You guys have to start praying for two things: the rapture of the faith (that it be great) and deliverance from the tribulation (that it not spread)

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VCO

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You need to read your Bible more instead of listening to rogue preachers preach their own word.

Firstly, there is NO SUCH THING AS A PRE-TRIBULATIONAL RAPTURE written of in God's Word. Instead, Jesus showed in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27 that His coming to gather His saints is AFTER... the tribulation of those days. The whole Church still alive on earth WILL GO THROUGH THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Furthermore, Lord Jesus commanded His servants to WATCH the Signs of the end He gave leading up to His future return! And He specifically GAVE INSTRUCTIONS TO HIS ELECT THAT ARE DELIVERED UP TO COUNCILS AND SYNAGOGUES TO GIVE A TESTIMONY FOR HIM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT!

And lastly, the 'heavenly dimension' is going to be REVEALED RIGHT HERE ON EARTH. When Jesus gathers His FAITHFUL Church, it is only in order to go WITH HIM TO JERUSALEM, ON EARTH. Zechariah 14 TELLS YOU where Jesus' feet will touch down again upon this earth! and that is where God's Word shows He brings His faithful Church with Him to! STUDY IT or be lost!

JESUS WAS RAISED JEWISH, HE knows the JEWISH TRADITIONS for MARRIAGE BY HEART.

Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.


Jesus was Not a Englishman, so How Come you expect Him to think of an ENGLISH WEDDING, instead of a JEWISH WEDDING. GUESS where the Wedding in an Orthdox Jewish Wedding takes place ? ? ? ALWAYS in the Bridegroom's FATHER's House.

John 14:2-3 (HCSB)
2 In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you. I am going away to prepare a place for you.
3 If I go away and prepare a place for you, I will come back and receive you to Myself, so that where I am you may be also.


1 Thessalonians 5:9 (ESV)
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Revelation 6:15-17 (ESV)
15 Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains,
16 calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,
17 for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”


Revelation 3:10 (NCV)
10 You have obeyed my teaching about not giving up your faith. So I will keep you from the time of trouble that will come to the whole world to test those who live on earth.


We have to be OFF the Earth during that Time of Trouble, IN THE FATHER's HOUSE.

1682533029136.png . 1682535350846.png

We are going HOME soon!
 

Gottservant

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I'm not letting you guys up: either pray for great rapture and limited tribulation, or pray for being worthy to escape and to stand before the Son of Man?

Anything else is a waste of faith, at this point!
 

ewq1938

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Revelation 3:10 (NCV)
10 You have obeyed my teaching about not giving up your faith. So I will keep you from the time of trouble that will come to the whole world to test those who live on earth.


We have to be OFF the Earth during that Time of Trouble, IN THE FATHER's HOUSE.


No, we have to be here during the time of trouble.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
 
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Davy

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JESUS WAS RAISED JEWISH, HE knows the JEWISH TRADITIONS for MARRIAGE BY HEART.

Matthew 25:1-13 (NCV)
1 “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went to wait for the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish and five were wise.
3 The five foolish bridesmaids took their lamps, but they did not take more oil for the lamps to burn.
4 The wise bridesmaids took their lamps and more oil in jars.
5 Because the bridegroom was late, they became sleepy and went to sleep.
6 “At midnight someone cried out, ’The bridegroom is coming! Come and meet him!’
7 Then all the bridesmaids woke up and got their lamps ready.
8 But the foolish ones said to the wise, ’Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’
9 The wise bridesmaids answered, ’No, the oil we have might not be enough for all of us. Go to the people who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’
10 “So while the five foolish bridesmaids went to buy oil, the bridegroom came. The bridesmaids who were ready went in with the bridegroom to the wedding feast. Then the door was closed and locked.
11 “Later the others came back and said, ’Sir, sir, open the door to let us in.’
12 But the bridegroom answered, ’I tell you the truth, I don’t want to know you.’
13 “So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Jesus was Not a Englishman, so How Come you expect Him to think of an ENGLISH WEDDING, instead of a JEWISH WEDDING. GUESS where the Wedding in an Orthdox Jewish Wedding takes place ? ? ? ALWAYS in the Bridegroom's FATHER's House.

The Pre-trib Rapture school TRYING to use the idea of the Jewish wedding ritual as a model for a pre-tribulational rapture is a HOAX false teaching! Jesus NEVER taught a rapture in conjunction with the Jewish wedding ritual.

