Here's the problem. You do not need to chose what you experience. If you experience Christ, you do not need to chose to believe in him any more than you need to chose to believe you exist. Those who need to choose to believe are either deceived or do not know and experience him personally.
Are Pastors Teaching a Watered-Down Gospel?
- Thread starter Soverign Grace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Some do. Some always have, going back millinum.
More important question: are you learning a watered-down Gospel? Where is your scripture study and prayer? Are you living a watered-down Gospel? Are you following Christ earnestly with your heart, mind, and soul... or just be luke warm about everything?
(These questions are meant for everyone, as a personal quandary, not to post here)
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
You've hit the nail on the head. Believing or refusing to believe is A CHOICE. It has always been a choice since Adam refused to obey God.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
- Feb 24, 2011
- 11,744
- 5,599
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
I didn't get into the sermon...but YES, Pastors are teaching a watered-down gospel.
The church my wife and I attend regularly has a great reputation as being biblical. But even today the pastor preached on Ephesians 5 giving 45 minutes to the marriages of men and women, and 30 seconds to the mystery of God and His marriage to the church. What is that...90% watered down? It was all good...but not God. It's sad.
The church my wife and I attend regularly has a great reputation as being biblical. But even today the pastor preached on Ephesians 5 giving 45 minutes to the marriages of men and women, and 30 seconds to the mystery of God and His marriage to the church. What is that...90% watered down? It was all good...but not God. It's sad.
Very true. There may still be a relative minority of preachers who are preaching the true Gospel and the whole counsel of God. There may be an even smaller minority who are teaching Bible prophecy and Bible doctrines correctly.
However, we need not focus on the negatives (such as your extensive posts in this thread). Those who choose a watered-down Gospel will never be dissuaded to repent and go back to the truth. Just as those who chose false doctrines and false theologies will never give them up (as noted on Christian forums).
As Jesus told His disciples"Leave them alone". Let the blind lead the blind. Each one must give account to God eventually.
It's actually 98.88889% (I think my math hang-up is a gift and a curse at the same time.)
Last edited:
ScottA
Well-Known Member
- Feb 24, 2011
- 11,744
- 5,599
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
Yeah, and I was generous at that. I was more like 20 seconds on the mystery of God and marriage.
ScottA
Well-Known Member
- Feb 24, 2011
- 11,744
- 5,599
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- United States
"The time is at hand. He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”
Honestly, everything that Jane_doe says, you are there with a dig - we know where you stand, we know you don't approve, we know as we have heard it over and over again.
Rita
It's a shame they're allowed on TV to mislead. It reminds me of the verse "the blind leading the blind."
We go to a bible study and it's a good group. The pastor is rough around the edges but very sincere and he admits when he doesn't know something. His wife is one of the nicest people I've ever met. Another pastor goes there too and he's very humble, and very quiet - it's a good group of people and I thank God that we tried it. We really like it. So it's similar to a home group - I get more out of it than I do going to church.
I didn't see where CI posted - I don't want to see Jane_Doe be made to feel uncomfortable because I've felt what she must be feeling. I think if they want to talk and CI wants to explain what he wants to share and Jane_Doe is willing to listen they should do it privately. Would that work for you both? So many Christians hurt one another - I saw it in every church and on every forum, with some being worse than others. I wonder how God feels about it.
If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 1 John 4:20
Not sure that would work, CL clearly would not class Jane_doe as a brother or sister ( not sure if you are a man or women jane_doe, I believe that name simply means ' unidentified ' !! )
There was a post earlier where he simply conveyed that they should not be here ' as this was a Christian forum '
I just get fed up with the digs - it's like a witch hunt , but that is just my opinion X
Jane_doe seems quite capable of handling it , but I just felt the need to say something.
We are all adults, this is a meeting place - we should all be able to come here and chat without it constantly being a ' your wrong ' ' I'm right ' conversation. I like Jane_doe being around X
Rita
I too am disheartened at some of the anti-Christian behavior on here. The basic tenets of the faith are being disregarded. Yes I recall you saying that I was capable of defending myself - I believe you admonished Bobby Jo and my husband for coming to my defense when two people on here were attacking me quite nastily.
