Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

Taken · Mar 21, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
i guess both should happen, but we have a propensity to believe what we want to come true, and ignore anything that disputes the belief

Well, "both" heartful belief and mindful belief can happen...but there is an order.

Men are natrual, begin in the natural, and begin hearing the Word of God in the natural (carnal mindedness).

It is by hearing naturally, that supernaturally the mans hearts thoughts are given Faith from God.

It is by the thoughts in a mans heart, a man confesses Belief in the Lord.

Thereafter; the man becomes, forgiven, saved, born again, receives the indwelling Spirit of God; and the MAN IS PREPARED to convert HIS OWN MINDS thoughts, to be in SUBJECTION to his Hearts thoughts.

Thus there is an order; for the mind to BECOME like the MIND of Christ; and the man who accomplishes such, is spiritually walking in perfection.

God Bless,
Taken

tabletalk · Mar 21, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
WRONG.

God doesn't "force" a person to stay with Him - just as he doesn't force anybody to follow Him.
The god that YOU have invented is a Cosmic Rapist who forces His love on his followers.

God doesn't drag ANYBODY kicking and screaming into Heaven if they don't want to be with Him.

After He changes their heart, they do want to be with Him.
Before He changes their heart, they are His enemy.

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Taken said:
Water ... even the "wet kind", as if their is another kind...lol, funny.

Water was routinely used to CLEANSE the (corrupt) body.
It was taught and acceptable for Priests to Cleanse themselves before entering the Temple.
To cleanse their feet before walking on holy ground.
To cleanse, cleanse, cleanse, WITH WATER.

John the Baptist CALLED to cleanse the WHOLE body ... with "wet" water...lol

A foreshadow; of one becoming CLEANSED in Jesus' PURE BLOOD.
But first you would have to KNOW, all the water cleansing, ( is an act of men) and is a prelude to cleansing (of an act of God) that is greater and Permanent.

And the TRUE Spiritual Baptism of Permanently receiving the indwelling of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Which is brought on by the obedience of submitting to WATER Baptism.

Regardless of what many Protestants believe - Salvation is conditional.
You cannot hope to be saved if you simply "Accept Christ" then live a life of disobedience.

Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of my Father in heaven.

Taken said:
You require a plain one-liner in your own words revealed in Scripture, for you to comprehend according to your mind.

The KNOWLEDGE is revealed throughout the teaching IN Scripture.
The UNDERSTANDING of the knowledge is revealed to individuals FROM GOD.

So while you repeatedly present your Carnal minded argument; there is NOT a Carnal minded answer to a Spiritual event!

And this is the mess that is Protestantism.

One guy says that Scripture "taught" him one thing and another guy says that Scripture taught him something completely different.
How can they BOTH be right?? NOT every Protestant believes in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

WHO is right and WHO is wrong, hmmmmm?

Taken said:
Oh good grief...Don't WANT TO SUFFER?
You have got to be kidding. Men who have become saved and born again; are subject to suffering daily. Bad mouthed, bullied, houses burned, publically mocked, and killed.

A Pre-Trib "Rapture" IS wishful thinking because it is nowhere described in Scripture.

Taken said:
Open your eyes man; tribulations of saved and born again men is not exclusive to the "early" church, it's still under your nose today!

And yet, YOU believe that future Christians will be "pulled out" before further suffering takes place.
This is anti-Biblical nonsense.

Taken said:
There is a difference between the Son of man descending to the clouds, calling up his CHURCH, who are saved, born again, righteous, and have peace, and then another calling up of men who, during the first 3 1/2 years, turn to Christ and become His, then, the Great Tribulation during the last 3 1/2 years,
Void of His people, Void of God, the Gods Wrath upon the earth, then His descending to earth.

And yet, Scripture NEVER speaks of this.

It NEVER talks about or prophesies that the Church will be yanked out of the world before the Tribulation.
The Church has ALWAYS been in the thick of persecution and has NEVER been spared, so what makes you think that it will in the future?
Answer: Wishful thinking and nothing else . . .

Taken said:
Stupid and brainless; is irrelevant when it comes to Spiritual things. Spiritual things are about Understanding things according to God and the Spiritual relationship between God forward to a mans spirit, not his mind.

And FYI- I doubt anyone is considering, gee, I wonder what the Catholics think; who cares what any other man "thinks with his mind"; when they are more concerned with Understanding what their Spirit God has prepared for their understanding.

