Angels and Devils

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Ziggy

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The word demons is not mentioned once in the Bible, so I'm sticking with devils.

The first time I find the word devils is here:
Lev 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

The word devil means:
STRONGS H8163:
sâʻîyr, saw-eer'; or שָׂעִר sâʻir; from H8175; shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by analogy, a faun:—devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

The first time this meaning is used is regarding Esau:
Gen 27:11 And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy H8163 man, and I am a smooth man:

Was the term "devils" slang for the offspring of Esau?
@Timtofly

thoughts?

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Timtofly

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The word demons is not mentioned once in the Bible, so I'm sticking with devils.

The first time I find the word devils is here:
Lev 17:7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

The word devil means:
STRONGS H8163:
sâʻîyr, saw-eer'; or שָׂעִר sâʻir; from H8175; shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by analogy, a faun:—devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

The first time this meaning is used is regarding Esau:
Gen 27:11 And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy H8163 man, and I am a smooth man:

I am not advocating for Greek mythology. I normally reject it as Satan's misinformation.

If you want to associate "devil" by definition with a mythological character, that would be Pan.

Was the term "devils" slang for the offspring of Esau?
@Timtofly

thoughts?

Hugs
I doubt it.

Was Easu mythologically associated with Pan? I don't know.

I do not see there being devils according to Scripture as literal created beings. Yes the term is found in the Bible to present the mindset of first century Jews. Does not mean God created them. Fishing boats and nets are words and concepts in the Bible. Does not mean God created them. To me the concept of a devil is just as benign as the concept of a fishing boat or net.

I prefer "demons" over "devils", because I think the concept deals more with humans than with Satan or angels. Devils are not angels. Devils are not literal demons either. Devil is just the Greek linguistic diabolos (slanderer). Satan is the only accuser of the brethren.

Actually "daimonia" occurs 32 times. Besides more forms of the word relating to possessions by demons.

Devils don't exist as posited by first century humans, and certainly not referring to angels or those who rebelled back in Adam's lifetime.

Angels were not the "good guys" and devils/demons the "bad guys".

Demons are spirits, not angels. Angels are sometimes referred to as ministering spirits. But only as a reference to them as being messengers of good tidings. Angels by creation standards are the stars in the firmament. Those one third Angels who rebelled walked out on strike. Now there are one third less stars in the sky than there were the week of creation. Jude 1:6 declares they were "immediately" chained in darkness in the pit. They will be loosed at the 5th Trumpet after the Second Coming. So Angels are not the demons/devils in Scripture.

Those demons in Scripture are literal spirits. They are spirits of reprobate humans who have passed the point of being able to be redeemed. Thousands of humans reached that point in the OT period. It is surprising that more demon possession has not started up in recent years, as apostasy has picked up in the church. Most humanity remain neutral, but when the church starts rejecting God, and demanding their own rights and rightness, that is when Romans 1 kicks in. I think Romans 1:18-32 is the recipe that creates demons.
 

EloyCraft

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Angel is an office not the name of a being. The angelic office delivers God's message to those God chooses to know it. Usually fulfilled by the spiritual beings we call angels.
 
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Ziggy

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If you want to associate "devil" by definition with a mythological character, that would be Pan.
I was saying just the opposite brother.
I was saying did Esau's enemies call him a devil and his children.
Not meaning he was a devil, but they called him a dergatory name.

Like the Pharisees called Jesus Beezelbub. They were slandering him.
And Jesus said, if they call me by that name, how much more will they call you?

Because Esau was "rough and hairy" the word in Hebrew "devil" means "rough" and "hairy"

Like calling someone a midget because they are small...
understand what I mean?
Nothing mystical about it.

Hugs
 

Enoch111

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Was the term "devils" slang for the offspring of Esau?
Not really. Devils are in fact demons, and demons are spirit beings. Now were the Edomites influenced by demons? That is more than likely, since they were sworn enemies of Israel.
 

