attacking another denomination are included in this rule.

[dev553344]

I think when the church of God in Christ is the faithful in Christ, should we gather together to worship and commune together, we shall know if the holy spirit is among us by how we teach, and feel in that presence of one another.
Where two or more are gathered, he is there among us also.

Yes I believe that also. I have experienced the Holy Spirit in different churches. So while I'm trying to figure out which church to invest my time in so that it is best spent, I also believe that God is with the members in many different churches. And I think God testifies of himself and is about the glory of God.

But that still doesn't tell me which church has authority like the apostles were given. I have seen and been part of healing also. And I'm not sure God discriminates on a church by church basis as to which he heals.

But I think I want to be part of a church that recognizes itself as sinners and have a strong repentance process. Since I have studied the bible and seen the law of God, to be specific the "Royal Law", which is spelled out in the sheep and goats for more clarity from Christ. James 2:8-13, Matthew 25:31-46. And I think that Royal Law also includes the 10 commandments and all other commandments. I don't see myself as perfect and have some humility towards my state.

Basically I need to be part of a church that regular reminds it's members to encourage them towards doing good and repenting when sinning. Constant reminder of what is good appears to correct my daily navigation.

 

[Blue Dragonfly's]

Yes I believe that also. I have experienced the Holy Spirit in different churches. So while I'm trying to figure out which church to invest my time in so that it is best spent, I also believe that God is with the members in many different churches. And I think God testifies of himself and is about the glory of God.

But that still doesn't tell me which church has authority like the apostles were given. I have seen and been part of healing also. And I'm not sure God discriminates on a church by church basis as to which he heals.

But I think I want to be part of a church that recognizes itself as sinners and have a strong repentance process. Since I have studied the bible and seen the law of God, to be specific the "Royal Law", which is spelled out in the sheep and goats for more clarity from Christ. James 2:8-13, Matthew 25:31-46. And I think that Royal Law also includes the 10 commandments and all other commandments. I don't see myself as perfect and have some humility towards my state.

Basically I need to be part of a church that regular reminds it's members to encourage them towards doing good and repenting when sinning. Constant reminder of what is good appears to correct my daily navigation.

I've found in my walk that when I genuinely feel led to find an answer to something, it turns out it was God who set me on that quest.
And consequently, it always turns out that God leads me to that which was sought.

While on that journey, I learned to pay attention along the way. And I found things I experienced in my past provided me experience and understanding for how to take those steps toward that goal,or answer.

Passages in scripture teaches us about God's guidance, and shares of his timeless wisdom. And I love it when those teachings of old manifest in my present day.
You've heard of ''proof texts''?
It's an amazing thrill to live in the moment of proof of God's ''texts''.
Unmistakable too.

Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.

If you pay/pray attention as you seek what you hope to find in your post there, you'll realize that proverb is very real. And if you're like me, when that manifests and dawns on you that it is God setting your steps from there [the past] to here[the present],it will bring you a huge flood of joy.

You'll find your people/church. I have no doubt.

 

[dev553344]

I've found in my walk that when I genuinely feel led to find an answer to something, it turns out it was God who set me on that quest.
And consequently, it always turns out that God leads me to that which was sought.

While on that journey, I learned to pay attention along the way. And I found things I experienced in my past provided me experience and understanding for how to take those steps toward that goal,or answer.

Passages in scripture teaches us about God's guidance, and shares of his timeless wisdom. And I love it when those teachings of old manifest in my present day.
You've heard of ''proof texts''?
It's an amazing thrill to live in the moment of proof of God's ''texts''.
Unmistakable too.

Proverbs 16:9 The heart of man plans his way, but the LORD establishes his steps.

If you pay/pray attention as you seek what you hope to find in your post there, you'll realize that proverb is very real. And if you're like me, when that manifests and dawns on you that it is God setting your steps from there [the past] to here[the present],it will bring you a huge flood of joy.

You'll find your people/church. I have no doubt.

Thanks for the encouragement. I like that

 

[Brakelite]

It has been mentioned a number of times that it is doctrine we need to critique, and not personal behavior. Yet Jesus at one time said of the Pharisees, that folk should do as they say, (obey their doctrine), but not do as they act (copy their behavior). So I think it is important we give consideration to people's actions also. It is by their actions we judge them hypocrites. For example.
Nowhere within any of the catechisms of the Catholic Church will it say, "Jesus is nothing special. Jesus is just like any other prophet, spiritual leader, or guru". No. You will not find such a statement in any catechism. And most Catholics on this forum will tell us to go to the catechism to confirm their beliefs. And presumably correct our misconceptions regarding their beliefs. However, what if the actions of the Catholic reflect a slightly different perception on what is written in the catechism? What if the catechism is understood by the Catholic as saying one thing, but by someone other than Catholic, as saying another? This paradox I believe can be readily seen in the current Catholic driving of the ecumenical movement, particularly as it pertains to a global tolerance and unification of religions, including Hindu, Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, and even the pantheistic occult tribal faiths of South America and the ancestor worship of tribes elsewhere such as in The Pacific Islands? Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father except by Me". How does such a statement stand up in the face of Pope Francis' goal of unifying the world under one religious authority, namely his? How can that be done without reducing Jesus to the same level as the false gods of the world. Or at best, just another prophet or good man who taught some wonderful spiritual lessons. A type of pre historic Jordan Peterson?

