Thoughts about using a KJV update?

[Bible Highlighter]

So what makes the Alexandrian text and the Masorectic text corrupted to the point where you don't consider they are worthy for biblical translations?

Oz

See post #254, post #255, and post #256 as a warm up. I actually have 101 reasons why the King James Bible is the Word of God, but I have not made a complete professional write up with verses on all my reasons yet.

 

[Grailhunter]

According to the Wikipedia article source you did not read, it says:

These accounts depict a flood, sometimes global in scale, usually sent by a deity or deities to destroy civilization as an act of divine retribution.

In other words, they loosely relate to the actual true story of the global flood that you deny.

Like I said, I was not sure. I just do not see people looking for a "Noah type boat" in North or South America.
I do not deny that there was a flood, there is a lot of evidence of this on that side of the ocean.

But knowing these things alone does not equate to our having faith in Jesus Christ according to the Bible.
Yes, I am aware that we can know of God's existence by nature. But just knowing God's existence is not enough to be saved, and or in having a right relationship with Him.

I agree with that I am mostly pointing out that the scriptures are mostly relating...specifically to the middle east. The scriptures mention the world but nothing specific that the people of the middle east would know.

One is either radical for Christ, or they are not. There is no inbetween. One either hot or they are cold.

LOL I am hot but you seem to focus on the first 65 years of Christianity as I take into consideration that God has been interacting with us for 2000 years.

If you don't have the Bible (a book) today (or words from the Bible), then you cannot know God.

How wrong can you possibly be. Some early Christians heard the Words from Christ and the Apostles and they did not have a Bible and they were saved. Bound "Bibles" did not occur for another 350 years....how many were saved. In third countries "hear" the word because they cannot read it, and they are saved.

Any god that is not the God of the Bible is another false god. The true GOD is revealed in Holy Scripture and not in any other religion. Again, do you believe you can be saved without the Bible or without words from the Bible? If so that would not be Christianity.

I disagree you might look at the history of Christianity in China or North Vietnam.

I asked you what do you have as a better alternative to the Holy Bible (King James Bible). You said the actual Scriptures. Do you care to elaborate on what Scriptures that might be?

Well to go along with your question I use the NASB, or NIV or the HCSB, but if there is any question I have books of photocopies of the older manuscripts and I refer to them. It is not a secret you can buy them.

I asked you about your view of sin that you felt was superior to my understanding on it. I was desiring for you to help not only me but other believers who may come across this forum looking for the truth so that you may edify or build them up in Christ Jesus.

Are you really seeking that....LOL There are a lot of false beliefs that have developed over the centuries. Man-made sins and such.
I have an article on man-made sins in Grailhunter's Corner. Biblical sins are listed in the Bible....man-made sins are not.

Now it sounds like you want to hold all the cards and keep the secret knowledge to yourself. It does not sound like Christianity to me, friend. It's like one being a member of secret society or something.

Biblical sins are not secret, they are listed in the Bible....
2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

What's that supposed to mean? Are you saying that there are man made sins that Christianity has invented

Yes invented man-made sins. As time went on people trying to say they are "holier" than others by what they don't do. It is like putting rings on your arm that list the things you don's do to be righteous before God. As it is Christianity has become a don't doers religion. All this sins they have developed but not a lot of focus on what we should be doing. Christ's commandments....what do you do to love your neighbor. James talked about that, you come a cross a guy cold and hungry....You say peace be with you and keep on going. It is the focus that is lacking for what it means to love your neighbor. Good Deeds has almost become a bad term in Christianity....Read the Sheep and the Goats parable and what happens to those people that do not help.

Perhaps you missed my many posts attacking Calvinism in another thread you posted at, as well.

No, I was just kidding.

 

[Grailhunter]

But again, criticism of false beliefs is not a unique identifier exclusive to a cult. You yourself have stated I am not a cult and that I am not using cultic tactics.

I am assuming this is to me
Sounds like you are using cult tactics....You may not be doing on purpose.

No. There is no such thing as a one man cult. That's not how the word is defined normally. A cult generally must at least involve two people or more with one person following the other as their master (of whom they have controlled and brainwashed to believe odd things that are unhealthy). That's a cult.

Maybe I should rephrase that....People come up with cult like beliefs on their own. But you are right it takes more than one person to be a cult.

So you were not in disagreement with me on this word?
So then why all the fuss about this before if you agreed with me on the meaning?
Did you just now learn about this?
Also: Why is attempted sodomy funny to you?
You used the LOL symbol to indicate that this event is funny somehow.

I do take it seriously regarding words that are not in the Bible. Funny, because you think someone could have sex with an angel. That is whatz funny. Thou shalt not attempt to have sex with an angel. Kind of goes without saying.

Sodomy....But the problem is the word you got going on in your head that is not in the Bible....There is no telling what you think it means.

Yes, we the audience know that the angels were not in any danger. That does not undo the sodomy that the inhabitants of Sodom were trying to attempt against them, though. It was still a sin that is exceptionally grievous to God whereby the city was destroyed by fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed and rightly so.