"Spiritual things"??
How is accusing me pf Pope worship a "Spiritual thing"??

It's nothing more than the usual anti-Catholic manure . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

tabletalk said:
After He changes their heart, they do want to be with Him.
Before He changes their heart, they are His enemy.

Then you'll have to debunk the dozen or so verses I have presented on numerous posts that say you CAN lose your "secure" place.
Until you can DO that - you're just blowing hot wind . . .

GodsGrace · Mar 21, 2018

"ByGrace" said:
Hmm now you have me musing further.
Would it be right to say that when 1 John 3:9 says- " Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."
that he is speaking to the first sin...the choice to disobey God voice.
Which as I read it..Jesus came and destroyed what Satan did in the garden to man...Satan thought that he had destroyed man...but God sent The Man to destroy the work of the Devil.

1 John 3:9 is speaking about sins. Committing sins. If you notice in the verses before this, John says that we are children of God. The persons he's speaking to are already saved...what John is referring to is the sins that we commit, or, living a life of sin. I'd go with living a life of sin because he says we cannot do this if we are in Christ, but we can commit a sin if we are in Christ. He is admonishing us not to live a life of sin, Jesus also did this in Mathew 7:23 when He spoke of practicing lawlessness.
23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; DEPART FROMME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.’

But we still sin through the weakness of the flesh...we transgress the law of love. Somehow our 'self' nature gets in the way. Some days we dominate it, somedays the flesh weakness allows it to dominate us.
....which is why we are called to overcome daily, in and through Jesus Christ.

This I see as our daily walk of faith. ( for me the "once saved" bit, is in us acknowledging that Jesus Christ took my place on the cross...and His blood was shed for 'me'. ) The fight of faith is not having to daily keep saying ( but we do because we are still thankful and worship Him) 'thank you for saving me from the sin of Adam and rescuing me from hell.' No our fight of faith is endeavouring to walk in His Spirit and not keep falling to the lust of the flesh and all sins against love.

I agree. But I do confess my weaknesses every day and thank Him every day for what He did for me.

Thankfully As David in the Psalms said " For he knows our frame; he remembers that we are dust..."
Again I am reminded that God sees and knows each heart...e knows the true and He knows the posers....therefore He says in 1 John ..as we walk in His light as committedly as we can...with our whole heart toward Him..then the blood of Jesus cleanses us as we walk the Christian path.

My two cents....

Amen.
Agreed again.
Not much to add to the above!

Rollo Tamasi · Mar 21, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Not MY God - not the God of Scripture.
This is a "god" that has been invented by those who believe in OSAS.

Oh I invented God that is called the Cosmic Rapist?
How do you know me so well to say this?
You refer to God as a Cosmic Rapist and you blame me.
I feel sorry for you.
You are an absolute loser in life.
You will never be happy and then you will die.

Rollo Tamasi · Mar 21, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Then you'll have to debunk the dozen or so verses I have presented on numerous posts that say you CAN lose your "secure" place.
Until you can DO that - you're just blowing hot wind . . .

All your verses are misused.
I'll prove it.
Give me one at a time and I'll prove it.

GodsGrace · Mar 21, 2018

Taken said:
You would think, after death OBVIOUS, yet some teach, all will be saved, which is in error.

It is true, ALL WILL BELIEVE, but not all will be Saved.

It is true, ALL Bodies shall be Raised, but not all will be glorified.

The decision making for a man to Receive Salvation is during the time, the man is ALIVE in his own body. The body's life is it's BLOOD.
After physical DEATH, which is the death of the BODY, it's BLOOD, when raised up;
Glorified
Or
Not
It is void of it's LIFE, (ie it's blood), and thus cannot THEN receive salvation for It's Life.

The one whose body is raise glorified, is the manifestation of its Spiritual bodily life (void of blood)

The one whose body is raised WITHOUT glorification, is VOID of its blood and having received a Spiritual bodily life.

God Bless,
Taken

What do you mean by the highlighted above?
"It is true, ALL WILL BELIEVE, but not all will be Saved."

Of course, the rest is true.
Some cannot accept this. So we have annihaism, or whatever it's called. Or some believe hell will last a second and it's over. Some believe everyone will be saved. All we need to know is this:
Whoever Believes will be saved. It seems simple enough.

