All Israel Will Be Saved

Truth7t7 · Oct 16, 2021

Naomi25 said:
But…if you ARE correct in how you see scripture unfolding here… doesn’t that just mean that a possible interpretation of Rom 11 is that those Jews who survive THAT will be ‘grafted back in’…and in THAT way, ‘all’ Israel will be saved? After all…at that stage, and in a ‘national’ sense, they WILL be ‘all’ Israel.
Just a thought.

Keraz has stated many times, the "Remnant" will be grafted into the Church, the Isreal of God

Naomi25 · Oct 16, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Keraz has stated many times, the "Remnant" will be grafted into the Church, the Isreal of God

He may have, I have not seen it.
And…if we’re basing that off Rom 11…wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that the Church is grafted into believing Israel…thereby becoming ‘the Israel of God’?

Truman · Oct 16, 2021

I believe that my Levite ancestor was taken into exile by the Assyrian army 2,730 years ago. From the history that I've read, he was most likely a member of the southern kingdom of the house of Judah.

Truth7t7 · Oct 16, 2021

Naomi25 said:
He may have, I have not seen it.
And…if we’re basing that off Rom 11…wouldn’t it be more accurate to say that the Church is grafted into believing Israel…thereby becoming ‘the Israel of God’?

Jesus Christ is the olive tree, being grafted into this olive tree one becomes "Church"

Naomi25 · Oct 16, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Jesus Christ is the olive tree, being grafted into this olive tree one becomes "Church"

I think, if you re-read that passage, you’ll find that within the analogy, Christ is ‘the root’, who is ‘holy’ and ‘supports’ the tree. The tree itself (and the branches of it, which is mostly spoken of) is believing Israel.
Members of Israel who did not trust Christ, were ‘broken off’….no longer supported by the root. And believing Gentiles were ‘grafted in’. Jewish people who come to Christ are also ‘grafted back’ onto the tree, which represents Israel. In that manner, ‘true Israel’ is believing Israel.
We can call it the Church, certainly, as both ‘true Israel’ and ‘the Church’ have become one in Christ. But Gentiles were grafted onto the tree as they believed in Christ, they were not there naturally. They were not the tree that was ‘true Israel’.
We can see how this played out in real life. The ‘church’ in fact started with ‘true Israel’ (Jewish believers). Then, they gathered Gentiles who came to Christ, who came into the Church, joining the Jewish believers. In doing so, they were grafted into ‘true Israel’…the tree..supported by the root. And, because they are all supported by the root (in other words, there is but one way to salvation: Christ), thus the Church and “true Israel” are one.

Truth7t7 · Oct 16, 2021

Naomi25 said:
I think, if you re-read that passage, you’ll find that within the analogy, Christ is ‘the root’, who is ‘holy’ and ‘supports’ the tree. The tree itself (and the branches of it, which is mostly spoken of) is believing Israel.
Members of Israel who did not trust Christ, were ‘broken off’….no longer supported by the root. And believing Gentiles were ‘grafted in’. Jewish people who come to Christ are also ‘grafted back’ onto the tree, which represents Israel. In that manner, ‘true Israel’ is believing Israel.
We can call it the Church, certainly, as both ‘true Israel’ and ‘the Church’ have become one in Christ. But Gentiles were grafted onto the tree as they believed in Christ, they were not there naturally. They were not the tree that was ‘true Israel’.
We can see how this played out in real life. The ‘church’ in fact started with ‘true Israel’ (Jewish believers). Then, they gathered Gentiles who came to Christ, who came into the Church, joining the Jewish believers. In doing so, they were grafted into ‘true Israel’…the tree..supported by the root. And, because they are all supported by the root (in other words, there is but one way to salvation: Christ), thus the Church and “true Israel” are one.

Only the remnant elect Jew will be saved and added to the Church, the Israel of God

Roman's 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

Naomi25 · Oct 16, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Only the remnant elect Jew will be saved and added to the Church, the Israel of God

Roman's 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Romans 11:23-29
[23] And even they (unbelieving Jews), if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in (to the tree; ‘True Israel/Chruch), for God has the power to graft them in again. [24] For if you (Gentiles) were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
[25] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [26] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
[27] “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
[28] As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. [29] For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Now: granted there are arguments over what the meaning of “all Israel” means. Some claim it means the totality of ‘elect Jews’ down through history. This is possible. However, I’m less certain of that. The passage, if read from the beginning of Chapter 11, seems to highlight 3 different people groups. Paul is speaking TO saved Gentiles about their inclusion onto the ‘tree’. He is speaking about how the ‘elect of Israel’ were not abandoned in God’s promises…indeed, he is an example of those who remained on the natural tree. But he is also clearly speaking about ‘Israel’ in terms of those who have been ‘broken off’ from the tree. That is; Jews who do not believe in Messiah and are therefore “enemies in regards of the gospel”.