You obviously missed the point of the story. I will let the Bible spell it out for you.

Ok topic dropped.

And here you go back to full bible agnostic mode in denying what the Bible says. A moment ago, you appeared to accept what the story said. Now you are rejecting it. So then you become the arbiter of truth and not the Bible. You become the authority and not God. In your view: There is no perfect Bible and so you must decide and pick and choose your own adventure of what you like to see in the Bible.

Back on again....Trying to get you to define what you think Sodomy is.

GOD decides what is true or false by His Word (the Bible).

true and false might not be the right words......stars falling to earth....hate your mother and father to be a disciple of Christ....slaves obey your masters...have you given everything own away and walk around homeless with nothing but the shirt on your back....I can't imagine your beliefs regarding women.

But you get to be the authority or the scholar gets to be the authority if you deny a perfect Bible.

There are no perfect Bibles....nothing on this planet is perfect.

So if you are against the Catholic church, you will favor the one and only Bible that is not influenced by Rome and that is the King James Bible.

You so funny.

Jesus said abide in me and my words. Jesus said man shall not live by bread alone but by every word of God.

Ya got to believe that! Do you hate your mother and father?....Do your slaves obey you?

 

[Robert Gwin]

@Robert Gwin

You quoted me, but it did not turn out correctly. I cannot decipher your words from my own.

Here is a helpful video on multi quoting.

I guess I will just rephrase sir, you believe Jesus is God, no doubt you have formed that opinion because of your choosing the KJV of the Bible. That is not a Bible teaching sir. In order to be preserved through the great tribulation you have to know God, 2 Thes 1:8.

We live in the age of information, and learning who God is, is not a difficult task. Who did Jesus say God is? Who did Jesus say he himself was?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The church will be caught away prior to the tribulation.

God kinda likes His bride.

Only sicko's will allow their girls to be ravaged by atrocities they could have prevented before marrying them in shambles.

You are correct Truth, those of the Covenant, the bride of Christ. Most of them have already been resurrected Rev 20:6, but those left alive will meet the Lord in the air when he returns 1 Thes 4:17

 

[Truther]

You are correct Truth, those of the Covenant, the bride of Christ. Most of them have already been resurrected Rev 20:6, but those left alive will meet the Lord in the air when he returns 1 Thes 4:17

Yes. I just know the groom will not allow the bride to enter his wrath before the wedding. He will rescue her prior to the Tribulation

 

[Robert Gwin]

Well thanks for looking into it. I got to tell you that it is a deep topic and you can dig deeper and the internet is not the best place. First off scholars are not in agreement as to why the New Testament was written mostly in Greek but the best explanation that I heard is that since the Septuagint was written in Greek and Greek was the prevalent language of the time and was more precise than Latin the Apostles chose to write in Greek. And the topic of scribes come up as to who put the ink to the "paper"

The early copies of the Gospels did not have titles like "The Gospel of Matthew" The storyline usually gave you an indication of who was responsible. As far as Christ's name, as with a lot of the issues the Apostles had with the Greek language, they had to contend with a language that was Pagan, no Hebrew equivalent for some words and names and void of some Christian terms. So they used Greek words and modified the definitions at times. The word sin is a good example...If you told a Roman soldier that he sinned, it meant that his arrow missed the target, no religious context. Lucky for them it has a similar meaning in Hebrew...except missing God's mark.

In relation to Yeshua, the Greek word for His name more or less meant honorable man. The internet again is not much help here because references are inconsistent but most will tell you that Iésous mean "anointed one" well anointed one is the definition of Messiah. LOL That would pertain to Christos and Christ. So the Greek language is mostly only going to be accurate about Greek names. Most of the Apostles had Hebrew names so the Hebrew names are all that matters and can be spelt and pronounced in English very closely. So there is no reason not to pronounce God the Father's name and God the Son's name in the English phonic equivalent of the Hebrew.

There are two ways to correctly refer to Christ's name, Yeshua and Yehoshua because Christ's name is kind of like Ed and Edward and can be translated to God is salvation or Yahweh is salvation....something along those lines. Now the funny here is that you have probably heard, as I have that Christ's name was a common name in the OT and NT, well that would be Yeshua in both testament periods, rendered either Jeshua or Joshua after the "J" slam, but again no J.s actually in the scriptures.



LOL The "the" is very important for correctness....Yeshua the Messiah.



What you are referencing here is the tetragrammaton YHWH or the Tetragram. The first "word" used to replace God's name in the scriptures. Now it does not take much research to realize that they called God different names. The "common name" was "EL" and when they were naming a shrine or place after God they would use El this or El that.



Scholars do not agree on how God's name was originally written. They do look at how Pagan societies wrote His name in stone or Stelae, because they had no restrictions and it still comes out as Yahweh, sometime replacing the W with a V. And you were talking about how many time His name occurred in the OT, the tetragrammaton occurred a little less that 6,000 times and all the other names of God pushes it well over 6,000 times.

Another interesting point is that the footprint of the "J" slam is that it only effects the first letter of the words in the Bible. Taking out the Y's and replacing them with J's.