GodsGrace · Mar 21, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
i guess it depends upon your definition of saved

What's YOUR definition of saved?

Mine is that we're saved both right now and also after death.
After death we're saved from the wrath of God.
Right now we're saved from a lot of things too.
Misery, distress, caused perhaps by wrong choices that are not in keeping with God's natural laws. We're saved from the slavery to satan, and the such.

Taken · Mar 21, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Which is brought on by the obedience of submitting to WATER Baptism.

Water baptism was for CLEANSING, Before being CLEANSED in the Blood of Christ was revealed.

Now; Water baptism is a requirement to JOIN a Chruch as that Church's member.

Personally I favor Christ's Baptism of the Holy Spirit and His Church that He is the Foundation, the Rock and Head of.

Regardless of what many Protestants believe - Salvation is conditional.

True regardless of what many Protestants OR Catholics OR Jews OR anyone else believes...

Salvation is a Provisional Gift. If one does not CLAIM/Accept their Gift, they don't HAVE it!

You cannot hope to be saved if you simply "Accept Christ" then live a life of disobedience.

I don't HOPE to BE saved. I am saved.
Who says to live a life of disobedience?
Good grief man - Don't you know the POWER of God within a man, LEADS the man in ways that please Him?

Matt. 7:21

Click to expand...

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of my Father in heaven.

You should Heavily ponder on that verse...
As you think you are DOING the will of God, by teaching God DOES NOT KEEP MEN SAVED WHO HAVE COMMITED THEIR LIFE TO HIM;
Making Him a Liar!

And this is the mess that is Protestantism.

And your mess that you teach as a Catholic!

One

Click to expand...

guy says that Scripture "taught" him one thing and another guy says that Scripture taught him something completely different.
How can they BOTH be right??

Not a phenomen! You seem presumptuous that EVERY person LEARNS the EXACT same things at the EXACT same time. They don't.

Not ALL of Scripture APPLIES the SAME to everyone.....because DUH, not everyone DOES the exact same thing, at the exact same time.

NOT

Click to expand...

every Protestant believes in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture.

So? I would say every born again Protestant believes IN the Rapture....

And? No doubt some Protestants are as lazy as Catholics; sitting on the edge of their seat waiting for some Cleric to TELL THEM WHAT TO BELIEVE, but never bothering to really read and study it for themselves.

WHO

Click to expand...

is right and WHO is wrong, hmmmmm?

Who is RIGHT, is the guy who Trust to believe and submit unto Christ Thee Lord Jesus.

A Pre-Trib "Rapture" IS wishful thinking because it is nowhere described in Scripture.

Do you really think ALL knowledge and ALL understanding is written in a little book of Scriptures?

Do you really NOT KNOW, the Lords Indwelling Spirit CONTINUES teaching?

You spend so much time badmouthing everyone with "your" absolute "knowledge" and mindful understanding....you miss the opportunity to do what Scripture taught.
Call on the teacher, then sit down, be quite, and Listen!

John 21:25
And there are also MANY other things which Jesus did, the which, IF they should be written every one, I suppose that even the whole itself could not contain the bookS that should be written. Amen.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father and he SHALL give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you FOR EVER.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which IS the HOLY GHOST, whom the Father SHALL send in my Name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you.

And yet, YOU believe that future Christians will be "pulled out" before further suffering takes place.
This is anti-Biblical nonsense.

Simply; without a big long discussion that surpasses your understanding...

I believe the Lord has blessed the saved and born again with PEACE.

And NO, I do not believe the Tribulation or the Great Tribulation IS a time of PEACE.

And yet, Scripture NEVER speaks of this.

You know, that is Satan's dilemma too.
He can't find writing that does not exist in ink on paper. God Spiritually writes on a mans Heart!

It NEVER talks about or prophesies that the Church will be yanked out of the world before the Tribulation.
The Church has ALWAYS been in the thick of persecution and has NEVER been spared, so what makes you think that it will in the future?
Answer: Wishful thinking and nothing else . . .

Awesome. You have the question and the answer...too bad you are wrong, like so much you say.

"Spiritual things"??

Click to expand...

If you are asking of Spiritual things, you are poorly prepared student.

How

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is accusing me pf Pope worship a "Spiritual thing"??

Quote me saying that which you claim.

