the 6th Seal, which is the only sign, and the actual Second Coming. The more time that passes, we do not see the 6th Seal, the shorter the time there is for the Trumpets and Thunders. John never once gives us the days, weeks, nor years of the total time of the Trumpets and Thunders. We do know that the judgment of the 5th Trumpet does last for 5 months.

This is why the overlapping of visions is important, they add details to one another when seen correctly. Many scholars have noted the Euphrates river involved in both the sixth trumpet and the sixth vial, But cannot put them together because of their linear reading of revelation, But when put together they the trumpet precedes the vial and a story begins to emerge of those armies and who leads them (fallen angels), and where they come from. When the overlap of visions is done they add depth to one another, and details to each other that were missing before. I By No means have it all figured out as there is so much nuance to this.

Paul said in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the order of events would be as follows for the events to come. Falling away, Abomination of desolation (though he does not use this term instead the man of sin declaring himself God) and then the rapture. Jesus, in Matthew 24 has the same Order only he has the Abomination being a time of Great tribulation. Thus the Great tribulation is the first half of the week, a time of desolation as spoken of by Daniel. this will also be the time the two witnesses will be prophesying and sending Plagues upon the wicked in order to lead to repentance. One of those plagues will be the first woe, their withholding rain will lead to the fires, and the Waters becoming wormwood etc. When You see it this way all of a sudden you see the trumpets as being the same as the plagues of the two witnesses.

These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. (Revelation 11:6)

1st trumpet= and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
2nd trumpet= and the third part of the sea became blood;
3rd trumpet= And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
4th trumpet= and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

These are all Plagues of the two witnesses, if you begin to make this connection and see the overlap.

 

[Marvelloustime]

And yet tribulation came upon both believing jew and gentile in pauls day .
Tribulation cometh for the saints and not the aints . Folks need to buckle down and strap on all the armour of God .
If paul , james and others were under heavy tribulation in their days , AND YET all said the coming of the LORD draws nigh
and believed His coming was nigh . IF the mystery of inquity as both john and paul speak of , was occuring even in their days ,
Then how come NIGH the end we do get seperate tribulations . And the the great tribulation IS JUST FOR THE JEWS .
WRONG answer . Wrong answer my friends . True jerusalem , the jerusalem of GOD , IS and i do mean IS above .
And we, BY THE SPIRIT of GRACE are partakers of that kingdom . FOR the LAMB and GOD are the temple of IT .
And the SPIRIT is our ONLY CONNECTION to IT . For the SPIRIT the WORD and GOD are one .
THERE is no other end time false path to salvation . THERE is only ONE end time COMING OF JESUS .
And great tribulation , greater in number that has ever been , IS COMING FOR THE LAMBS .
Most folks are going under the R double C and the NATURAL JEWISH NATION . ALL WILL UNITE AS ONE UNDER THE BEAST .
And will hate with fury and vengeance the true lambs who did not conform to THE LIE of the STRONG WE ARE ONE DELUSION .

This is so true. The delusion that God said He will send in the end time is a very strong one. And here we are, in the end time.

 

[farouk]

This is so true. The delusion that God said He will send in the end time is a very strong one. And here we are, in the end time.

We need to keep "looking unto Jesus" (Hebrews 12.2). 1 Corininthians 11.26 says: "Till He come." Revelation 22.20 says: "Even so, come Lord Jesus".

 

[Timtofly]

1st trumpet= and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
2nd trumpet= and the third part of the sea became blood;
3rd trumpet= And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
4th trumpet= and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

These are all Plagues of the two witnesses, if you begin to make this connection and see the overlap.

You cannot put the 6 Trumpets after the 7 Thunders. You do not even know what the Thunders entail. The 6 Trumpets and 7 Thunders are prior to the 2 witnesses.

The 2 witnesses are during the 42 months when the FP and Satan have the image and the mark. People will be needing to have their heads chopped off. That is the message of the 2 witnesses.

The 2 witnesses appear in conjunction with the 7th Trumpet.