I agree with you Grail with the exception of God's name. El is not a name rather it is Hebrew for God, as Theos is in Greek. YHWH was His name in Hebrew, and yes like you said it it called the Tetragrammaton. God does not have multiple names, although He does have many titles, YHWH was selected by Him personally and is His only name listed in the Bible.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I guess I will just rephrase sir, you believe Jesus is God, no doubt you have formed that opinion because of your choosing the KJV of the Bible.

Nope. I initially chose the King James Bible because I noticed a corruption for the worse and not for the better with Modern English Translations. It's not that I don't use Modern bibles. I do. But they are not my final Word of authority. Since my many years as a believer, I have found more reasons to stick to the King James Bible as the pure Word of God and not less. I have come up with 101 reasons for the KJB being the pure Word of God for today.

Anyways, the teaching that Jesus is God is not exclusive to the King James Bible. Such a teaching is found even in Modern Bibles (Although some Modern bibles do attack the deity of Christ of which I am sure you prefer). All Modern Bibles come from Rome, and they come from the work of two men (Westcott and Hort) who held to heretical beliefs (Including Catholicism). There are subtle changes in Modern bibles that favors the Catholic church and their teachings.

Jesus is eternal and uncreated. He came into the flesh. For the Word who was God (John 1:1) was made flesh (John 1:14). Many believe Jesus was a created dem-god in the Incarnation. But this is a denial of Jesus (the Eternal Logos) coming into the flesh.

1 John 4:3 says:
“And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.”

Jesus said, “if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.” (John 8:24).

The word “he” is not in the Greek. So Jesus is saying, that if we do not believe He is the “I AM,” we will die in our sins. For in the following scene in Scripture: We learn that when Jesus declared Himself to be the Great “I AM” in Exodus chapter 3, the Jews went ape crazy and wanted to stone him over it.

“Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.” (John 8:57-59).

There are tons of reasons why Jesus is GOD.

You can check out the many points in Scripture for this here.

That is not a Bible teaching sir. In order to be preserved through the great tribulation you have to know God, 2 Thes 1:8.

You are assuming that I don't know God. Only God can truly know this and the individual. But every believer who knows God keeps His commandments (1 John 2:3). The person who says they know God and yet they don't keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in Him (1 John 2:4).

We live in the age of information, and learning who God is, is not a difficult task. Who did Jesus say God is? Who did Jesus say he himself was?

Mirror reflected back at you. I can say the same for you. I agree that we live in an age of information which makes us without excuse, but that does not mean you are correct in denying the plain biblical teaching that Jesus is God. Christian men for hundreds of years had the King James Bible long before the Modern Bibles showed up with the heresy that denied that Jesus is God. Your trying to tell me that God would intentionally mislead many Christian believers for hundreds of years with a false bible? Yeah, I am not buying that. But you can. Good luck on explaining to the Lord Jesus would you denied how He is the I AM.

To deny Jesus is GOD is to deny who God is.
This is a very dangerous place to be.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The word “he” is not in the Greek. So Jesus is saying, that if we do not believe He is the “I AM,”

You are wrong here friend.

Applying this faulty logic elsewhere in the scriptures we then have the blind man that Jesus cured claiming he was the “I am” as well:

“The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged? Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.” (John 9:8-9)

“he” at the end of the verse is not in the Greek either.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Bible Highlighter

And here, after answering the Pharisees question with “I am”, he proceeds to identify himself by “Son of man”, not “God”.

“But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.” (Mark 14:61-62)

 

[Grailhunter]

I agree with you Grail with the exception of God's name. El is not a name rather it is Hebrew for God, as Theos is in Greek. YHWH was His name in Hebrew, and yes like you said it it called the Tetragrammaton. God does not have multiple names, although He does have many titles, YHWH was selected by Him personally and is His only name listed in the Bible.

That gets a little sticky.....According to Jewish tradition, the number of divine names that require the scribe's special care is seven: El, Elohim, Adonai, YHWH, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh, Shaddai, Tzevaot, and will include Yahweh. Are they names or designations. And the funny...look up God in the strong's and note the different definitions and look up goddess

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Like I said, I was not sure. I just do not see people looking for a "Noah type boat" in North or South America.
I do not deny that there was a flood, there is a lot of evidence of this on that side of the ocean.

While you say you are not sure, it sounds like you lean more towards a local flood. I did not say you denied there was a flood. The issue I had concerning your belief was not whether a flood happened according to Genesis, but the issue was whether the flood was local or global. Seeing most people on our planet believe local floods have happened, they would not think it is all too amazing if a local flood was the actual event that happened in the narrative of Noah and the Ark. Genesis 7 makes it clear that the flood was global and not local. Only a person who likes to think in a carnal or worldly way will insert the man made idea into the Bible that the flood was local.

I agree with that I am mostly pointing out that the scriptures are mostly relating...specifically to the middle east. The scriptures mention the world but nothing specific that the people of the middle east would know.

But that's not how it was worded in the text. Nowhere does the Bible teach that “all the high hills under the whole heaven” is a certain region.