Jesus proclaimed the timing of His coming to gather His saints as being AFTER... THE TRIBULATION. That is what is WRITTEN in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and the Pre-trib Rapture LIARS cannot change it!


And just to show HOW BIBLICALLY IGNORANT the gullible pre-trib rapture believers are... the "many mansions" of John 14 that Lord Jesus promised His 'faithful' saints, that are in His Father's "house", IS ABOUT THE CHAMBERS OF THE PRIESTS IN THE FUTURE EZEKIEL 40-47 MILLENNIAL TEMPLE, ON EARTH!!!



Brethren in Christ Jesus:
The fate of those on the FALSE Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory from men
will be to bow in worship to the 'instead of Christ' when he comes first. That is the real meaning of the word "antichrist". A false-Messiah is coming FIRST, and he ain't gonna' be Lord Jesus Christ. That first one coming working great signs and miracles is who the Pre-tribbers will believe on, not aware that first one will be a fake, and their FALSE LEADERS that work for Satan will tell them to flee to that false-Messiah too!

How... could that happen to those pre-tribbers at the end? It's because they put their trust in 'men', and not in God in His written Word. They don't care about His Word, they only 'play' act like they care. They're too lazy mentally to stay in His Word, and prefer sideshows and whooping it up at Church instead of getting down to disciplining theirselves in God's written Word! And when they discover many others believing the LIE like they do, they think that confirms their false belief that is NOWHERE WRITTEN in God's Word!!

Apostle Paul used a couple of metaphors for those in confusion.

1 Thess 5:5-7
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us
watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
KJV
 

Davy

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Something else about the FALSE idea of the Jewish wedding feast being used to symbolize a pre-trib rapture, what symbolic TIME did Lord Jesus give for His coming, in His parable of the ten virgins?

Matt 25:6
6 And
at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
KJV


In Jesus' parable of the laborers in the field per Matthew 20, at the last hour, the ELEVENTH HOUR, workers were hired that worked that last hour only, and were paid the same pay that those who worked all day got. So what TIMING does that ELEVENTH HOUR represent for the end, do ya think?

Well, what timing is the previous hour PRIOR TO MIDNIGHT per Lord Jesus' parable of the ten virgins?

Furthermore, in the Jewish wedding feast, the bridegroom is not MARRYING the virgins, but the BRIDE. The virgins accompany the bride in the Jewish wedding ritual.
 

VCO

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The Pre-trib Rapture school TRYING to use the idea of the Jewish wedding ritual as a model for a pre-tribulational rapture is a HOAX false teaching! Jesus NEVER taught a rapture in conjunction with the Jewish wedding ritual.

Jesus proclaimed the timing of His coming to gather His saints as being AFTER... THE TRIBULATION. That is what is WRITTEN in Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, and the Pre-trib Rapture LIARS cannot change it!


And just to show HOW BIBLICALLY IGNORANT the gullible pre-trib rapture believers are... the "many mansions" of John 14 that Lord Jesus promised His 'faithful' saints, that are in His Father's "house", IS ABOUT THE CHAMBERS OF THE PRIESTS IN THE FUTURE EZEKIEL 40-47 MILLENNIAL TEMPLE, ON EARTH!!!


Brethren in Christ Jesus:
The fate of those on the FALSE Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory from men
will be to bow in worship to the 'instead of Christ' when he comes first. That is the real meaning of the word "antichrist". A false-Messiah is coming FIRST, and he ain't gonna' be Lord Jesus Christ. That first one coming working great signs and miracles is who the Pre-tribbers will believe on, not aware that first one will be a fake, and their FALSE LEADERS that work for Satan will tell them to flee to that false-Messiah too!

How... could that happen to those pre-tribbers at the end? It's because they put their trust in 'men', and not in God in His written Word. They don't care about His Word, they only 'play' act like they care. They're too lazy mentally to stay in His Word, and prefer sideshows and whooping it up at Church instead of getting down to disciplining theirselves in God's written Word! And when they discover many others believing the LIE like they do, they think that confirms their false belief that is NOWHERE WRITTEN in God's Word!!

Apostle Paul used a couple of metaphors for those in confusion.

1 Thess 5:5-7
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us
watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
KJV


NO, it is the Absolute TRUTH. You will find out, but it will be TOO Late for you to be at the WEDDING.
No, we have to be here during the time of trouble.

