All Israel will be saved

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n2thelight

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What is important about death in the Millennium is that this describes mortal people - not us who will inhabit a new mansion of an immortal and imperishable body.
There will be nobody born nor dying during the millennium.All will be changed,the difference is that those who overcame don't have to worry about the 2nd death which is the death of the soul.

Those who did not,overcome although changed,will still have a mortal soul meaning they can die the 2nd death....

That's why in the below they are called the dead

Revelation 20:12"And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works."

The millennium is a time to learn the true Word of God
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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Heb 13:8 said:
What scripture are you referring to where it says "when are you coming again"? Matt 24:3 Greek says the end of the age, not the end of the world.
The world does not end until after the Millennium is over, but it does end.

Before that happens, the Age of the Rule of Man will end when the rock that is made not by human hands destroys the rule of man - and that leads the way to the Millennium. That happens only after the final battle at Armageddon is won.

Before that happens, the Church Age ends - according to my reading of Scripture - which is based on an analysis of prophetic linear narratives which can be combined around specific and unique time markers so as to form a sequence of events.
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Mt 24 does not contain the end of the world - that will not concern us as we will be in Heaven with only a "camp" in Jerusalem.
Mt 24 does not detail the end of the rule of man - we're not here for that as we will be shut inside God's Temple in Heaven for the last of God's desolations which will be poured out on the desolator - the anti-Christ.

Mt 24's Olivet Discourse is where Jesus gives us a broad overview in verses 4-14 which contain the beginning of birth pains, the Great Commission, and the "end" - of what? Let's see...

Mt 24:3 As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them, “See to it that no one misleads you. 5 “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 “You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not frightened, for those things must take place, but that is not yet the end.

7 “For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes. 8But all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs. 9 “Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. 10 “At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. 11 "Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. 12 “Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. 14This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Notice in verse 13 that the "end" is tied to being saved for the one who "endures".
​Notice in verse 14 that the Great Commission must be preached in the whole world and then that same end will come.

In the detailed parallel account of the one 'seven' in Revelation chapters 13-16 inclusive (parallel that is to the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation chapters 4-11 exclusive of 11:1-13) We find the Great Commission is finally accomplished after all our efforts have come to naught by the first of three Angels. AND THEN the Harvest comes. This is the "END" which is when the Elect, some newly believing! - are saved.

The "end" that Jesus prophesized is the end of the Church Age - when we are removed from the field of this world.
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Mt 24"s Olivet Discourse is where Jesus gives us the Keystone detailed parallel account of the "end" with no less than five specific and unique events which allows us to integrate the one 'seven' to the Seal/Scroll chronology in Revelation chapters 4-11. This detailed parallel account leads to His Coming and the end of the Church Age when the last of us to survive the Great Tribulation are gathered up.

Jesus literally "backs up" and retells the "end" of the Church Age - when we are saved by being gathered up - and He starts with the specific and unique event: the midpoint abomination(s) desolation.

Mt 24:15 “Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),

Proscription to the Jews in Judea, the initial cadre of the Remnant Jews whom Jesus will hide from Satan:
16 then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains. 17 Whoever is on the housetop must not go down to get the things out that are in his house. 18 Whoever is in the field must not turn back to get his cloak. 19 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 “But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath.

2nd specific and unique event: the Great Tribulation:
21 “For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. 22 “Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Warning to the Church - especially those who are Pre-Trib, Amillennial, or Preterist:
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Behold, here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe him. 24 “For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. 25 “Behold, I have told you in advance. 26 “So if they say to you, ‘Behold, He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out, or, ‘Behold, He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe them.

Description of the Rapture Gathering:
27 “For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 “Wherever the corpse is, there the vultures will gather.

Day of the Lord - three key sequenced events:
29 “But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.
30And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31 And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

And that ends the Church Age - the Elect join the Saints who have been resurrected from Paradise, and they go not to Jerusalem, which is about to be the center of a great battle on the Day of the Lord, but to the "barn" of Heaven, where they will be safe while the tares (wicked) are burned in the field of this world.