We know that in light of the New Covenant no one will be saved unless they come to Christ…unless they are ‘on the tree’…be they natural branches or grafted on branches. To my mind, the most natural reading of this passage, in light of the 3 people groups Paul is highlighting, is that when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in”, the “partial hardening” of Israel (the broken off branches” will be lifted. Thus, God’s “calling and promises to the forefathers” will be fulfilled, as they are irrevocable.

Will this mean all Jews who remain alive at that time? I don’t know. But I suspect a large portion of them. I think, as we see at the end of Matthew 23, that they will cry out “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”…finally realising who their Messiah is.

Truth7t7 · Oct 16, 2021

Naomi25 said:
Romans 11:23-29
[23] And even they (unbelieving Jews), if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in (to the tree; ‘True Israel/Chruch), for God has the power to graft them in again. [24] For if you (Gentiles) were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.
[25] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. [26] And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
[27] “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
[28] As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers. [29] For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

Now: granted there are arguments over what the meaning of “all Israel” means. Some claim it means the totality of ‘elect Jews’ down through history. This is possible. However, I’m less certain of that. The passage, if read from the beginning of Chapter 11, seems to highlight 3 different people groups. Paul is speaking TO saved Gentiles about their inclusion onto the ‘tree’. He is speaking about how the ‘elect of Israel’ were not abandoned in God’s promises…indeed, he is an example of those who remained on the natural tree. But he is also clearly speaking about ‘Israel’ in terms of those who have been ‘broken off’ from the tree. That is; Jews who do not believe in Messiah and are therefore “enemies in regards of the gospel”.

We know that in light of the New Covenant no one will be saved unless they come to Christ…unless they are ‘on the tree’…be they natural branches or grafted on branches. To my mind, the most natural reading of this passage, in light of the 3 people groups Paul is highlighting, is that when “the fullness of the Gentiles has come in”, the “partial hardening” of Israel (the broken off branches” will be lifted. Thus, God’s “calling and promises to the forefathers” will be fulfilled, as they are irrevocable.

Will this mean all Jews who remain alive at that time? I don’t know. But I suspect a large portion of them. I think, as we see at the end of Matthew 23, that they will cry out “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord”…finally realising who their Messiah is.

The scripture is screaming, not all ethnic Jews will be saved, why do you disregard the simple teaching before your eyes, no rocket science there?

All Israel will be saved, when the last Soul is added to the Israel of God on earth, (The Church)

Only the remnant elect Jew will be saved and added to the Church, the Israel of God

Roman's 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear

unto this day.

Naomi25 · Oct 16, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
The scripture is screaming, not all ethnic Jews will be saved, why do you disregard the simple teaching before your eyes, no rocket science there?

All Israel will be saved, when the last Soul is added to the Israel of God on earth, (The Church)

Only the remnant elect Jew will be saved and added to the Church, the Israel of God

Roman's 11:7-8KJV
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

Did I say “all ethnic Israel” is going to be saved? I said it was possible a large portion of them would be…not that it was an absolutely certainty.

You say scripture is ‘screaming’ not all ethnic Jews will be saved. And, of course, you are right. No one looking at scripture, or history, would claim that every single Jewish person was elect and ‘saved’. That is not, however, what I believe Paul is talking about here. And no…I’m still NOT saying that every Jewish person MUST be saved.

However, when you have PAUL telling us that it is POSSIBLE for God to, ‘after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in’ (which, you would hopefully agree is a future time), graft back on those ethnic Jews who do not currently believe…which covers ALL ethnic Jews alive who are not believers (Jews who do believe are clearly already part of the tree), then we must allow it to be a possibility. Be it ten Jews, or all of them; it is a possibility.

So…if the possibility is there, which it must be by Paul’s statement, and after speaking about the possibility of them being grafted back in, he then speaks of “all Israel being saved”, and declaring God’s ‘irrevocable calling, love and election’ on them on behalf of the forefathers. He then follows by breaking forth into praise of the wonders of God!