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life
 

VCO

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Please do not watch this Video if you are a Mocker or Scoffer of the Pretribulation Rapture. This will encourage my Brethren.
I want to Introduce you to Dr. Zola Levitt, whom the LORD called him HOME, via a Video that still is on the computer. This was a Program that I used to watch every week. It had a major influence on my Pre-Trib views. Just Click on the white Arrow on the Video.


Below are some of my Commentaries on 2 Pet 3:2-4
may be they too will encourage you.


14:2 The Father's house refers to heaven, where there are many dwelling places. There is room there for all the redeemed. If it were not so, the Lord would have told them; He would not have them build on false hopes. "I go to prepare a place for you" may have two meanings. The Lord Jesus went to Calvary to prepare a place for His own. It is through His atoning death that believers are assured a place there. But also the Lord went back to heaven to prepare a place. We do not know very much about this place, but we know that provision is being made for every child of God—"a prepared place for a prepared people!"
14:3 Verse 3 refers to the time when the Lord will come back again into the air, when those who have died in faith will be raised, when the living will be changed, and when all the blood-bought throng will be taken home to heaven (1 Thess. 4:13-18; 1 Cor. 15:51-58). This is a personal, literal coming of Christ. As surely as He went away, He will come again. His desire is to have His own with Him for all eternity.
Believer's Bible Commentary: A Thorough, Yet Easy-to-Read Bible Commentary That Turns Complicated Theology Into Practical Understanding.

14:2 mansions. Lit. dwelling places, rooms, or even apartments (in modern terms). All are in the large “Father’s house.”
14:2, 3 I go to prepare. Jesus’ departure would be for their advantage since He was going away to prepare a heavenly home for them and would return to take them so that they might be with Him. This is one of the passages that refers to the Rapture of the saints at the end of the age when Christ returns. The features in this description do not describe Christ coming to earth with His saints to establish His kingdom (Rev. 19:11-15), but rather taking believers from earth to live in heaven. Since no judgment on the unsaved is described here, this is not the event of His return in glory and power to destroy the wicked (cf. Matt. 13:36-43, 47-50). Rather, this describes His coming to gather His own who are alive and to raise the bodies of those who have died to take them all to heaven. This rapture event is also described in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. After being raptured, the church will celebrate the marriage supper (Rev. 19:7-10), be rewarded (1 Cor. 3:10-15; 4:5; 2 Cor. 5:9, 10), and later return to earth with Christ when He comes again to set up His kingdom (Rev. 19:11-20:6).
The MacArthur Bible Commentary.


Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts [2Pet. 3:3].
"Knowing this first" -- this was something they were to know first of all.
"There shall come in the last days" -- these are the days in which you and I live, and they will continue on into the Great Tribulation period after the church is gone from the earth.
"Scoffers" will be the apostates whom he described so vividly back in chapter 2. These scoffers evidently will be members of churches, and many of them pastors, who will be "walking after their own lusts," their own desires, not attempting to follow the Word of God. You see, it is this type of person who attacks the truths of the Bible. If a man is willing to forsake his sins and is willing to receive Christ, God will make His Word real to him. Paul, writing in 2Corinthians 3, said that a veil is over their minds; but if their hearts will turn to God, the veil will be removed. Their problem is not intellectual; their problem is heart trouble. And so they put forward a false argument
And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation [2Pet. 3:4].
"Where is the promise of his coming?" In other words, they will say something like this, "Some of you premillennial folk have been saying for years that the Lord Jesus is going to come back and take the church out of the world, and then after a seven-year period of tribulation, He will come to the earth to establish His Kingdom. Well, where is He? Why hasn't He come?" They are going to scoff at it. The second coming of Christ will be denied -- not only by the atheist or Communist standing out yonder on a soap box, but it will also be denied by those who stand in the pulpit and profess to be believers.
Now what did the Old Testament prophets write about? They wrote about the coming of Christ to the earth to establish His Kingdom. What did the New Testament apostles write about? They wrote about Christ's coming to take the church out of the world and then, after the Great Tribulation, about His coming to the earth to establish His Kingdom. Notice that the Old Testament prophets did not write about the church -- not one of them did. They wrote only about His coming to earth to establish His Kingdom.
It was the Lord Jesus Himself who first revealed that He would be coming for His own. He said, as recorded in John, "...I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself..." (John 14:2-3). The place He was going to prepare was not down here. It was not on the other side of the Mount of Olives -- if you doubt that, go look at it; it is a desolate place. Our Lord went back to heaven, and that is where He is preparing a place for us. And He promised to come back for us. In 1Thessalonians 4:17, we are told that we will meet Him in the air.
Let me repeat: The prophecy in the Old Testament of Christ's coming was to establish His Kingdom upon the earth; the prophecy in the New Testament of His coming was first to take His church out of the world and then to come to establish His Kingdom upon the earth
"For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation." This is the "proof" which the scoffers will offer, and, by the way, it is the most prevalent argument given in our day. "The fathers" would refer all the way back to father Adam.
The scoffers adopt the doctrine of laissez faire or let's continue with the status quo. Nothing unusual has happened in the past. Things have just progressed along. Man has evolved, and things have come along gently and nicely in the past. Peter is going to say, "That's where you are absolutely wrong. If you think nothing has happened in the past, let me tell you about it!"
Thru The Bible with J. Vernon McGee.
 