It's nothing more than the usual anti-Catholic manure . . .

FUNNY. First you have to make up something; claim I said it; then you get to spout off your anti-Catholic rhetoric.

Get over yourself. I don't care what the Catholics think or do. And by observing your supposed Catholic teaching; I am thankful to have not been indoctrinated in the nonsense you teach.

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Rollo Tamasi said:
Oh I invented God that is called the Cosmic Rapist?
How do you know me so well to say this?
You refer to God as a Cosmic Rapist and you blame me.
I feel sorry for you.
You are an absolute loser in life.
You will never be happy and then you will die.

First of all - I was responding to Taken - not to YOU.

Secondly - I never referred to God as a "Cosmic Rapist."
I referred to the "god" that Taken invented as a "Cosmic Rapist."

Finally - name-calling like YOU just did is against forum rules.
It's obvious that you have some serious emotional issued that need to be worked out with intense therapy . . .

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Rollo Tamasi said:
All your verses are misused.
I'll prove it.
Give me one at a time and I'll prove it.

I've posted them SEVERAL times now.
WHY didn't you try to address them one of those times??

Here they are again . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Taken said:
Water baptism was for CLEANSING, Before being CLEANSED in the Blood of Christ was revealed.
Now; Water baptism is a requirement to JOIN a Chruch as that Church's member.
Personally I favor Christ's Baptism of the Holy Spirit and His Church that He is the Foundation, the Rock and Head of.

And as I‘ve already shown you – Christ’s Baptism was done with WATER (John 3:5 John 3:22).

Taken said:
True regardless of what many Protestants OR Catholics OR Jews OR anyone else believes...
Salvation is a Provisional Gift. If one does not CLAIM/Accept their Gift, they don't HAVE it!

Correct.
And they can reject it later as well . . .

Taken said:
I don't HOPE to BE saved. I am saved.
Who says to live a life of disobedience?
Good grief man - Don't you know the POWER of God within a man, LEADS the man in ways that please Him?

The operative word here is “LEADS”. He LEADS us – He doesn’t FORCE us.

Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of my Father in heaven.

Taken said:
You should Heavily ponder on that verse...
As you think you are DOING the will of God, by teaching God DOES NOT KEEP MEN SAVED WHO HAVE COMMITED THEIR LIFE TO HIM;
Making Him a Liar!

No – what makes Him a “Liar” are people like YOU show teach this false doctrine of OSAS, which is rejected by His Word, as I have amply shown.

Taken said:
Not a phenomen! You seem presumptuous that EVERY person LEARNS the EXACT same things at the EXACT same time. They don't.
Not ALL of Scripture APPLIES the SAME to everyone.....because DUH, not everyone DOES the exact same thing, at the exact same time.

This is absolute NONSENSE.

The Word of God applies to ALL people because the Word is CHRIST. The Holy Spirit doesn’t teach that the same Scriptures mean different things to different people. God is NOT the God of confusion.

This is the man-made mess of Protestantism. Tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects ALL teaching different doctrines and ALL claiming that they were “personally led” by the Holy Spirit.

Taken said:
So? I would say every born again Protestant believes IN the Rapture....
And? No doubt some Protestants are as lazy as Catholics; sitting on the edge of their seat waiting for some Cleric to TELL THEM WHAT TO BELIEVE, but never bothering to really read and study it for themselves.

Then you don’t know your own kind. NOT all Protestants believe in a Pre-Tribulation “Rapture”.

As a matter of fact - according to a study by LifeWay Research, only 36% of senior Pastors teach a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. MOST believe that this even occurs at the 2nd Coming of Christ. Who are YOU to say that they’re NOT born again??

https://www.christiantoday.com/article/most-protestant-pastors-dont-believe-in-the-rapture-but-agree-on-second-coming-of-christ-survey-shows/85148.htm

Taken said:
Who is RIGHT, is the guy who Trust to believe and submit unto Christ Thee Lord Jesus.

And suppose they BOTH believe and submit unto Christ.

WHO is right and WHO is wrong??

Taken said:
Do you really think ALL knowledge and ALL understanding is written in a little book of Scriptures?
Do you really NOT KNOW, the Lords Indwelling Spirit CONTINUES teaching?

You spend so much time badmouthing everyone with "your" absolute "knowledge" and mindful understanding....you miss the opportunity to do what Scripture taught.
Call on the teacher, then sit down, be quite, and Listen!