I don't like seeing Jane_Doe being made to feel uncomfortable which is why I suggested that the two of them discuss it privately. I have noticed that remarks are being made repeatedly. It's easy to see the state of one's heart on here by one's posts.
Last edited:
I read this yesterday:
What in the World has Happened to America?
Earlier today, my attention was directed to a thread on an Internet discussion forum that lamented how much America had changed over the years. I don’t know exactly why, but the posts on that thread really touched me. Those of us that are old enough to remember what America was like before the Internet grew up in a much simpler time. Yes, we didn’t have all of the luxuries that we take for granted in 2019, but we found joy in the simple things and people were generally much happier. Today, we seemingly have so much going for us, and yet people are lonelier, more disconnected and more depressed than ever before. The suicide rate in the United States is up 34 percent since the year 2000, approximately 40 million American adults have an anxiety disorder, and overdosing on drugs is now the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 50. Clearly, our society is not heading in the right direction.
So that probably explains why a thread entitled “I Cry When I Think Back How Things Used To Be” got my attention so much. This is what the author of the thread posted…
In just five sentences, this individual captured what so many of us have been feeling.
Of course, most of us didn’t grow up on a farm. I certainly didn’t. But without a doubt, there are lots of people out there that are saddened by the contrast between what America used to be and what America is today.
Another person that grew up near Boston also shared memories of simpler days…
Once upon a time in America, people actually sat on their porches and talked with their neighbors. I know that may sound quite strange to many of you, but it is true. Sadly, most houses that are being built today don’t even have real front porches because they are considered to be a waste of space.
So what has caused such a dramatic shift in our country?
Well, the truth is that there are a lot of factors, but one that kept coming up over and over in the thread was social media. Here is what one astute poster had to say…
You don’t have to spend much time on social media to realize that a lot of people are downright nasty, mean and cruel.
It isn’t healthy to spend much time mentally immersed in that type of environment, but many of our young people are online almost constantly, and as a result, they are developing all sorts of problems…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That resonated with me because we do live in a very cruel society now. My husband and his men all sat around talking about the younger crop of people coming into their company. They all said that they're cutthroat, without principles. I think that one of the worst incubators is public school today. But more so I think that Christians need to lead the way. If we aren't even kind to one another and if we accept it or give a wink and a nod to those who abuse another and we're just glad it isn't being done to me - I think it's all evil in the sight of God. There is a perversity in human nature where people like to gather around and watch a fight - similar to watching the death matches in ancient Rome. I hope that we all learn that these things are an abomination in God's sight.
We've seen overt sin practiced in every church we've been in. The blindness there was blinding itself in its brilliance. I wonder if we can look for ways to improve and maybe it should start with us. I like the quote attributed to Gandhi: "Be the change you want to see in the world."
There is a lot I miss about America too.
What in the World has Happened to America?
Earlier today, my attention was directed to a thread on an Internet discussion forum that lamented how much America had changed over the years. I don’t know exactly why, but the posts on that thread really touched me. Those of us that are old enough to remember what America was like before the Internet grew up in a much simpler time. Yes, we didn’t have all of the luxuries that we take for granted in 2019, but we found joy in the simple things and people were generally much happier. Today, we seemingly have so much going for us, and yet people are lonelier, more disconnected and more depressed than ever before. The suicide rate in the United States is up 34 percent since the year 2000, approximately 40 million American adults have an anxiety disorder, and overdosing on drugs is now the leading cause of death for Americans under the age of 50. Clearly, our society is not heading in the right direction.
So that probably explains why a thread entitled “I Cry When I Think Back How Things Used To Be” got my attention so much. This is what the author of the thread posted…
In just five sentences, this individual captured what so many of us have been feeling.
Of course, most of us didn’t grow up on a farm. I certainly didn’t. But without a doubt, there are lots of people out there that are saddened by the contrast between what America used to be and what America is today.