LOL I am hot

But you don't seem to take His Word too seriously because you say it has errors in it. I am sure God will not be amused by your telling Him you thought His Word was error-ridden.

but you seem to focus on the first 65 years of Christianity as I take into consideration that God has been interacting with us for 2000 years.

So you don't think God has not been interacting with believers for the past 2,000 years? Are you saying that the Lord does not live in the hearts of believers and guides them over the past 2,000 years?

How wrong can you possibly be. Some early Christians heard the Words from Christ and the Apostles and they did not have a Bible and they were saved. Bound "Bibles" did not occur for another 350 years....how many were saved. In third countries "hear" the word because they cannot read it, and they are saved.

Noah did not have the Incarnate Word or Jesus to interact with, and therefore his experience with God was different. Nobody is being commanded to build a boat to avoid a global flood today. So you are confusing different epochs or periods of time with body of believers throughout time. Different time means different instructions and it can even mean a different way of how God communicates to us. For God has written two tablets of stone with His own finger for the Israelites. But God is not doing that today. God communicates to us today by His Word (the Holy Bible). To not understand this in my opinion means one has not had an actual spiritual experience with our Lord Jesus Christ in seeking forgiveness of one's sins according to the Bible and seeing His Word become alive to them. To doubt the Bible means one never really had faith in it to begin with or they fell away from the faith because of some tragedy or false teaching. I don't know your situation or case, and so I cannot say. It's not really my place to say, either. Only God can be your judge ultimately. I am just a messenger of His Word and I am merely relaying to you what it says. If you don't accept all of His Word, that is on you. But that is a dangerous place to be if you do. For nobody who desires to follow Jesus and His Word will speak against the Word. You appear to mock the idea of the Bible being the one and only way for GOD to communicated to us. If God wanted to communicated some other way, then the Bible is not really necessary.

I disagree you might look at the history of Christianity in China or North Vietnam.

I am not going to do the work to prove a belief you want to be true. The burden of proof of providing evidence is on you to make such a case. Again, the Bible is absolutely unnecessary if God communicated some other way outside the Bible. But if the Bible is how God communicates to us, then that is the one and only way we can truly know Him today. Yes, I am aware of people saying they had a vision of Jesus, etcetera.... but I don't believe all these visions are genuine. In my experience: When I read these accounts, they always contradict the Bible in some way.

Well to go along with your question I use the NASB, or NIV or the HCSB, but if there is any question I have books of photocopies of the older manuscripts and I refer to them. It is not a secret you can buy them.

Not all manuscripts agree with each other. Not all Modern Translations agree with each other. So you the reader become the authority to decide which words you prefer in one manuscript you like and which words you like in a particular translation you think is preferable to your mindset instead of submitting to one specific authority or Bible that you cannot change that has been time tested before the Revisers hoodwinked people to think they can play silly putty with the Bible.

(Continued in next post):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you really seeking that....LOL There are a lot of false beliefs that have developed over the centuries. Man-made sins and such.
I have an article on man-made sins in Grailhunter's Corner. Biblical sins are listed in the Bible....man-made sins are not.

I am not impressed by your list (of which I believe was formed from carnal worldly thinking).
Take for example: Halloween. You don't think that's a problem.

Halloween is a pagan holiday that promotes the sin of witchcraft, murderers, mindless death, demons, etc.; I think Christians do not like to think about how God required witches to be put to death in the Old Testament. But it happened. Granted, in the New Testament, we are to love and do good towards our enemies, but the point here is that Halloween is a glorification of evil. Why would God be in favor us supporting a day where people glorify witches and evil? It’s silly. No offense to anyone here, but those Christians who do not see it are simply worldly focused and they are not seeking to pick up their cross, deny themselves as Jesus said ~ IMO. I know. I used to be in their shoes and think the same way. But at that time in my life, I would consider my focus to be concerned more about myself, and my pleasures, vs. truly seeking God and making Him happy in this life by my thoughts, and actions (According to His Word). In other words, they want Jesus their way, and not on God’s terms.

I don’t think Christians should even hand out candy or open their doors to give tracts on this day because it would be an acknowledgement to the practice of such a day itself (Which is a day of glorifying evil). This is a big one. Does the Lord want us to glorify evil and darkness and be a part of the world?

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:15-17).

Side Note:

Believers can give tracts or tell others about the gospel in other ways on that day that is not tied to the holiday. They can just give the tracts to a store clerk, or somebody in a store parking lot, etc.; They can love their neighbor in other ways without having to involve themselves in the holiday practice itself. But the draw of this world is strong. To break away from this world is difficult for many. For some, it is impossible, and thus they simply will never see what I am talking about here.

Biblical sins are not secret, they are listed in the Bible....
2nd Corinthians :5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Yes, they are but it takes spiritual discernment in growing in maturity in Christ to know good from the evil.

“But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” (Hebrews 5:14).

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Galatians 5:21 “Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Yes, I quote these verses often to many Christians today who justify sin on some level.