John 21:25
And there are also MANY other things which Jesus did, the which, IF they should be written every one, I suppose that even the whole itself could not contain the bookS that should be written. Amen.

John 14:16
And I will pray the Father and he SHALL give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you FOR EVER.

John 14:26
But the Comforter, which IS the HOLY GHOST, whom the Father SHALL send in my Name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said to you.

And this ALL goes back to the perpetually-splintering mess that is Protestantism.
WHO is right and WHO is wrong if everybody claims that the Holy spirit taught them diametrically opposing views on the SAME Scripture verses??

As Ricky told Lucy – “You got a LOTTA splainin’ to do . . .”

Taken said:
Simply; without a big long discussion that surpasses your understanding...
I believe the Lord has blessed the saved and born again with PEACE.

We are NOT guaranteed happiness or peace in this world – but ONLY in the next.
Jesus said that we are going to SUFFER with Him in this world – not be rescued from it.

Taken · Mar 21, 2018

GodsGrace said:
What do you mean by the highlighted above?
"It is true, ALL WILL BELIEVE, but not all will be Saved."

In brief:

Isa 45:23
...every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear..

Rom 45:23
...every knee SHALL bow to me, and every tongue SHALL confess..

A FEW shall make their confession WHILE alive in their Life (blood).

Many will dead bodies, who die IN THEIR SIN, without Forgiveness; shall be raised to hell, and have their living souls (waiting in hell) imparted back into their body's.

The Lord SHALL appear before them.
They shall SEE HIM, and THEN BELIEVE.
And bow to him and confess belief.
But their body is void of IT"S LIFE (blood), thus there is NO forgiveness for a body without it's own life in it.

They shall stand in Judgement for having bodily alive STOOD in their SIN, Against God.

Their Judgement is to have the life in their soul departed out of their soul, and return to God who gave it.
Thus what remains is a body, without life, that is destroyed.
And a soul without life, that is destroyed.

God being Just and full of mercy, NEVER gave them a NEW Quickened forever living born again spirit. Thus nothing of them continues in eternal life. They become perished and remembered no more.

Mans blood, the life of man;
Gen 9:4, Gen 9:5

God Bless,
Taken

GodsGrace · Mar 21, 2018

Taken said:
In brief:

Isa 45:23
...every knee SHALL bow, every tongue SHALL swear..

Rom 45:23
...every knee SHALL bow to me, and every tongue SHALL confess..

A FEW shall make their confession WHILE alive in their Life (blood).

Many will dead bodies, who die IN THEIR SIN, without Forgiveness; shall be raised to hell, and have their living souls (waiting in hell) imparted back into their body's.

The Lord SHALL appear before them.
They shall SEE HIM, and THEN BELIEVE.
And bow to him and confess belief.
But their body is void of IT"S LIFE (blood), thus there is NO forgiveness for a body without it's own life in it.

They shall stand in Judgement for having bodily alive STOOD in their SIN, Against God.

Their Judgement is to have the life in their soul departed out of their soul, and return to God who gave it.
Thus what remains is a body, without life, that is destroyed.
And a soul without life, that is destroyed.

God being Just and full of mercy, NEVER gave them a NEW Quickened forever living born again spirit. Thus nothing of them continues in eternal life. They become perished and remembered no more.

Mans blood, the life of man;
Gen 9:4, Gen 9:5

God Bless,
Taken

I understand.
The time will come when all will see and know, but it will be too late to believe unto salvation. When every knee shall bow...

From the above I gather that you are one of those that believe unbelievers will simply perish? I don't care to debate this, just curious.

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
BOL, this is referring to the five crowns believers receive or do not receive at the Bema seat. What is the prize Paul is referring too? Take a look...

1 Crown of Life
2 Incorruptible Crown
3 Crown of Righteousness
4 Crown of Glory
5 Crown of Exaltation

1 Cor 9:24-27 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.
This is a verse about Salvation - not some reward that is separate from it.

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
And that's what the religious see, "the wet kind", but that's all you will be is wet without belief.
And WHO said that a person being Baptized doesn't have to believe??

BOL, the last trump and the great trump are seven years apart. These are two separate trumps explained by two separate words...