We can boil down the sequence of events into this outline of the Olivet Discourse's detailed parallel account:
  1. (midpoint) abomination.
  2. The -shortened- Great Tribulation
  3. The precursor sign to the Day of the Lord: the sun/moon/star event (which effectively ends the Great Tribulation)
  4. The sign of the Son of Man & His Coming on the clouds.
  5. The gathering of the Elect - who remain and are still alive after the Great Tribulation.
This puts the Rapture as happening some time after the midpoint of the one 'seven' but before the desolations God has decreed go forth.
Contributing evidence:
  • In the broad overview of the Seal/Scroll chronology, the Great Multitude show up in Heaven and then the Trumpets sound.
  • ​In the detailed parallel account of the one 'seven' of Revelation chapters 13-16, the Harvest from the clouds happens, and then an Angel in charge of the fire (first Trumpet desolation) sends an Angel out to supply the blood (a first Trumpet desolation). This is in aid to the battle which surrounds Jerusalem and spills over to the "valley of decision" which scholars point to the valley of Jehoshaphat - which is near Bethlehem to the south of Jerusalem.
The Day of the Lord is made up of opposing halves on a couple of different levels.
​It is a complex day, but one that can, from all of the relevant prophecy about it, be reconciled to fit within on 24 hour, Hebrew day.
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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n2thelight said:
There will be nobody born nor dying during the millennium.
Isaiah has many different passages which describe the Millennial period for Israel, when they will live at peace in the world, not only with their enemies, but creation itself.

In these passages, people are being born, and they die.

So I don't agree with your conclusion.

If you want to argue further, I can trot those passages out, and you can dismiss them all you want - and we're right back to where we started.



n2thelight said:
The millennium is a time to learn the true Word of God
And because you have assigned this purpose to the Millennium, I can see that you won't change one bit.

Whereas Scripture tells us we will be Priests of God, and the sacrificial system is re-instituted in a slightly different form than from before - and all the Jews come to Jesus within this system of worship, and so too do the surrounding nations, the meek, who inherit the earth during the Millennium.

We rule in Christ's stead from the "camp" of Jerusalem.

The purpose of the Millennium as I see Scripture, is to save "all" of Israel; they are the "Sheep" who enter God's eternal Kingdom at the second Resurrection.
 

keras

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Back to proving that Christians are the Israel of God:

[SIZE=medium]The Israel of God in the New Testament. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]God’s work with and the development of ‘Israel’ in the Old Testament is continued in the New Testament. Those who presumed that ancestry gave them privileges were chastened. John the Baptist’s strong language indicates how seriously God viewed their pride and arrogance:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]John said to the crowds coming out to be baptized by him, "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, `We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. The axe is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Luke 3:7-9 [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Jesus gives a similar warning to those who were trying to trap him:[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Abraham is our father, they answered. “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did”. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]John 8:39 Jesus goes even further in Matthew 8[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]when he praises the faith of a Gentile Roman Centurion[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]: I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Matthew 8:10 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jesus then goes on to make a prediction[/SIZE]: [SIZE=medium]I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But those who were born to the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Matthew 8:11-12 [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Here Jesus is warning his Jewish hearers that unless they recognize him as their Messiah they will be excluded from the Kingdom. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]This is how we are to understand Paul when he specifically uses the expression:[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Israel of God [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]in Galatians 6:16. [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Galatians 6:16 [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]For those who hold to a rapture, Paul is referring to Jews, or at least Christian Jews, but this flies in the face of everything he has said in the first five chapters of this letter. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In Galatians 3:23-29, Paul says we are saved by God’s grace and justified by faith alone in Jesus Christ. Paul is emphatic - people are not saved by ethnicity , by circumcision, by offering animal sacrifices or by keeping the Law of Moses. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In Galatians 4:21-31, those who follow Jesus, are likened to the free children of Sarah. Those seeking to be justified by the Law have been alienated from Jesus and are likened to the children of Hagar. Quoting Genesis 21, they will, he warns: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]never share in the inheritance[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]…. Paul speaks of our freedom in Christ and our new life in the Holy Spirit. He contrasts living by the Spirit with living by our sinful nature. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Do you see what Paul is saying? We have a choice – grace or law, faith or works? When Paul writes: [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, [and or even] to the Israel of God, [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]he is obviously referring to all the followers of Jesus who have repudiated the legalists who wanted to impose circumcision and keeping the Law. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]John Stott provides on of the best explanations of this verse:[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium][/SIZE][SIZE=medium]All who walk by this rule’ [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]and ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the Israel of God’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] are not two groups, but one. The connecting particle kai should be translated ‘even’, not ‘and’, or be omitted, as in the RSV.[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]The Christian church enjoys a direct continuity with God’s people in the Old Testament. Those who are Christians today are ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the true circumcision’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] - Phil. 3:3, [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]‘Abraham’s offspring’ [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Galatians 3:29 and ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]the Israel of God’.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]And don’t worry about the phrase ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]walk by this rule’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] either. The Greek word ‘rule’ is kanon and simply describes a carpenter’s or surveyor’s plumb line. John Stott says,[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]This is the ‘canon’ of Scripture, the doctrine of the apostles, and especially in the context of Galatians 6 the cross of Christ and the new creation. Such is the rule by which the church must walk and continuously judge and reform itself.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]In the closing sentences of this letter, Paul is drawing on an ancient prayer he would have prayed all his life on the Sabbath. Known as the additional 19th benediction to the 18 benedictions, and based on the Aaronic blessing of Numbers 6:24-26, God is asked in the final prayer for ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Peace… and mercy on us and all Israel, your people.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]’ Now Paul prays this blessing on the Jewish and Gentile Christian believers in Jesus for they have become the ‘[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Israel of God’[/SIZE][SIZE=medium].[/SIZE]
 