Ziggy

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Not really. Devils are in fact demons, and demons are spirit beings. Now were the Edomites influenced by demons? That is more than likely, since they were sworn enemies of Israel.
Fine, I can't find "demons" in the bible.
I find devil (s) .

STRONGS H8163:
sâʻîyr, saw-eer'; or שָׂעִר sâʻir; from H8175; shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by analogy, a faun:—devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

Whi is this he-goat?
Dan 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Dan 8:6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
Dan 8:7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Dan 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

So the King of Grecia was a devil.
ok
 
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Ziggy

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Those one third Angels who rebelled walked out on strike. Now there are one third less stars in the sky than there were the week of creation.
So how I hear that, is the sons of Korah rebelled against Moses and they fell into a pit.
And their lights don't shine anymore.

That's how I hear it.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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The bible says the angels which did not keep their first estate.
Their position.
So Korah got upset with Moses why?
Because he felt his kinfolk should be able to bare more responsibility in the tabernacle than was given them.
So they weren't happy with the position "estate" they was given, they wanted more.
Moses got mad and told God.
God got mad and made the earth open under their feet and they got swallowed up.
 

Enoch111

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Fine, I can't find "demons" in the bible.
You will find "demons" in the Greek text. While the KJB has translated that as "devils" (because they are devilish) that word can also be translated as "demons".

G1140 δαιμόνιον (daimonion) = devils or demons.

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. the divine power, deity, divinity

  2. a spirit, a being inferior to God, superior to men

  3. evil spirits or the messengers and ministers of the devil
 

Ziggy

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You will find "demons" in the Greek text. While the KJB has translated that as "devils" (because they are devilish) that word can also be translated as "demons".

G1140 δαιμόνιον (daimonion) = devils or demons.

Outline of Biblical Usage
  1. the divine power, deity, divinity

  2. a spirit, a being inferior to God, superior to men

  3. evil spirits or the messengers and ministers of the devil

So devil in the OT refers to an outward appearance, rough, hairy, he-goat..
and devils in the NT refers to a spiritual state of being.

That makes sense seeing the NT is all about seeing beyond the flesh into the very soul.
And what is on the inside eventually manifests itself on the outside.
meaning if you have hate in your heart, that is the origen of where physical murders originate.
I see the OT as the shell, and the NT as the seed inside the shell.
Or shall I say, I see the OT as the chaff.

When you read the OT you have to read it with NT eyes and ears.
You have to look beyond the flesh behavior and get to the root of the matter.
The heart.

Thank you for pointing that out Enoch.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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There's over eighty mentions of demons in the NIV.
I only did a word search for demons in the KJV, I didn't look up the greek translation.
I did look up the Hebrew translation of devil, so I only did half the homework.
Sorry.. C+ ?

:oops:
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Pearl

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I only did a word search for demons in the KJV, I didn't look up the greek translation.
I did look up the Hebrew translation of devil, so I only did half the homework.
Sorry.. C+ ?

:oops:
Hugs
My search was just the NIV - no Greek or any other language.:cool:
 
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Timtofly

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I was saying just the opposite brother.
I was saying did Esau's enemies call him a devil and his children.
Not meaning he was a devil, but they called him a dergatory name.

Like the Pharisees called Jesus Beezelbub. They were slandering him.
And Jesus said, if they call me by that name, how much more will they call you?

Because Esau was "rough and hairy" the word in Hebrew "devil" means "rough" and "hairy"

Like calling someone a midget because they are small...
understand what I mean?
Nothing mystical about it.

Hugs
I never said Esau was a devil. The name Esau does not mean devil. Where in Scripture is calling Esau by derogatory names, even implied?
 

Timtofly

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Fine, I can't find "demons" in the bible.
I find devil (s) .

STRONGS H8163:
sâʻîyr, saw-eer'; or שָׂעִר sâʻir; from H8175; shaggy; as noun, a he-goat; by analogy, a faun:—devil, goat, hairy, kid, rough, satyr.