Yes invented man-made sins. As time went on people trying to say they are "holier" than others by what they don't do. It is like putting rings on your arm that list the things you don's do to be righteous before God.
As it is Christianity has become a don't doers religion. All this sins they have developed but not a lot of focus on what we should be doing.

By your statement here it merely shows you approach this topic the same way you do Genesis. You try to cram the idea that we came from apes into Genesis. This shows me that your thinking is still yet carnal. So I think you are not currently capable of understanding this topic at this point in time on a spiritual level. So it's not really something that is going to benefit you if I discuss it with you. You have to first receive the milk of the Word before moving on to the meat.

Christ's commandments....what do you do to love your neighbor. James talked about that, you come a cross a guy cold and hungry....You say peace be with you and keep on going. It is the focus that is lacking for what it means to love your neighbor. Good Deeds has almost become a bad term in Christianity....Read the Sheep and the Goats parable and what happens to those people that do not help.

Right, we are living in the end times apostasy. Many distort God's Word to not obey Him. A person needs to first be saved by God's grace through believing that Christ died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (Which is the gospel or good news). This will lead them to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus to seek forgiveness of their past life of sin. They will then be born again spiritually by the Word of God. By doing so, they will have the spiritual discernment that they are born again of water (the Word or the Bible), and not just the Spirit. They will have the spiritual discernment then to see that Jesus is GOD.

No, I was just kidding.

But there was no way for me to tell that you were joking unless you put a joke symbol in there. Therefore, you misled me to think that you believed I held to Calvinism (when I don't) (Which is neither truthful nor nice).

 

[farouk]

I am not impressed by your list (of which I believe was formed from carnal worldly thinking).
Take for example: Halloween. You don't think that's a problem.

Halloween is a pagan holiday that promotes the sin of witchcraft, murderers, mindless death, demons, etc.; I think Christians do not like to think about how God required witches to be put to death in the Old Testament. But it happened. Granted, in the New Testament, we are to love and do good towards our enemies, but the point here is that Halloween is a glorification of evil. Why would God be in favor us supporting a day where people glorify witches and evil? It’s silly. No offense to anyone here, but those Christians who do not see it are simply worldly focused and they are not seeking to pick up their cross, deny themselves as Jesus said ~ IMO. I know. I used to be in their shoes and think the same way. But at that time in my life, I would consider my focus to be concerned more about myself, and my pleasures, vs. truly seeking God and making Him happy in this life by my thoughts, and actions (According to His Word). In other words, they want Jesus their way, and not on God’s terms.

I don’t think Christians should even hand out candy or open their doors to give tracts on this day because it would be an acknowledgement to the practice of such a day itself (Which is a day of glorifying evil). This is a big one. Does the Lord want us to glorify evil and darkness and be a part of the world?

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:15-17).

Side Note:

Believers can give tracts or tell others about the gospel in other ways on that day that is not tied to the holiday. They can just give the tracts to a store clerk, or somebody in a store parking lot, etc.; They can love their neighbor in other ways without having to involve themselves in the holiday practice itself. But the draw of this world is strong. To break away from this world is difficult for many. For some, it is impossible, and thus they simply will never see what I am talking about here.



Yes, they are but it takes spiritual discernment in growing in maturity in Christ to know good from the evil.

“But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” (Hebrews 5:14).



Yes, I quote these verses often to many Christians today who justify sin on some level.



By your statement here it merely shows you approach this topic the same you you do Genesis. You try to cram the idea that we came from apes into Genesis. This shows me that your thinking is still yet carnal. So I think you are not currently capable of understanding this topic at this point in time on a spiritual level. So it's not really something that is going to benefit you if I discuss it with you. You have to first receive the milk of the Word before moving on the meat.



Right, we are living in the end times apostasy. Many distort God's Word to not obey Him. A person needs to first be saved by God's grace through believing that Christ died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (Which is the gospel or good news). This will lead them to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus to seek forgiveness of their past life of sin. They will then be born again spiritually by the Word of God. By doing so, they will have the spiritual discernment that they are born again of water (the Word or the Bible), and not just the Spirit. They will have the spiritual discernment then to see that Jesus is GOD.



But there was no way for me to tell that you were joking unless you put a joke symbol in there. Therefore, you misled me to think that you believed I held to Calvinism (when I don't) (Which is neither truthful nor nice).

@Bible Highlighter John's First Epistle is very searching.....

 

[farouk]

I don't think a revised edition of the KJV would catch on among KJV users. I'm content with my KJV that I use.

 

[Grailhunter]

While you say you are not sure, it sounds like you lean more towards a local flood.

The amazing thing is that Mt. Ararat is nearly 17,000 feet. Now where the ark came to rest....what the Bible suggest is pretty much on top.

But that's not how it was worded in the text. Nowhere does the Bible teach that “all the high hills under the whole heaven” is a certain region.

I am ok with it being the whole world.

But you don't seem to take His Word too seriously because you say it has errors in it. I am sure God will not be amused by your telling Him you thought His Word was error-ridden.

Are taking about the scriptures, one of the Bibles or what they believed back then?