Heb 13:8

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Notice in verse 13 that the "end" is tied to being saved for the one who "endures".
​Notice in verse 14 that the Great Commission must be preached in the whole world and then that same end will come.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:13

This can have two meanings. First, that those who endured in their faith, even under persecution and being killed for their faith, would be saved.

Secondly, that the believers who endured until the end of the Roman siege would be saved. Some believers were taken captive by the Jews and held until the end, when their captors suddenly surrendered to the Roman army. Titus took the captors prisoner, but let the believers go free.

Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible:

He that shall endure unto the end–shall be saved. The word “end” here has by some been thought to mean the destruction of Jerusalem, or the end of the Jewish economy. And the meaning has been supposed to be, he that perseveres in bearing these persecutions to the end of the wars shall be safe. God will protect his people from harm, so that not a hair of the head shall perish. Others, with more probability, have referred this to final salvation, and refer the “end” to the close of life. He that bears afflictions and persecutions faithfully–that constantly adheres to his religion, and does not shrink till death–shall be saved, or shall enter heaven.

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

But he that shall endure to the end, In the profession of faith in Christ, notwithstanding the violent persecutions of wicked men; and in the pure and incorrupt doctrines of the Gospel, whilst many are deceived by the false teachers that shall arise; and in holiness of life and conversation, amidst all the impurities of the age; and shall patiently bear all afflictions, to the end of his life, or to the end of sorrows, of which the above mentioned were the beginning:

the same shall be saved; with a temporal salvation, when Jerusalem, and the unbelieving inhabitants of it shall be destroyed: for those that believed in Christ, many of them, through persecution, were obliged to remove from thence; and others, by a voice from heaven, were bid to go out of it, as they did; and removed to Pella, a village a little beyond Jordan1, and so were preserved from the general calamity; and also with an everlasting salvation, which is the case of all that persevere to the end, as all true believers in Christ will.

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14

Messiah Himself confirmed after His resurrection, when they brought up the same question concerning the restoring of the kingdom to Israel, He turned their minds from that subject, and said,

“But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” Acts 2:10

He is telling them that they would receive the Spirit and that they would be witnesses until all the nations of the Roman Empire.

“Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia, Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes, Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.” Acts 2:9-11

The promise of salvation was given to the Jews first. 3,000 Jews believed on Messiah on the day of Pentecost, who then took it back to their nations.

“For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”Acts 2:39, 41, 47

But we need to look behind a key word: world — this time, it isn’t aion, and it also isn’t kosmos, the word which indicates the broadest possible connotations. This time, it is oikoumene, a word used to express only the Roman Empire (cf. Acts 11:28, Luke 2:1).