Another person that grew up near Boston also shared memories of simpler days…
Once upon a time in America, people actually sat on their porches and talked with their neighbors. I know that may sound quite strange to many of you, but it is true. Sadly, most houses that are being built today don’t even have real front porches because they are considered to be a waste of space.
So what has caused such a dramatic shift in our country?
Well, the truth is that there are a lot of factors, but one that kept coming up over and over in the thread was social media. Here is what one astute poster had to say…
You don’t have to spend much time on social media to realize that a lot of people are downright nasty, mean and cruel.
It isn’t healthy to spend much time mentally immersed in that type of environment, but many of our young people are online almost constantly, and as a result, they are developing all sorts of problems…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That resonated with me because we do live in a very cruel society now. My husband and his men all sat around talking about the younger crop of people coming into their company. They all said that they're cutthroat, without principles. I think that one of the worst incubators is public school today. But more so I think that Christians need to lead the way. If we aren't even kind to one another and if we accept it or give a wink and a nod to those who abuse another and we're just glad it isn't being done to me - I think it's all evil in the sight of God. There is a perversity in human nature where people like to gather around and watch a fight - similar to watching the death matches in ancient Rome. I hope that we all learn that these things are an abomination in God's sight.
We've seen overt sin practiced in every church we've been in. The blindness there was blinding itself in its brilliance. I wonder if we can look for ways to improve and maybe it should start with us. I like the quote attributed to Gandhi: "Be the change you want to see in the world."
There is a lot I miss about America too.
I will have to go back and check what I said on the other thread ( at that age where my memory sometimes fails ) I know I had a problem with how your husband responded, so it wasn't so much that he defended you, it was more that he was really angry and it showed, he lost control. Defending others is not wrong, but how you defend can be. To be honest that thread ended up becoming a shouting match with everyone ' expressing themselves ' !!
Rita
Yes but pointing the finger at someone's reponse to harassment and goading while not pointing at the origin of it is equally as wrong. We should not put the responsibility on the ones who step in to stop harassment and wrongdoing especially when it's ongoing and getting ugly. I did nothing, absolutely nothing to Grace and Willie yet was stalked and subjected to constant picking, harassment, and ridicule about what I posted, and whose thread I posted on and the two of them always joined in tandem in raucous posts. The bible talks about this joining of another in sin - "Though hand join hand the wicked shall not go unpunished." Willie started again with it yesterday. It's called sin.
There is usually an underlying problem that make people act that way - my husband said something is wrong with them and to avoid them. Emotionally healthy people don't feel the need to harass or heckle another - it's especially out of place on a Christian forum. It's usually linked to some underlying trouble they have within themselves or they're being a vessel for the evil one as the accuser. Yet you pointed to the response rather than the ongoing harassment. I was made to feel uneasy whenever I would see either of their faces appear on a post - I would cringe, expecting an assault. No one should come to a Christian forum and be subjected to that. Then Willie started goading and bringing my husband into it - so I let my husband respond to him. I stand by my husband's and Bobby Jo's words 100%.
Sometimes anger is a healthy emotion when it is used to help stop a behavior. Don't act like one's ears are so sensitive as to never have heard the language used - it's an act. We've all heard that and worse. And in my estimation it was justified. "Christians" can be just as mean and down and dirty as the unsaved. Of course there's also the possibility of false brethren on a forum. What would you do if you saw someone getting beat up by several neighborhood bullies and the relative of one went out and shouted at them to stop it? Would you admonish the victim and his relation? I would hope not. The behavior was cruel and needed to be stopped. I've lived a long time and I've seen that at times well-placed anger has helped to stop wrongdoing. There is a term in psychology "blame the victim" - we have to be on guard that we don't engage in that.
We may think that we're going to save the day by intervening Butterfly, but we may actually make things worse. It was duplicitous and double-minded to admonish Bobby Jo and my husband for defending me. You said that they were making things worse yet said not a word about Willie and Grace's ongoing harassment of me. You told them that I was perfectly capable of defending myself and now you intervened and are doing the very same thing that you admonished my husband and Bobby Jo for. You're stepping in and defending Jane_Doe. That's duplicitous and double-minded. Do as I say not as I do.