So you don't think God has not been interacting with believers for the past 2,000 years?

I did not say that. Be careful. God has interacted with man and have give wisdom and revelation for 2000 years.

Noah did not have the Incarnate Word or Jesus to interact with, and therefore his experience with God was different. Nobody is being commanded to build a boat to avoid a global flood today. So you are confusing different epochs or periods of time with body of believers throughout time. Different time means different instructions and it can even mean a different way of how God communicates to us. For God has written two tablets of stone with His own finger for the Israelites. But God is not doing that today. God communicates to us today by His Word (the Holy Bible). To not understand this in my opinion means one has not had an actual spiritual experience with our Lord Jesus Christ in seeking forgiveness of one's sins according to the Bible and seeing His Word become alive to them. To doubt the Bible means one never really had faith in it to begin with or they fell away from the faith because of some tragedy or false teaching. I don't know your situation or case, and so I cannot say. It's not really my place to say, either. Only God can be your judge ultimately. I am just a messenger of His Word and I am merely relaying to you what it says. If you don't accept all of His Word, that is on you. But that is a dangerous place to be if you do. For nobody who desires to follow Jesus and His Word will speak against the Word. You appear to mock the idea of the Bible being the one and only way for GOD to communicated to us. If God wanted to communicated some other way, then the Bible is not really necessary.

Again idolatry. The Bible is not God. Nothing on this earth is infallible. Faith in the Bible...HMMM....You might try faith in God. And God can communicate with us in many ways.

Not all manuscripts agree with each other. Not all Modern Translations agree with each other. So you the reader become the authority to decide which words you prefer in one manuscript you like and which words you like in a particular translation you think is preferable to your mindset instead of submitting to one specific authority or Bible that you cannot change that has been time tested before the Revisers hoodwinked people to think they can play silly putty with the Bible.

Mostly if there is any questions I translate the manuscripts myself.

 

[Jim B]

Nope. There was flood legends in South America.

Flood Legends from the Americas, Part 3: Mexico to South America

And there were flood legends in North America. Take your pick.

Source:
List of flood myths - Wikipedia



I actually was not going to ask that. I am not generally focused on the Creation issues all that much anymore, but I do ask these things when I am faced with those who fall into the general consensus of what is commonly known as Liberalism by Conservative Christianity (Whether you accept that label or not). I know Answers in Genesis believe that a dog on the Ark was not many kinds of dogs but only one dog kind and not breeds of dogs. They believe that this theory is supported by Science in genetics. You can check out that article here. I really cannot confirm or deny this. I am not a genetics or animal expert and neither was I there to witness the event. I simply believe God's Word that the flood was global because it says the flood waters covered the highest mountains and the high hills under the whole of heaven were covered.

Genesis 7:19-22
“And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered. Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered. And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man: All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.”

So it sounds like you lean more towards a local flood because you don't believe all the animals could have fit on the Ark. So yes. This kind of belief falls into the Liberal camp once again.



This is simply a mockery of God's Word.

2 Peter 3:5-7
“For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.”



So you are looking for the truth? This does not make any sense. If person is a Christian, they have already found the truth and they don't need to keep seeking for what they have already found. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6). Jesus says to God the Father His Word is truth (John 17:17). Daniel calls the Scriptures as the Scripture of truth (See: Daniel 10:21). So if you are still seeking for truth, then you have not accepted these truths in His Word? Now, a person can learn more truths within God's Word (the Bible), but the truth is available to them at their fingertips by opening the pages of the Bible.



Did I say KJB denomination? I said a KJB Only church. Meaning, they hold to King James Bible as the one and only authority for all matters of faith and practice.



Uh huh. So what do you have as an alternative that is better?



You keep boasting in your superiority of knowledge on this topic, and yet you are not edifying anyone with it.
How does that help anyone?



There is a difference between man made rules vs. rules found in New Testament given to us by Jesus and His followers. Do you believe we should keep the commands of Jesus and His followers? Do you see that the Bible has to be corrected sometimes on this issue or topic?



Do you not realize God is in control of life and death? There are no accidents in life. Nothing in life can happen without God's sovereign approval. Job lost all his children. But he still worshiped God. It was a test of faith in God. The Lord gives, and the Lord takes away. Death is not the end. So put down your weapon. I mean, if we are to take your mentality here, then you would probably ended up killing the apostle Paul. In fact, I remember talking online with a Christian who worked for something like SWAT. He was about to take down one of his targets, but something held him back in pulling the trigger. He later talked with this guy he was about to shoot and his potential victim witnessed to him about Jesus Christ. It's how he came to the faith. So the man he was about to shoot led him to Jesus Christ.



So that is your opinion and not anything that is remotely established. Jesus criticized many on a wide variety of topics. That does not equate with your accusation of sounding culty. Do you not also try to nail others down on other topics you feel are really important? Is there not a truth you feel is worth fighting for? Critical from a biblical perspective by a Christian is only done to correct as 2 Timothy 3:16 says we can do. Do you not know that the Bible talks about how others held to false doctrines (false beliefs)? Do you not think that we are supposed to correct (criticize) other's false beliefs? Is that not why we are having a Bible discussion in the first place? No Bible discussion or debate would exist if we did not criticize the other belief we felt was wrong. So I don't see this as being exclusive to cult talk. That just silly. You need to prove that this a defining characteristic of cults and not others. By your definition everyone who talks on Christian forums would be culty. So far you have not really demonstrated this as being true.