It is significant that this is the only place Matthew uses this word; he has selected it carefully as a geographical delimitation; it is also significant that he has used this word rather than kosmos as he did with reference to the spreading of the Gospel correspondent with the separation of the justified and the wicked. The gospel had to be preached to the Roman Empire as a whole before the end of the age.

Marks recording of the Olivet Discourse says nations, not the whole world, as in the whole earth.

Mark 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.


The Greek word for publish is kerusso which means: to herald (as a public crier), especially divine truth (the gospel):—preacher(-er), proclaim, publish.

The four Gospels were written (published) before the desolation of the temple, and copies were made and spread around to the different cities where the Gospel had been preached and assemblies had been created.

“End” = end of that age and of the City of Jerusalem [The Jewish state, City, and Temple], NOT the end of the world. (FNL)

Was this fulfilled? Let’s look at Scripture references to show the spread of the Gospel:

“First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.” Romans 1:8

“But I say, Have they not heard (the Gospel)? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.” Romans 10:18

“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:” Romans 16:25-26

Upon the Apostle Stephen’s stoning, a great persecution was raised against all who professed their belief in the Messiah. We are immediately told by St. Luke, that “there was a great persecution against the church which was at Jerusalem;” and that “they were all scattered abroad throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.”

An early legend says they cast lots and divided up the world to determine who would go where, so all could hear about Messiah. They suffered greatly for their faith and in most cases met violent deaths on account of their bold witness.

Peter undertook a missionary journey to Lydda, Joppa and Caesarea.

Andrew went to the “land of the man-eaters,” in what is now the Soviet Union. Believers there claim him as the first to bring the gospel to their land. He also preached in Asia Minor, modern-day Turkey, and in Greece.

“Doubting” Thomas was probably most active in the area east of Syria. Tradition has him preaching as far east as Parthia and India, where the ancient Marthoma Christians revere him as their founder.

Philip preached in many villages of Samaria and the cities of Caesarea. He possibly had a powerful ministry in Carthage in North Africa and then in Asia Minor, where he converted the wife of a Roman proconsul.

Matthew the tax collector and writer of a Gospel, ministered in Persia and Ethiopia.

Bartholomew had widespread missionary travels attributed to him by tradition: to India with Thomas, back to Armenia, and also to Ethiopia and Southern Arabia.

James the son of Alpheus, is one of at least three James referred to in the New Testament. There is some confusion as to which is which, but this James is reckoned to have ministered in Syria.

Simon the Zealot, so the story goes, ministered in Persia. Surnamed Zelotes, preached the Gospel in Mauritania, Africa, and even in Britain

Matthias was the apostle chosen to replace Judas. Tradition sends him to Syria with Andrew.

John was the leader of the church in the Ephesus area and is said to have taken care of Mary the mother of Messiah in his home. The churches of Smyrna, Pergamos, Sardis, Philadelphia, Laodicea, and Thyatira, were founded by him.

Luke – The evangelist, was the author of the Gospel which goes under his name. He traveled with Paul through various countries.

In the book of Revelation, Messiah addressed the established assemblies of beleivers of Ephesus, Pergamos, Smyrna, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea; which were all in the Roman province of Asia.

Albert Barnes’ Notes on the Bible:

And this gospel–shall be preached in all the world. The evidence that this was done is to be chiefly derived from the New Testament, and there it is clear. Thus Paul declares that it was preached to every creature under heaven, Colossians 1:6,23 that the faith of the Romans was spoken of throughout rite whole world, Romans 1:8 that he preached in Arabia, Galations 1:17 and at Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, Romans 15:19. We know also that he travelled through Asia Minor, Greece, and Crete; that he was in Italy, and probably in Spain and Gaul, Romans 15:24-28. At the same time, the other apostles were not idle; and there is full proof that within thirty years after this prophecy was spoken, churches were established in all these regions.

For a witness unto all nations. This preaching the gospel indiscriminately to all the Gentiles shall be a proof to them, or a witness, that the division between the Jews and Gentiles was about to be broken down. Hitherto the blessings of revelation had been confined to the Jews. They were the peculiar people of God. His messages had been sent to them only. When, therefore, God sent the gospel to all other people, it was proof, or a witness unto them, that the peculiar Jewish economy was at an end.