View it as you must, but I look at it and say “there’s the possibility of LOTS of ethnic Israel being called to Christ”.
If you think scripture is ‘screaming’ at us…I’d say what I believe this passage is ‘screaming’ at us ‘Gentiles’:

Romans 11:25, 30-32
[25] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in….
[30] For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, [31] so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. [32] For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

None of us knows the wonders of God in this matter. But Paul urges us not to be ‘wise’, and advises that their ‘hardening’ was for our benefit. So too, now their disobedience shall be turned in order that they shall receive mercy.

Truth7t7 · Oct 16, 2021

Naomi25 said:
Did I say “all ethnic Israel” is going to be saved? I said it was possible a large portion of them would be…not that it was an absolutely certainty.

You say scripture is ‘screaming’ not all ethnic Jews will be saved. And, of course, you are right. No one looking at scripture, or history, would claim that every single Jewish person was elect and ‘saved’. That is not, however, what I believe Paul is talking about here. And no…I’m still NOT saying that every Jewish person MUST be saved.

However, when you have PAUL telling us that it is POSSIBLE for God to, ‘after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in’ (which, you would hopefully agree is a future time), graft back on those ethnic Jews who do not currently believe…which covers ALL ethnic Jews alive who are not believers (Jews who do believe are clearly already part of the tree), then we must allow it to be a possibility. Be it ten Jews, or all of them; it is a possibility.

So…if the possibility is there, which it must be by Paul’s statement, and after speaking about the possibility of them being grafted back in, he then speaks of “all Israel being saved”, and declaring God’s ‘irrevocable calling, love and election’ on them on behalf of the forefathers. He then follows by breaking forth into praise of the wonders of God!

View it as you must, but I look at it and say “there’s the possibility of LOTS of ethnic Israel being called to Christ”.
If you think scripture is ‘screaming’ at us…I’d say what I believe this passage is ‘screaming’ at us ‘Gentiles’:

Romans 11:25, 30-32
[25] Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers:a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in….
[30] For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience, [31] so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now receive mercy. [32] For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

None of us knows the wonders of God in this matter. But Paul urges us not to be ‘wise’, and advises that their ‘hardening’ was for our benefit. So too, now their disobedience shall be turned in order that they shall receive mercy.

Scripture teaches 1/3 will be saved and added to the Church, it appears to be in the Land of Israel

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Curtis · Oct 17, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Scripture teaches 1/3 will be saved and added to the Church, it appears to be in the Land of Israel

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Paul said in Romans 11 that all but a remnant of Israel is in unbelief and ungodly until the age of the Gentiles is fulfilled, and that when the deliverer, Jesus, comes out of Zion, Jacob will become Godly, and all Israel will be saved, in Romans 11

Which means all Israel alive to see Jesus come on a cloud, Rev 1:7, on His way back to Mount Olive, Zechariah 14:5, and know that He saved Jerusalem from destruction, will realize He’s their Messiah, and thus believe in Him, and be saved.

Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

Naomi25 · Oct 17, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
Scripture teaches 1/3 will be saved and added to the Church, it appears to be in the Land of Israel

Zechariah 13:8-9KJV
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

That could very well be true. Which also points me back to my comment to Keraz. IF he is correct in his summations of a catastrophic event of fire, be that a CME or some other fiery event, then it could be possible that who Paul is speaking about in Romans 11 IS that 1/3 remaining. Which, in a real way, WILL BE “all Israel”. The rest will have been ‘cut off’ before that.

Look…I’m not claiming a strict dogma on this…I never was. I’m looking at possibilities that fit with both passage AND what Keraz was talking about, that’s all. I think it’s interesting. And I like being open to new possibilities…I’ve generally found that God CAN bulldoze me on issues if he needs to, but I don’t like it. If I’m open to his teaching me new things, its not as “I’ve just been steam-rollered by God”, and more of a “ah-ha” moment. I prefer that.

Oseas · Oct 17, 2021

Davy said:
Some brethren apparently have a problem with what Apostle Paul taught about the Israel in part that God blinded, per Romans 11.

Paul taught the blindness away from The Gospel which God put upon his brethren the Jews, would not be removed until the "fulness of the Gentiles be come in". That blindness, Paul called "the spirit of slumber" (also the idea of 'a stupor' or 'lethargy' per the Greek).