Davy

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NO, it is the Absolute TRUTH. You will find out, but it will be TOO Late for you to be at the WEDDING.
Nah... the Pre-trib Rapture school trying... to use the Jewish wedding ritual to point to Christ's future return prior to the great tribulation is nothing but a HOAX. Jesus never taught any such idea!

Like Lord Jesus showed, those in Christ represent the 'children of the bridechamber', NOT the bride!

Matt 9:14-15
14 Then came to Him the disciples of John, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but Thy disciples fast not?"

15
And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."
KJV

Who is the BRIDE then when Jesus comes?

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw
the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV

Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying,
Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV

God having married Jerusalem (earthly) and then putting her away, is one of the subjects of the Old Testament prophets. The new Jerusalem that will descend down to this earth out of Heaven is His Bride now.

Read your Bible silly, and quit playing church with those preachers who refuse to stay in God's written Word and couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag!
 

VCO

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Nah... the Pre-trib Rapture school trying... to use the Jewish wedding ritual to point to Christ's future return prior to the great tribulation is nothing but a HOAX. Jesus never taught any such idea!

Like Lord Jesus showed, those in Christ represent the 'children of the bridechamber', NOT the bride!

Matt 9:14-15
14 Then came to Him the disciples of John, saying, "Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but Thy disciples fast not?"

15
And Jesus said unto them, "Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast."
KJV

Who is the BRIDE then when Jesus comes?

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw
the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV

Rev 21:9-10
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying,
Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
KJV

God having married Jerusalem (earthly) and then putting her away, is one of the subjects of the Old Testament prophets. The new Jerusalem that will descend down to this earth out of Heaven is His Bride now.

Read your Bible silly, and quit playing church with those preachers who refuse to stay in God's written Word and couldn't find their way out of a wet paper bag!

You do know that the KJV is not an actual Translation from the original languages, it was an update from 5 older versions of the ENGLISH BIBLES, to the English, spoken by the People of King James day. Read the Original 1611 PREFACE, and that is what the translators said about their VERSION of the Bible.

They updated 5 older English Texts, and checked it against the Latin Bible, and the Septuagint. That's all they did, which makes it a Paraphrased Version of the Bible with known errors.

Here is an actual Translation from the oldest original language texts.

Matthew 9:15 (HCSB)
15 Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests be sad while the groom is with them? The time will come when the groom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast.

I am not here to see if you can convince me otherwise, than I have been taught by very Learned men. I am here to share with you the Truth of what the Bible actually says. You don't want to hear what is SAYS, no skin of my nose.

Believe what you want, and I will Believe what the Bible actually Says.

Even the NKJV corrected that error in the KJV.

Matthew 9:15 (NKJV)
15 And Jesus said to them, "Can the friends of the bridegroom mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast.

The betrothal Cup was not placed in front of the John the Apostle until the third Cup in the Last Supper. That is the traditional way of Preposing.
 
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Davy

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You do know that the KJV is not an actual Translation from the original languages, it was an update from 5 older versions of the ENGLISH BIBLES, to the English, spoken by the People of King James day. Read the Original 1611 PREFACE, and that is what the translators said about their VERSION of the Bible.
Oh no, not lies from the secularist, humanist, Textual Critics again!