Then shall the end come. The end of the Jewish economy. The destruction of the temple and city.

John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible

And this Gospel of the kingdom, Which Christ himself preached, and which he called and sent his apostles to preach, in all the cities of Judah; by which means men were brought into the kingdom of the Messiah, or Gospel dispensation; and which treated both of the kingdom of grace and glory, and pointed out the saints’ meetness for the kingdom of heaven, and their right unto it, and gives the best account of the glories of it:

shall be preached in all the world; not only in Judea, where it was now confined, and that by the express orders of Christ himself; but in all the nations of the world, for which the apostles had their commission enlarged, after our Lord’s resurrection; when they were bid to go into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature; and when the Jews put away the Gospel from them, they accordingly turned to the Gentiles; and before the destruction of Jerusalem, it was preached to all the nations under the heavens; and churches were planted in most places, through the ministry of it:

for a witness unto all nations; meaning either for a witness against all such in them, as should reject it; or as a testimony of Christ and salvation, unto all such as should believe in him:

and then shall the end come; not the end of the world, as the Ethiopic version reads it, and others understand it; but the end of the Jewish state, the end of the city and temple: so that the universal preaching of the Gospel all over the world, was the last criterion and sign, of the destruction of Jerusalem; and the account of that itself next follows, with the dismal circumstances which attended it.
 

Heb 13:8

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oikoumené: the inhabited earth
Original Word: οἰκουμένη, ης, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikoumené
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kou-men'-ay)
Short Definition: the inhabited (Roman) world
Definition: (properly: the land that is being inhabited, the land in a state of habitation), the inhabited world, that is, the Roman world, for all outside it was regarded as of no account.
 

Heb 13:8

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I'm going to continue for keep sake:

Do you see all these things, now? Buildings that existed 2000 years ago? Why would Jesus ask the disciples, "Do you see all these things", if these things occur 2000 years later?

Matt 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings.

Matt 24:2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Matt 24:3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” when these things will be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”
 

Heb 13:8

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There goes that Greek again. Greek, God's chosen language..

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matthew 24:30

The Greek word for ‘earth’, ‘ge’, does not mean the whole earth, but rather it means ‘country or land’, in this case the land of Israel.

It’s the same word used in Matthew 2:20 “Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land(ge) of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child’s life.”

http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/
 

Heb 13:8

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Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: Matthew 24:29

The ‘sun, moon and stars’ are symbolic of earthly dignitaries, great political authorities and great lights in the political or religious heavens.

We know this because in Genesis 37:8-10, Joseph had a dream, ..”And this time, the sun, the moon, and the eleven stars bowed down to me. So he told it to his father and his brothers; and his father rebuked him and said to him, “What is this dream that you have dreamed? Shall your mother and I and your brothers indeed come to bow down to the earth before you?” It was symbolic of the power structure.

Isaiah used this same terminology when he referred to the judgment of God against the leadership of Babylon in Isaiah 13:10 “For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light; The sun will be darkened in its going forth, And the moon will not cause its light to shine.“ And indeed, the power of Babylon was destroyed by the Medo-Persian empire.

The disciples would have clearly understood that it was symbolic.

This points to the desolation of the Jewish leadership system; symbolically referred to as the Sun (High Priest), Moon (Jewish council) and stars (rabbis).

This fulfilled the prophecy in Daniel 12:7, which foretold that the power of the holy people, the Jewish leadership, would be scattered.

And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

As Adam Clarke wrote,

“In the prophetic language, great commotions upon earth are often represented under the notion of commotions and changes in the heavens: – The fall of Babylon is represented by the stars and constellations of heaven withdrawing their light, and the sun and moon being darkened. See Isaiah 13:9-10. The destruction of Egypt, by the heaven being covered, the sun enveloped with a cloud, and the moon withholding her light. Ezekiel 32:7-8. The destruction of the Jews by Antiochus Epiphanes is represented by casting down some of the host of heaven, and the stars to the ground. See Daniel 8:10.”

http://theolivetdiscourse.com/the-sun-moon-and-stars-of-matthew-24-29/
 

Heb 13:8

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And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:31

Other references to Messiah’s return includes that the dead will rise first, but that is missing from this text, telling you that is not the proper context.