1 Thess 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up (harpazó) together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

Matt 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather (episunagó) his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Ummmmm, and where do either of these verses claim that they are SEVEN years apart??
These events occur simultaneously.

BreadOfLife · Mar 21, 2018

Heb 13:8 said:
It's something you'd have to get back? Not much of a gift then is it. How do we get back something that wasn't ours to begin with?

Why??
It's not God's fault that we threw it back in His face.

When somebody gives you a gift - they don't force you to keep it.
God doesn't force us to stay in our secure position. That's why Peter warns:
2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.

Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

Heb 13:8 said:
Justified by your works or your belief?
Rom 10:10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

First of all - belief is NOT faith.
Faith = Belief + Works.

James says emphatically:
James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and NOT by faith alone.

James reminds us that this is the case. Belief and works go hand-in-hand to produce saving faith (James 2:14-22)

This is why Jesus taught in the lesson of the Sheep and the Goats that the one who DOES His will is saved (Matt. 25:31-46).
He ALSO taught that those who simply call on His name won't be saved - but ONLY the one who will be saved is the one who DOES the will of the Father (Matt. 7:21).

Am I justified by belief or works?
I'm justified by BOTH.

bbyrd009 · Mar 21, 2018

somebody take a pitcher, i'm agreeing with BoL

Taken · Mar 21, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
And as I‘ve already shown you – Christ’s Baptism was done with WATER (John 3:5 John 3:22).

Correct.
And they can reject it later as well . . .

The operative word here is “LEADS”. He LEADS us – He doesn’t FORCE us.

What part of a man CHOOSING to make a committment to God; escapes you?

How is that FORCED?

Matt. 7:21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY the one who DOES the will of my Father in heaven.

No – what makes Him a “Liar” are people like YOU show teach this false doctrine of OSAS, which is rejected by His Word, as I have amply shown.

All you have shown is PEOPLE who have not RECEIVED SLAVATION, Don't have it.

WOW, not exactly a newflash.

The Word of God applies to ALL people because the Word is CHRIST.

No kidding. Apparently you do not comprehend NOT EVERY WORD of God, APPLIES to EVERY PERSON!

The Holy Spirit doesn’t teach that the same Scriptures mean different things to different people.

Again without understanding...
People learn at different paces.
Limited knowledge will result in limited understanding.

And apparently you have not LISTENED to a number of DIFFERENT clerics teaching the same thing out of Scripture, then GIVING DIFFERENT understandings of what the Scripture means. <---- which is precisely WHY, Carnal minded understanding is a FAIL!

God is NOT the God of confusion.

No kidding. He leaves that up to men to pretend they SPEAK HIS UNDERSTANDING FOR HIM....when Scripture teaches ONLY God gives the Understanding of HIS WORD, to men!

This is the man-made mess of Protestantism. Tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects ALL teaching different doctrines and ALL claiming that they were “personally led” by the Holy Spirit.

Feel better to get your anti-Protestant jabs in? LOL

Then you don’t know your own kind. NOT all Protestants believe in a Pre-Tribulation “Rapture”.

I don't KNOW everyone, so I can't say what others beleive.

As a matter of fact - according to a study by LifeWay Research, only 36% of senior Pastors teach a Pre-Tribulation Rapture. MOST believe that this even occurs at the 2nd Coming of Christ.

So? I am content with my Teacher, and I like the hours He is available ..24 7!!

Who are YOU to say that they’re NOT born again??

Your words, your claim, you own it, not me.

And suppose they BOTH believe and submit unto Christ.

"They BOTH"...identify who you are speaking of.

And this ALL goes back to the perpetually-splintering mess that is Protestantism.
WHO is right and WHO is wrong if everybody claims that the Holy spirit taught them diametrically opposing views on the SAME Scripture verses??

I don't know what "EVERYBODY" claims.

As Ricky told Lucy – “You got a LOTTA splainin’ to do . . .”

Nope and certainly I am not responsible for nonsense you make up and pretend I said it.

We are NOT guaranteed happiness or peace in this world – but ONLY in the next.
Jesus said that we are going to SUFFER with Him in this world – not be rescued from it.

Too bad for you.

2 Thes 3:16
The Lord of peace give (gave me) us peace always by all means..

1 Time 1:2
...Grace, Mercy, Peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Too bad for you. Bet you grabbed the Grace and Mercy...too bad He forgot to give you Peace.

Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

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