Rom 11:7-11
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.
9 And David saith, "Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumbling block, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway."
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
KJV

Apostle Paul goes on to tell us, Christ's Church, that we are not to be wise in our own conceits, because God has not forgotten those Jews He blinded away from The Gospel of Jesus Christ. They are still His elect chosen according to Apostle Paul...

Rom 11:25-34
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

That means, when that "fulness of the Gentiles be come in" happens, that is when God is going to remove their spiritual blindness away from The Gospel. Then they shall believe on our Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, "There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
And there it is, what I just explained, that God's chosen elect He will not go back on His promises to them. That's what "the gifts and calling of God are without repentance" means.
Thus for this present world, the unbelieving Jews are enemies of The Gospel for 'our sakes'. How's that? Because of their rejecting Jesus, The Gospel would then be sent to us the Gentiles.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that He might have mercy upon all.

As in times past, when we Gentiles were without Christ Jesus and God's promises, we were not under His mercy. But now, through the unbelieving Jew's rejection of The Gospel, we Gentiles have obtained God's Mercy by Faith on Jesus Christ.

¶ 33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out!
34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been His counsellor?
KJV
Paul then points out how this mystery of the Jew's spiritual blindness being for the purpose of His Mercy eventually being upon all, is a matter of The LORD's Own Wisdom.

Galatians 4:v.21-31
21 Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?

22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

30 Nevertheless what saith the Scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31 So then, brethren, we (the believers in JESUS) are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

What Israel will be saved? Only and only those which believed in JESUS.

Hebrews 3:7 to 11 and 18-19

7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

All Israel Will Be Saved?????
How could it be if GOD, even GOD, "will send them STRONG DELUSION, that they should believe a lie"?
That they ALL might be DAMNED who believed not the Truth (they believed not in GOD - GOD is Truth - and also in JESUS), but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 2 Tessalonians 2:v.11-12

John 3:v.16 to 21
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth Truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

John 1:v.10-12
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not.
11 He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.

12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on His name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of GOD.

John 8:v.41 to
41 JESUS said to the Jews: Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to JESUS, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

42 Jesus said unto them, If GOD were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

44 Ye are of your father the Devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.

John 3:34-36
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Get ready

Davy · Oct 17, 2021

Marty fox said:
Well who exactly is all Israel?

Paul said this shortly before he said “all Israel will be saved”

Romans 9:6
It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

The chosen seed of Israel that believe on Jesus, along with believing Gentiles. Both represent God's Israel.

In Revelation 7 we are shown this distinction between the 144,000 of the 'seed' of chosen Israel.

And then at Revelation 7:9 it begins mention of the saved Gentiles, the "great multitude".

So if there is no more Jew or Gentile like how many interpret Paul's Message in Galatians or Romans 9, then WHY did Lord Jesus make a distinction between the 'seed' of Israel (144,000) contrasted with the Gentiles in Revelation 7:9?

The Rev.7 Scripture reveals that Paul was preaching about no distinction based on Faith with membership in Christ's Church with the no more Jew or Gentile spiritual idea. Paul was not cancelling... God's promises back in The Old Testament promised the 'seed'... of Israel.

Davy · Oct 17, 2021

Oseas said:
Galatians 4:v.21-31
....

Based on your false... interpretation, it would be impossible for God to be able to save His chosen seed of Israel.

Thus you are under the "wise in your own conceits" warning by Apostle Paul...

Rom 11:25-31
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
KJV

Paul's points in the above:
1. Paul was speaking of his brethren the Jews, as shown in the Romans 11:14. That is the Israel in part he was pointing to, the orthodox unbelieving Jews that reject Lord Jesus Christ.
2. God blinded them away from The Gospel, and that blindness won't be removed until the fullness of the Gentiles is complete (at Christ's return).
3. they are still beloved for the father's sakes, and are still God's chosen elect.
4. God will not go back on His gifts and calling upon them.
5. They have not believed so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles who were not under Mercy. Through OUR MERCY they also may obtain mercy!

So where's the MERCY for them brethren in Christ? They may be enemies against The Gospel for this world, but we may expect that not to be so when Jesus returns, and their blindness is removed.

Marty fox · Oct 17, 2021

Davy said:
The chosen seed of Israel that believe on Jesus, along with believing Gentiles. Both represent God's Israel.

In Revelation 7 we are shown this distinction between the 144,000 of the 'seed' of chosen Israel.

And then at Revelation 7:9 it begins mention of the saved Gentiles, the "great multitude".