The word angel (aggelos) doesn’t just point to the angels of heaven, but to leaders and messengers.

An example of messengers is in Luke 9:52, where the messengers were probably James and John.

“And sent messengers (aggelos) before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.“

The Early church had fled to the mountains. The Roman siege of Jerusalem is over. Jerusalem lay in ruins, so there is no returning. The leaders now are being sent out to proclaim the Gospel, to gather in the elect of Elohim, to continue their mission to all parts of the Roman world.

Messiah has setup His kingdom. His temple is made up of His people. His bride, called Holy Jerusalem, is His city to rule in. He is the High Priest, and with a trumpet blast He is sending out His Israelite priests to all the world to gather in the harvest of the elect.

http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/
 

n2thelight

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Marcus O'Reillius said:
Isaiah has many different passages which describe the Millennial period for Israel, when they will live at peace in the world, not only with their enemies, but creation itself.

In these passages, people are being born, and they die.

So I don't agree with your conclusion.

If you want to argue further, I can trot those passages out, and you can dismiss them all you want - and we're right back to where we started.




And because you have assigned this purpose to the Millennium, I can see that you won't change one bit.

Whereas Scripture tells us we will be Priests of God, and the sacrificial system is re-instituted in a slightly different form than from before - and all the Jews come to Jesus within this system of worship, and so too do the surrounding nations, the meek, who inherit the earth during the Millennium.

We rule in Christ's stead from the "camp" of Jerusalem.

The purpose of the Millennium as I see Scripture, is to save "all" of Israel; they are the "Sheep" who enter God's eternal Kingdom at the second Resurrection.
What part of ALL don't you understand in the below

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

Paul is now going to show us a mystery that deals with our generation, for a mystery is something that cannot be understood. However, when the details and clues of the mystery are know, then it is no longer a mystery. This mystery deals with a time when something is going to happen all over the earth to all flesh bodies, when these flesh bodies are not die anymore. Why will this be? Because all people living in their flesh bodies will be changed instantlyfrom their flesh bodies, into their new incorruptible bodies. We have already established that each of us have two bodies, one is of the flesh, and the other body is a spiritual body that is within our flesh body. The spiritual body is not made alive or freed from the flesh body until the flesh body is done away with.

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The time that it will take to change all the physical or natural bodies on this earth into their spiritual bodies will be faster than you can wink your eye. It is instant. Paul is telling us that this change will come "at the last trump", and that is when there are no more trumps. He identifies that trumpet as the seventh trumpet, and we know that this is the very moment when Jesus Christ comes back to earth to establish His Millennium kingdom, right here on earth. We are talking about God's trumpets here and on the sixth trumpet Satan comes to earth to deceive the whole world.

If you are waiting for a rapture, then you are going to be raptured by someone other than Jesus Christ for He is coming to earth to set up His kingdom here. The seventh trump is the exact time when the change takes place, and at no other place.

Remember the "dead" are the "spiritually dead" in Christ. "Raised" again means to "become awakened", to become active from another existence. The soul will shed its flesh and blood body to take on the new spiritual body, which is the incorruptible body. You may be spiritually dead, but you will also take on your new incorruptible body, which you will live in for the Millennium age kingdom of Christ.

Everyone is going to enter into the only dimension whereby any soul can be judged. This change from the flesh body into your new spiritual or incorruptible has nothing to do with the condition of your soul. If you were lost before, you still will be lost, and if you have received Jesus Christ and are under His shed blood, you will be in that same spiritual condition. What is happening is at the sounding of the seventh which is the last trumpet all flesh will be done away with, and all souls will now exist in their spiritual bodies

http://www.theseason.org/1corin/1corin15.htm
 

Marcus O'Reillius

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n2thelight said:
What part of ALL don't you understand in the below
If you ascribe to that website, you need a real education in basic Christian theology.

No minister, pastor, or priest in the Protestant denominations I know of through my pastor thinks that the "dead" this website says are "spiritually dead" - in fact, quite the opposite.

Nor does the "last trumpet" mean after all the Trumpet judgments have blown. The Last Trumpet is a named Trumpet blown by God; the seven Trumpets of His Wrath are blown by Angels.