Thank you. But I don't think that is proper English. I don't think one person can be a cult. Usually a cult involves a following of the radical unhealthy crazy beliefs of one person or a group of people. No followers and there is no cult.

Cult - Wikipedia



The question about ice cream was sarcasm. Did you really not think it was not sarcasm?
Anyways, I was asking you to explain in your own words what the Sodomites were intending to do the two angels.
Yet you are evasive with the truth on this point.



There is nothing to prove. It's obvious. Even sin and still be saved Eternal Security Proponents know that Genesis 19 is talking about Sodomy or homosexuality. To say so otherwise is to be really way off in left field somewhere.



Wow. This is crazy. Wow. That's... just like. Wow. You actually believe this? Amazing.
Anyways, this belief would make you a liberal according to the general consensus of evangelical Christianity and even basic informational websites reporting on such a topic or issue.



Either way you slice it... the result is God's Holy Word that is perfect.

So you believe all bibles have errors in them? If so... who gets to decide what is true or false?
You? Some scholar? Where is the final authority rest?



So then you or the scholar becomes the final word of authority over the Bible that you and or the scholar needs to correct. Is this why you are still seeking for truth?

I'm ignoring most of your reply, but this stood out: "There is nothing to prove. It's obvious. Even sin and still be saved Eternal Security Proponents know that Genesis 19 is talking about Sodomy or homosexuality. To say so otherwise is to be really way off in left field somewhere."

Why can't you understand the difference between the two? The people in Genesis 19 were angry. Genesis 19:4-7, "Before they could lie down to sleep, all the men—both young and old, from every part of the city of Sodom—surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so we can take carnal knowledge of them! Lot went outside to them, shutting the door behind him. He said, “No, my brothers! Don’t act so wickedly!” Then (pious) Lot offered them his two virgin daughters!

Homosexuals are men that love each other. It's like the difference between rape and intercourse.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am not impressed by your list

No harm, no foul

Halloween is a pagan holiday that promotes the sin of witchcraft, murderers, mindless death, demons, etc.;

Mental note: Bible Highlighter does not like Halloween and thinks that Christians should not celebrate

Yes, they are but it takes spiritual discernment in growing in maturity in Christ to know good from the evil.

As we see everybody studies with the Holy Spirit and then they come up with different answers....absolute fact, it is one of the reasons that you have 30,000 Protestant denominations. So that means you can believe anything.

By your statement here it merely shows you approach this topic the same you you do Genesis. You try to cram the idea that we came from apes into Genesis. This shows me that your thinking is still yet carnal. So I think you are not currently capable of understanding this topic at this point in time on a spiritual level. So it's not really something that is going to benefit you if I discuss it with you. You have to first receive the milk of the Word before moving on the meat.

What I said is spot on and absolute truth....Now carnal...ya know I have taken a lot of insults from you and I usually do not do that.
I have been patient with you because I realize you do not know much and have little capacity for reason. So take that Tonto!

Right, we are living in the end times apostasy.

We have been living in the end times ever since Christ said, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. If 2000 years can be gauged as last days or soon or quickly or the time has been shortened.....so can 10,000 years.

Many distort God's Word to not obey Him.

Only you distort God's word.......empty claims of rudeness.

 

[Jim B]

I am not impressed by your list (of which I believe was formed from carnal worldly thinking).
Take for example: Halloween. You don't think that's a problem.

Halloween is a pagan holiday that promotes the sin of witchcraft, murderers, mindless death, demons, etc.; I think Christians do not like to think about how God required witches to be put to death in the Old Testament. But it happened. Granted, in the New Testament, we are to love and do good towards our enemies, but the point here is that Halloween is a glorification of evil. Why would God be in favor us supporting a day where people glorify witches and evil? It’s silly. No offense to anyone here, but those Christians who do not see it are simply worldly focused and they are not seeking to pick up their cross, deny themselves as Jesus said ~ IMO. I know. I used to be in their shoes and think the same way. But at that time in my life, I would consider my focus to be concerned more about myself, and my pleasures, vs. truly seeking God and making Him happy in this life by my thoughts, and actions (According to His Word). In other words, they want Jesus their way, and not on God’s terms.

I don’t think Christians should even hand out candy or open their doors to give tracts on this day because it would be an acknowledgement to the practice of such a day itself (Which is a day of glorifying evil). This is a big one. Does the Lord want us to glorify evil and darkness and be a part of the world?

“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.” (1 John 2:15-17).

Side Note:

Believers can give tracts or tell others about the gospel in other ways on that day that is not tied to the holiday. They can just give the tracts to a store clerk, or somebody in a store parking lot, etc.; They can love their neighbor in other ways without having to involve themselves in the holiday practice itself. But the draw of this world is strong. To break away from this world is difficult for many. For some, it is impossible, and thus they simply will never see what I am talking about here.