Whi is this he-goat?
Dan 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Dan 8:6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
Dan 8:7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Dan 8:8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

So the King of Grecia was a devil.
ok
This was Alexander the Great whose kingdom was divided between his 4 Generals.

He-goat does not mean devil.

The Greek word for demon is daimon. In Latin it was daemon. In English the "a" was dropped.

In the OT the word spirit is ruach. However it is determined in context how ruach is used. The same same word is used for breathe and air.
 

Timtofly

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So how I hear that, is the sons of Korah rebelled against Moses and they fell into a pit.
And their lights don't shine anymore.

That's how I hear it.
Hugs
Since Korah was at the time of Moses just after leaving Egypt, that hardly counts as the angels rebelling against God at the time Adam and Eve were still in the Garden of Eden.

I was born in South Carolina. Does that make me a soldier in the Confederate Army?
 

Ziggy

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I never said Esau was a devil. The name Esau does not mean devil. Where in Scripture is calling Esau by derogatory names, even implied?
I know you didn't. I didn't either.
Our communication signals are getting bypassed.
It's ok.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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This was Alexander the Great whose kingdom was divided between his 4 Generals.

He-goat does not mean devil.

The Greek word for demon is daimon. In Latin it was daemon. In English the "a" was dropped.

In the OT the word spirit is ruach. However it is determined in context how ruach is used. The same same word is used for breathe and air.
OK I'm not going to keep re-posting the Hebrew translation of the word devil.
I believe 3 times is plenty.
Hugs
 

Ziggy

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Since Korah was at the time of Moses just after leaving Egypt, that hardly counts as the angels rebelling against God at the time Adam and Eve were still in the Garden of Eden.
And Agar isn't a mountain.
 

Ziggy

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Since Korah was at the time of Moses just after leaving Egypt, that hardly counts as the angels rebelling against God at the time Adam and Eve were still in the Garden of Eden.

I was born in South Carolina. Does that make me a soldier in the Confederate Army?
It's an analogy.

You need to learn to expand your thinking.
I can show you, but I can't make you see.

Everything that happened in the garden is played out, over and over again throughout the entire bible.
Genesis is the Grand overview from beginning to end.
Each consecutive book is that same Genesis only it is in greater detail.
When you come to the book of Revelation that is the Grand overview from beginning to end.
The only difference between Genesis and Revelation is Genesis is of the flesh, while Revelation is of the spirit.

It's the same story, yes the names and places change, but the foundation, the morals, the principles are all the same.
The same pitfalls, the same mistakes, the same successes, played out over and over across many generations.

History repeats itself. You only need to be willing to see it.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Alpha and Omega.. world without end.. eternal life.. forever and ever and ever.

The garden of Eden has always been there. It is still there today. It's called Baghdad, Iraq.
It's the same place Nimrod built the tower of Babel.
It's the same place God calls Zion.
It's the same place Christ was crucified.

Abraham came from the land of Ur. Ur is Babylon. He travelled to Egypt with Sarah and then returned to the promised land.
Isaac found Rebecca in Syria. Right next door to Iraq.
Gen 25:20 And Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife, the daughter of Bethuel the Syrian of Padanaram, the sister to Laban the Syrian.
Paddân, pad-dawn'; from an unused root meaning to extend; a plateau; or פַּדַּן אֲרָם Paddan ʼĂrâm; from the same and H758; the table-land of Aram; Paddan or Paddan-Aram, a region of Syria:—Padan, Padan-aram.

Jacob was living in the land when there was a famine and went down to Egypt. They hung there for 400 years until they were sent back to the promised land.
It's not called the promised land for nothing.
The promised land is the garden of eden.. in the physical landscape of things.

But in the spiritual landscape, The garden of Eden, Paradise, New Jerusalem is in the heart.

Hugs