  • The Last Trumpet is blown on the Day of the Lord, which in the Seal/Scroll chronology of Revelation's broad overview (ch 4-11 exclusive of 11:1-13) - happens coincidentally with the sixth Seal.

  • Likewise, in the detailed parallel account of Revelation's one 'seven' (ch 13-16 inclusive) - the Harvest happens after the talking image midpoint abomination and when Two Laws go into effect - then the 144,000 are mustered with Jesus on the earth, 3 Angels complete the Great Commission and warn the wicked God is coming for them, and THEN Jesus harvests the Elect upon the earth.

  • Furthermore, in the Olivet Discourse, the same order of events unfolds: Mt 24:15 - the (midpoint) abomination of desolation; Mt 24:22-3 - the shortened Great Tribulation; Mt 24:29 - the precursor sign of the Day of the Lord: the sun/moon/star sign (which is repeated in the sixth Seal); Mt 24:30 - the sign of the Son of Man (scrolling of the sky from the sixth Seal) and Jesus' arrival on the clouds; and THEN Jesus gathers up the Elect from the earth.
The Last Trumpet ushers in the Seven Bowl Judgments - the last one of which is poured out on the desolator as per Daniel 9:27.

So I reject your alternate universe, your website, and your eschatology.
 

Heb 13:8

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5.0 out of 5 starsKing Davids Seer
ByElaineon December 17, 2016
Format: Paperback|Verified Purchase

An excellent book, taken from Old Testament scripture, proving the pre-tribulation rapture, the 7 year tribulation and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ at the conclusion of the Tribulation. Some of the scrolls were found hidden with the Dead Sea Scrolls, and other scrolls have been found proving that The Seer Gad was with King David during Davids rule over Israel. An excellent book that every born-again Christian should read!!

https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/153916487X/ref=cm_cr_getr_d_paging_btm_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=five_star&reviewerType=avp_only_reviews&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=1
 

Heb 13:8

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chozeh: a seer
Original Word: חֹזֶה
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: chozeh
Phonetic Spelling: (kho-zeh')
Short Definition: seer

pact (1), prophets (1), seer (12), seers (3).

1 Chron 29:29 As for the events of King David's reign, from beginning to end, they are written in the records of Samuel the seer, the records of Nathan the prophet and the records of Gad the seer,
 

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[SIZE=medium]Not only does the bible [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]not[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] teach that there are two distinct peoples of God, Israel and the Church, but it is very explicitly opposed to this idea. John 10:16, John 17:22-23, Ephesians 4:4-6, Colossians 3:11[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]For one thing, the Church, defined as the group of true believers of God, [/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]existed in the Old Testament, long before the outpouring of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 7:38, and furthermore, the clear teaching of the New Testament is that the modern day Church is really just the expansion of God's people, He originally chose.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]According to Paul being an Israelite has never been based on anything other than faith in God, Romans 2:28-29 & 9:6-8 and only those who have been called according to God's promise are Abraham's true seed. Romans 9:8[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Hence, all who have faith are Abraham's children, and are the true Israelites of God.[/SIZE][SIZE=medium] Galatians 3:26-29

When Paul deals extensively with the whole question of the place of Jews and Gentiles in the people of God, in Romans 11, he shows that there is just one people, symbolized by one good olive tree; unbelieving individual Jews may be broken off of that tree of true Israel and believing individual Christian Gentiles may be grafted in; but there is still one tree, one body, one people of God.
[/SIZE] [SIZE=medium]Paul teaches elsewhere that there is no difference between Jew and Gentile in Christ, but that all believers are members of the same body, citizens of the one congregation of the Israelites of God and the inheritors of all the promises made to Abraham. Ephesians 2:11-22, 3:6, Galatians 4:26-31, Phil. 3:20, Hebrews 12:22-23[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In short, there is and always has been just one people of God, and that people includes all those who are grafted in to God's “good olive tree” to become [/SIZE][SIZE=medium]Abraham's children by faith, people from every tribe, race, nation and language, every true Christian believer[/SIZE][SIZE=medium]. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8, Psalms 73:1[/SIZE]