Yes, they are but it takes spiritual discernment in growing in maturity in Christ to know good from the evil.

“But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.” (Hebrews 5:14).



Yes, I quote these verses often to many Christians today who justify sin on some level.



By your statement here it merely shows you approach this topic the same way you do Genesis. You try to cram the idea that we came from apes into Genesis. This shows me that your thinking is still yet carnal. So I think you are not currently capable of understanding this topic at this point in time on a spiritual level. So it's not really something that is going to benefit you if I discuss it with you. You have to first receive the milk of the Word before moving on to the meat.



Right, we are living in the end times apostasy. Many distort God's Word to not obey Him. A person needs to first be saved by God's grace through believing that Christ died for their sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (Which is the gospel or good news). This will lead them to call upon the name of the Lord Jesus to seek forgiveness of their past life of sin. They will then be born again spiritually by the Word of God. By doing so, they will have the spiritual discernment that they are born again of water (the Word or the Bible), and not just the Spirit. They will have the spiritual discernment then to see that Jesus is GOD.



But there was no way for me to tell that you were joking unless you put a joke symbol in there. Therefore, you misled me to think that you believed I held to Calvinism (when I don't) (Which is neither truthful nor nice).

Bible Highlighter, why do you put " I believe we are to love all others and speak in love, despite our correction of another’s false beliefs" in your "signature" paragraph, yet continually violate it with your combative posts? You don't "speak in love", period.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

But again, criticism of false beliefs is not a unique identifier exclusive to a cult. You yourself have stated I am not a cult and that I am not using cultic tactics.

I am assuming this is to me
Sounds like you are using cult tactics....You may not be doing on purpose.

Well, first I talked about the criticism of the wrong belief in general terms and then I switched to talking directly to you of your erroneous detective methods involving on how to recognize a cult. It's like you are trying to see a cult under every rock and tree (when there is none). For example: It would be like Bob saying to Rick: “Hey, do you see those people over there? Rick says, “Yes, I see them.” Bob replies, "They are breathing oxygen, and so they must be a cult or using cult tactics because cults breath oxygen.” That's how silly you sound.

So I don't think you are a qualified expert on cults based on what you said so far. Jesus spoke of beliefs in generic terms and he also used parables to do this, as well. So that is not an exclusive trait or identifier of a cult follower or cult leader (or cult tactics). So to say that I am using cult talk by speaking in generic terms of a false belief and then switching talking to you means you must also condemn the Lord Jesus Christ for the same reason. This just shows you your lack of knowledge of God's Holy Word. For Jesus says:

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” (John 8:47).

So as you can see, Jesus starts off talking in generic terms, and then he switches to condemning the Jews he was talking to.

Maybe I should rephrase that....People come up with cult like beliefs on their own. But you are right it takes more than one person to be a cult.

But you said I was not a cult (implying that it was possible that I alone could be a cult - which is not correct grammar or English).

I do take it seriously regarding words that are not in the Bible.

I know you don't regard the Bible as the one and only source for all matters of faith and practice.

Funny, because you think someone could have sex with an angel. That is whatz funny. Thou shalt not attempt to have sex with an angel. Kind of goes without saying.

Nowhere did I suggest that such a thing was even a possibility. I believe I made myself clear before that there was no way that was going to happen. So you are assuming something false about what I actually believe. Anyways, the point here is evil intent of the Sodomites (Which is still a serious sin). Jesus said that to look upon a woman in lust equates with a person being cast bodily into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30). The evil intentions of the Sodomites was the problem. It does not matter if there was no chance that they were going to succeed or not. Their evil intent was still sinful and it was a part of the reasons why the city was going to be destroyed by fire.

Sodomy....But the problem is the word you got going on in your head that is not in the Bible....There is no telling what you think it means.

Homosexuality. There I said it. But did I really need to say it to make the obvious fact clear of the evil intent behind the Sodomites? So obviously they were not interested in selling the two angels ice cream to them.

Never mind that they had no chance to succeed in sodomizing the angels. That would have never happened. That's not the point. The point was their evil intentions of sodomy or rape via by homosexual means.

GOD decides what is true or false by His Word (the Bible).

true and false might not be the right words......stars falling to earth....hate your mother and father to be a disciple of Christ....slaves obey your masters...have you given everything own away and walk around homeless with nothing but the shirt on your back....I can't imagine your beliefs regarding women.

You have went back into full bible agnostic mode. These words are true in the Bible but they need to be read in context and with spiritual discernment. There are archaic words or phrases in the King James Bible that has influenced even Modern English Translations. For example: Conversation can mean behavior in the King James Bible. I would suggest picking up the book called Archaic words and the Authorized Version by Laurence Vance at Amazon or some other book store. But more importantly, I would ask GOD for the understanding and compare Scripture with Scripture when you read the Bible.

There are no perfect Bibles....nothing on this planet is perfect.

Good thing I believe the Bible and not you.

For it is written...