One thing that came to me as I dealt with the troubling situation was that one's posts reflect the state of their heart. "Whatever is in the heart will come to the lips." A believer with discernment can almost tell what the ruling sin in another's life is by reading their posts. I prayed and the verse came to me:
"When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart. Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.” Proverbs 26:25-26
I felt that God brought that verse to mind to let me know that wrongdoers will be shown for what they are before everyone. When the dust settles the true believers will know what is happening and they are who I hope to meet on here. "As iron sharpens iron..."
I hope that in the future that you're careful about intervening. I think that you wanted to be a peacemaker which is good - we're told that blessed are the peacemakers. But we have to be careful that the judgements we make are wise and equitable. You shouldn't admonish someone else and then engage in the behavior that you admonished another for.
My hope in this is that we learn to treat one another with respect and love because true believers are dealing with the world, the evil one, and their own sin nature. Christians should be able to come here and be uplifted - not torn down. We have to be careful when we intervene because careless words or careless mis-identifying of the source of a problem can wound another and make things worse. We appoint ourselves as judge of another with our virtue signaling and admonishment and that's wrong when a rebuke is justified.
"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" Psalm 133
Something that I'm going to do is be more careful in what I say - and I hope that others will - because we never know what another is dealing with. I recently had another Christian share something about their harsh life situation and I was sad and disheartened in how they were treated by other "Christians." I shared how our former Pastor's wife committed suicide. It was terrible - she left seven children. I hate to say it but I don't blame her. If I had to be around judgmental "Christians" all the time picking, and critical of all I did I'd look for a way out too. I'm just sad that she didn't seek help from those who left the church and who weren't involved in that legalism and judgmentalism.
I hope that everyone can see how our words can wound another's spirit. I looked it up and was shocked at the high rates of suicide among Pastors and their wives. It made me look at things differently. I had thought that Pastors were making compromises with the world - and many are - but they also need our support and prayers.
There is usually an underlying problem that make people act that way - my husband said something is wrong with them and to avoid them. Emotionally healthy people don't feel the need to harass or heckle another - it's especially out of place on a Christian forum. It's usually linked to some underlying trouble they have within themselves or they're being a vessel for the evil one as the accuser. Yet you pointed to the response rather than the ongoing harassment. I was made to feel uneasy whenever I would see either of their faces appear on a post - I would cringe, expecting an assault. No one should come to a Christian forum and be subjected to that. Then Willie started goading and bringing my husband into it - so I let my husband respond to him. I stand by my husband's and Bobby Jo's words 100%.
Sometimes anger is a healthy emotion when it is used to help stop a behavior. Don't act like one's ears are so sensitive as to never have heard the language used - it's an act. We've all heard that and worse. And in my estimation it was justified. "Christians" can be just as mean and down and dirty as the unsaved. Of course there's also the possibility of false brethren on a forum. What would you do if you saw someone getting beat up by several neighborhood bullies and the relative of one went out and shouted at them to stop it? Would you admonish the victim and his relation? I would hope not. The behavior was cruel and needed to be stopped. I've lived a long time and I've seen that at times well-placed anger has helped to stop wrongdoing. There is a term in psychology "blame the victim" - we have to be on guard that we don't engage in that.
We may think that we're going to save the day by intervening Butterfly, but we may actually make things worse. It was duplicitous and double-minded to admonish Bobby Jo and my husband for defending me. You said that they were making things worse yet said not a word about Willie and Grace's ongoing harassment of me. You told them that I was perfectly capable of defending myself and now you intervened and are doing the very same thing that you admonished my husband and Bobby Jo for. You're stepping in and defending Jane_Doe. That's duplicitous and double-minded. Do as I say not as I do.