The 1611 King James Version is based on the Traditional Greek texts which exist in Majority of Greek manuscripts (speaking of The New Testament of course). Erasmus who did the Textus Receptus translation from those Greek texts was not the 'only' manuscripts the KJV translators referred to, and this can be 'learned' in their Letter To The Reader in the 1st edition 1611 KJV Bible.

And yes, there were previous Bible versions based on those Traditional Greek texts from the Byzantine tradition, also, but the KJV was definitely NOT an update... of any of those other versions. That is a lie from the secularists who hate the KJV Bible.
 

Gottservant

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We all have a different response to the Rapture; but we have a mostly similar response to the tribulation.

Again, Jesus says pray "that you are found worthy to escape and to stand before the Son of Man"

Again, I say pray "pray that the Rapture be great and the tribulation limited"
 

Davy

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We all have a different response to the Rapture; but we have a mostly similar response to the tribulation.

Again, Jesus says pray "that you are found worthy to escape and to stand before the Son of Man"

Again, I say pray "pray that the Rapture be great and the tribulation limited"
You didn't mention specifically the phrase 'pre-tribulational' about the kind of rapture you're talking about. That's what you are wrongly pushing, because that idea is from men's doctrines, not written anywhere in God's Word.

So wishful thinking is no excuse to NOT heed our Lord and Savior's Word about the 'end'. And His Word per Matthew 24 and Mark 13 is that His coming to gather His Church is AFTER... the tribulation, not before.

Furthermore, His idea of escaping temptation (Rev.3:10) is NOT about physical escape, it is about SPIRITUAL escape by NOT being tempted. Tempted by what? By this that is coming at the end during the tribulation...

Matt 24:23-26
23
Then if any man shall say unto you, "Lo, here is Christ, or there"; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, "Behold, He is in the desert"; go not forth: "behold, He is in the secret chambers"; believe it not.
KJV

By what Jesus said above in red, it reveals He was pointing to the coming a 'singular' false-Messiah that is going to play The Christ.

Apostle Paul showed the same idea for the end...


2 Thess 2:1-4
2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

And also in that same 2 Thess.2 chapter...

2 Thess 2:8-10
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9
Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
KJV


That ain't about a pope either. Paul is pointing to a FALSE-CHRIST coming to Jerusalem for the end.

Apostle John warned us about this for the end also...


Rev 13:11-15
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13
And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
KJV


When are you guys going to read your Bible instead of listening to men's doctrines leading you astray? Those men are like the old fake potion sellers of the old West.
 

Gottservant

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I'm simply apportioning faith first to what I want to see, then to what I don't (that may take what I want to see away).

"Count it all joy" "be watchful".

Whether we are the anti-Christ himself, or any other sinner, we are all going to be tested for our faith (at this time), if then Christ has said by faith "please pray", what is it to you that someone says "pray please"?

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm mindful that brothers need to uphold their own with prayer. If I wanted to start a fight, I would provoke you unfairly, I'm not doing that, I'm saying please don't leave us out in the cold (pray).
 

Davy

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I'm simply apportioning faith first to what I want to see, then to what I don't (that may take what I want to see away).

"Count it all joy" "be watchful".

Whether we are the anti-Christ himself, or any other sinner, we are all going to be tested for our faith (at this time), if then Christ has said by faith "please pray", what is it to you that someone says "pray please"?

I'm not trying to start a fight, I'm mindful that brothers need to uphold their own with prayer. If I wanted to start a fight, I would provoke you unfairly, I'm not doing that, I'm saying please don't leave us out in the cold (pray).
Well that reminds me of the story about the Christian stuck on his house roof during a huge flood of waters. The first guy comes by in a boat and offers to rescue the Christian, but he says, "No thanks. I prayed that God will save me." And then a helicopter comes by to rescue him, and he says again, "No thanks, I've prayed to God and He will save me."

And then the flood waters rise above the roof and he drowns. Then in Heaven he asks Peter why didn't God save him? And Peter said, well we sent you a boat, and then a helicopter, but you wouldn't get in!
 

Gottservant

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I've been reading in Romans about not causing a brother to stumble, that is, not eating things that would cause offence. But I really think it works the other way when it comes to prayer. We are not told "pray if it is ok to pray", we are told "pray without ceasing" - if then I give you something to pray, while you are praying, what is it to you that you do good to a brother? You will at some point have the desire to pray: that is a good thing! I'm not hurt that you don't, so much as confused - why are we asked to pray without ceasing, and love one another, if at some point I can't ask you to pray something specific? I'm on the verge of stumbing myself.
 