So if there is no more Jew or Gentile like how many interpret Paul's Message in Galatians or Romans 9, then WHY did Lord Jesus make a distinction between the 'seed' of Israel (144,000) contrasted with the Gentiles in Revelation 7:9?

The Rev.7 Scripture reveals that Paul was preaching about no distinction based on Faith with membership in Christ's Church with the no more Jew or Gentile spiritual idea. Paul was not cancelling... God's promises back in The Old Testament promised the 'seed'... of Israel.

How can Revelation 7:9 be the gentiles when it say every nation,tribe, people and language?

The Jews are apart of them.

Davy · Oct 17, 2021

Marty fox said:
How can Revelation 7:9 be the gentiles when it say every nation,tribe, people and language?

The Jews are apart of them.

It's because 12,000 out of the seed of 12 tribes of Israel are clearly mentioned in distinction to the "great multitude" that is out of all nations.

Isa 49:6
6 And He said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth.
KJV

Also as a factor is the Old Testament prophecies about the return of the seed of Israel and their restoration as a kingdom in the holy land, which has NOT YET taken place today. It will only happen when Lord Jesus returns in our near future. And to easily mark it, Lord Jesus promised His 12 Apostles they would sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

As for Jews involving the Rev.7 Scripture, that only involves the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, which amounts to 12,000 x 3, or 36,000.

The reason for that is because the ten northern tribes of Israel were scattered first, and only those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" in the south at Jerusalem/Judea took the name 'Jew'. The ten northern tribes were not known as Jews, but as Israelites only. God scattered them among the Gentiles, and they lost their heritage as Israelites, so that means they are definitely not Jews today.

Marty fox · Oct 17, 2021

Davy said:
It's because 12,000 out of the seed of 12 tribes of Israel are clearly mentioned in distinction to the "great multitude" that is out of all nations.

Isa 49:6
6 And He said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be My servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be My salvation unto the end of the earth.
KJV

Also as a factor is the Old Testament prophecies about the return of the seed of Israel and their restoration as a kingdom in the holy land, which has NOT YET taken place today. It will only happen when Lord Jesus returns in our near future. And to easily mark it, Lord Jesus promised His 12 Apostles they would sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel.

As for Jews involving the Rev.7 Scripture, that only involves the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, which amounts to 12,000 x 3, or 36,000.

The reason for that is because the ten northern tribes of Israel were scattered first, and only those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" in the south at Jerusalem/Judea took the name 'Jew'. The ten northern tribes were not known as Jews, but as Israelites only. God scattered them among the Gentiles, and they lost their heritage as Israelites, so that means they are definitely not Jews today.

If it’s the 12 tribes then how come the the tribes of Dan is not mentioned?

Truth7t7 · Oct 17, 2021

Curtis said:
Paul said in Romans 11 that all but a remnant of Israel is in unbelief and ungodly until the age of the Gentiles is fulfilled, and that when the deliverer, Jesus, comes out of Zion, Jacob will become Godly, and all Israel will be saved, in Romans 11

Which means all Israel alive to see Jesus come on a cloud, Rev 1:7, on His way back to Mount Olive, Zechariah 14:5, and know that He saved Jerusalem from destruction, will realize He’s their Messiah, and thus believe in Him, and be saved.

Rom 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Rom 11:26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written, “The Deliverer will come from Zion, he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;

You have a very hard time understanding only (The Remnant) Jew will be called and saved, not all Jews/Israel as you claim all Jews that see Jesus in the cloud will be saved "Wrong"

Your claim that the fulness of the gentiles will see all ethnic Jews saved is "Error"

Look at the (Bold Red) real slow, read it 10 times (Israel Hath Not Obtained) (The Election Hath Obtained)

Revelation 11:5-7 & 26-28KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

Curtis · Oct 17, 2021

Truth7t7 said:
You have a very hard time understanding only (The Remnant) Jew will be called and saved

Your claim that the fulness of the gentiles will see all ethnic Jews saved is "Error"

Look at the (Bold Red) real slow, read it 0 times (Israel Hath Not Obtained)

Revelation 11:5-7 & 26-28KJV
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are belo

You need to pay more attention. I said for now ONLY A REMNANT of Jews believe and are saved.

Heed your own advice! YOU pay attention!

Also when Paul says one day ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED when.the deliverer comes out of Zion per Romans 11, ALL MEANS ALL!!!

Not some -ALL!

Every single Jew still alive to see Jesus come out of zion will believe and be saved.

PERIOD!

All Israel Will Be Saved

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