One thing that came to me as I dealt with the troubling situation was that one's posts reflect the state of their heart. "Whatever is in the heart will come to the lips." A believer with discernment can almost tell what the ruling sin in another's life is by reading their posts. I prayed and the verse came to me:
"When he speaketh fair, believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart. Whose hatred is covered by deceit, his wickedness shall be shewed before the whole congregation.” Proverbs 26:25-26
I felt that God brought that verse to mind to let me know that wrongdoers will be shown for what they are before everyone. When the dust settles the true believers will know what is happening and they are who I hope to meet on here. "As iron sharpens iron..."
I hope that in the future that you're careful about intervening. I think that you wanted to be a peacemaker which is good - we're told that blessed are the peacemakers. But we have to be careful that the judgements we make are wise and equitable. You shouldn't admonish someone else and then engage in the behavior that you admonished another for.
My hope in this is that we learn to treat one another with respect and love because true believers are dealing with the world, the evil one, and their own sin nature. Christians should be able to come here and be uplifted - not torn down. We have to be careful when we intervene because careless words or careless mis-identifying of the source of a problem can wound another and make things worse. We appoint ourselves as judge of another with our virtue signaling and admonishment and that's wrong when a rebuke is justified.
"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!" Psalm 133
Something that I'm going to do is be more careful in what I say - and I hope that others will - because we never know what another is dealing with. I recently had another Christian share something about their harsh life situation and I was sad and disheartened in how they were treated by other "Christians." I shared how our former Pastor's wife committed suicide. It was terrible - she left seven children. I hate to say it but I don't blame her. If I had to be around judgmental "Christians" all the time picking, and critical of all I did I'd look for a way out too. I'm just sad that she didn't seek help from those who left the church and who weren't involved in that legalism and judgmentalism.
I hope that everyone can see how our words can wound another's spirit. I looked it up and was shocked at the high rates of suicide among Pastors and their wives. It made me look at things differently. I had thought that Pastors were making compromises with the world - and many are - but they also need our support and prayers.
Last edited:
This "poor victim" started this whole thing by posting a clearly doctored phony video. I pointed it out to her, showing, explicitly, when and where the altering of the video occurred. She denied it at first, but when I made it so clear she couldn't continue denying it, she actually agreed the video was faked. Yet she seems to think I shouldn't have said anything about it, because there are other cases of bad things going on elsewhere... so that justified posting a fake, in her mind.
I think she wanted so much for it to be genuine, that she convinced herself the video was real at first. And I can understand that. But when you are shown it was faked, and AGREE that it was., there is no excuse for trying to justify posting it. In fact, I think she should have apologized for posting it, and should have deleted it. But, it is still there today, two months later.
This is possibly an indication of a mental disturbance. I called it an obsession.
I think she wanted so much for it to be genuine, that she convinced herself the video was real at first. And I can understand that. But when you are shown it was faked, and AGREE that it was., there is no excuse for trying to justify posting it. In fact, I think she should have apologized for posting it, and should have deleted it. But, it is still there today, two months later.
This is possibly an indication of a mental disturbance. I called it an obsession.
Last edited:
Sovereign grace if you had a problem with my post on the other thread then you should have said something to me then. You could be right about the double standards, but I am afraid we are all capable of it, including you. On forum life it is just not easy to remember every single post and every single thing that you say. Sometimes we feel the need to say something, sometimes someone else says something , sometimes we just sit back.
There are many posts I do not agree with, many things that go on that I choose to add to, but many I choose to not speak up about.
I cannot comment of all that has gone on with Grace and Willie, In this case you are right about the double standards, I apologise if it caused you hurt or an issue- I stand corrected.
However i do not appreciate being told ' i hope in future that you be careful about intervening ' you can hold me to account, as we all can with one another, but it doesn't mean that you can dictate or be condescending, as that is how that sentence came across !
Rita
There are many posts I do not agree with, many things that go on that I choose to add to, but many I choose to not speak up about.
I cannot comment of all that has gone on with Grace and Willie, In this case you are right about the double standards, I apologise if it caused you hurt or an issue- I stand corrected.
However i do not appreciate being told ' i hope in future that you be careful about intervening ' you can hold me to account, as we all can with one another, but it doesn't mean that you can dictate or be condescending, as that is how that sentence came across !
Rita
Similar threads
- Locked