VCO

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I've been reading in Romans about not causing a brother to stumble, that is, not eating things that would cause offence. But I really think it works the other way when it comes to prayer. We are not told "pray if it is ok to pray", we are told "pray without ceasing" - if then I give you something to pray, while you are praying, what is it to you that you do good to a brother? You will at some point have the desire to pray: that is a good thing! I'm not hurt that you don't, so much as confused - why are we asked to pray without ceasing, and love one another, if at some point I can't ask you to pray something specific? I'm on the verge of stumbing myself.

Something else, that I learned in the early 90s. If we are involved with Prayer for our Christian Brothers and Sisters, GOD will take care of us.
 
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Timtofly

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Well that reminds me of the story about the Christian stuck on his house roof during a huge flood of waters. The first guy comes by in a boat and offers to rescue the Christian, but he says, "No thanks. I prayed that God will save me." And then a helicopter comes by to rescue him, and he says again, "No thanks, I've prayed to God and He will save me."

And then the flood waters rise above the roof and he drowns. Then in Heaven he asks Peter why didn't God save him? And Peter said, well we sent you a boat, and then a helicopter, but you wouldn't get in!
So you plan on staying on the roof, while all others are removed from the earth? You claim post removal from your roof. You missed the boat, the church. You missed the helicopter, the sheep and wheat. You plan on sitting on your roof and watching the whole event?
 

VCO

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So you plan on staying on the roof, while all others are removed from the earth? You claim post removal from your roof. You missed the boat, the church. You missed the helicopter, the sheep and wheat. You plan on sitting on your roof and watching the whole event?

Scoffers will COME ! ! !

Jude 1:18-19 (ESV)
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

You see WE Believe in KEEPING READY and our Lamps Lit as HE HAD COMMANDED, so that No Matter when time frame the Rapture, happens to me, we WILL BE READY to go the WEDDING OF THE LAMB. So what excuse do you think HE will buy, if you are not READY?

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Luke 12:35 (NRSV)
35 "Be dressed for action and have your lamps lit;

So why do you make fun of those who are ready for the LORD, our Bride Groom, who are ready to go at a moment's notice to the Wedding of the Lamb ? ? ?
 

Timtofly

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Scoffers will COME ! ! !

Jude 1:18-19 (ESV)
18 They said to you, “In the last time there will be scoffers, following their own ungodly passions.”
19 It is these who cause divisions, worldly people, devoid of the Spirit.

You see WE Believe in KEEPING READY and our Lamps Lit as HE HAD COMMANDED, so that No Matter when time frame the Rapture, happens to me, we WILL BE READY to go the WEDDING OF THE LAMB. So what excuse do you think HE will buy, if you are not READY?

Matthew 25:13 (NCV)
13 So always be ready, because you don’t know the day or the hour the Son of Man will come.

Luke 12:35 (NRSV)

35 "Be dressed for action and have your lamps lit;

So why do you make fun of those who are ready for the LORD, our Bride Groom, who are ready to go at a moment's notice to the Wedding of the Lamb ? ? ?
It was his example. It was his point. Was he scoffing when he posted it?

Do you plan on being left on earth after the 6th Seal? Why scoff at these people:

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

If one is prepared, they know who withstands the wrath of God. The point is, that "When Jesus as King is on the earth, the church will have already gone". Only those whom God chooses to save will be able to still stand without being destroyed. How does one prepare when it is God's choice, not their's?

The scoffers are those left behind who mocked those proclaiming the truth. No need to scoff at the scoffers. Especially those who plan on doing it all on their own and enduring until the very end. The word enduring implies on one's own power, no?

Endure: suffer (something painful or difficult) patiently.
 

VCO

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It was his example. It was his point. Was he scoffing when he posted it?

Do you plan on being left on earth after the 6th Seal? Why scoff at these people:

"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

If one is prepared, they know who withstands the wrath of God. The point is, that "When Jesus as King is on the earth, the church will have already gone". Only those whom God chooses to save will be able to still stand without being destroyed. How does one prepare when it is God's choice, not their's?

The scoffers are those left behind who mocked those proclaiming the truth. No need to scoff at the scoffers. Especially those who plan on doing it all on their own and enduring until the very end. The word enduring implies on one's own power, no?

Endure: suffer (something painful or difficult) patiently.

Scoffers are those who think they have the Truth, but in reality do not.