 

[amadeus]

I believe that is true. And also believe that once God has taught us we can do as he has instructed. After studying sin I found that God's commandments were all about showing love and acting in love. And I think once instructed, we can act in the way that we believe it to be.

You may be right, but I would proceed carefully with eyes open. Sometimes being only able to see a single step we act as if we were able to see more than the one step.

 

[dev553344]

You may be right, but I would proceed carefully with eyes open. Sometimes being only able to see a single step we act as if we were able to see more than the one step.

I think relating to Gods direction there is the do and don't do. We can do not engage in sin. And while waiting for Gods direction we can do good works like charity.

 

[Jack]

Only if they truly repent before they die..

That's a fact! Just like the thief on the cross.

 

[Brakelite]

After studying sin I found that God's commandments were all about showing love and acting in love

While predicated on love, God's Commandments also are irrevocably linked to His authority. Anything we claim today as being a commandment of God which may in appearance be loving, is worthless if the authority commanding it is other than God. Even the church issues commandments... One church has even codified doctrine and tradition into what they call 'Canon law'. These, while passed off as commandments of God, may in reality be only expressions of the opinions and interpretations of man. Authority, particularly when it comes to worship, is God's alone. To worship in Spirit and in Truth, is to worship in full harmony with those commandments that are to be obeyed for no other reason than God said. Much of Christianity today, in the manner in which it is expressed and practiced, is not built on the Cornerstone of a "thus sayeth the Lord", but on a "thus sayeth last century's church synod", or "thus sayeth such n such whom we believe was the apostle John's favorite pupil". Authority. Who may we attribute credit for establishing the doctrines we hold dear? Not wanting to derail this thread, (although it is mine and I think I can possibly do what I like with it), but seeing it is humming along quite nicely so far, without being explicit there is one important Christian doctrine that the majority hold as absolute and rarely consider discarding it, but have no real "thus sayeth the Lord" in it's defense, but only "thus sayeth me because that's what I think scripture means". That reasoning removes God's authority, and establishes oneself as an authority over God.

 

[dev553344]

While predicated on love, God's Commandments also are irrevocably linked to His authority. Anything we claim today as being a commandment of God which may in appearance be loving, is worthless if the authority commanding it is other than God. Even the church issues commandments... One church has even codified doctrine and tradition into what they call 'Canon law'. These, while passed off as commandments of God, may in reality be only expressions of the opinions and interpretations of man. Authority, particularly when it comes to worship, is God's alone. To worship in Spirit and in Truth, is to worship in full harmony with those commandments that are to be obeyed for no other reason than God said. Much of Christianity today, in the manner in which it is expressed and practiced, is not built on the Cornerstone of a "thus sayeth the Lord", but on a "thus sayeth last century's church synod", or "thus sayeth such n such whom we believe was the apostle John's favorite pupil". Authority. Who may we attribute credit for establishing the doctrines we hold dear? Not wanting to derail this thread, (although it is mine and I think I can possibly do what I like with it), but seeing it is humming along quite nicely so far, without being explicit there is one important Christian doctrine that the majority hold as absolute and rarely consider discarding it, but have no real "thus sayeth the Lord" in it's defense, but only "thus sayeth me because that's what I think scripture means". That reasoning removes God's authority, and establishes oneself as an authority over God.

I was more referring to the nature of sin being selfishly hurting someone or allowing their suffering when there's something we can do to prevent it, from murder to adultery and stealing, bearing false witness, denying the poor and hungry, etc.

 

[WalkInLight]

When God speaks to me, including that particular vision, I know it is him as he fills me with immense Love, Peace and sometimes Joy that last for hours. They are described in the bible for all to know as the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). Nothing delusional about it. And yes evil loves evil. But I would image it feels very different than the Holy Spirits love does.

This is a good feeling to have. I also have this experience, but it is a feeling all the same, with its limitations.
Mary is an interesting individual in Jesus's life, being His mother. Jesus went out of His way to emphasis all women
in the Kingdom are part of His family, and His mother also if she has faith.

This position is very different from the veneration of Mary as the mother of God. Many years ago I understood this
feeling, being close to my mother while distant from my father. Emotionally it was much easier to relate to a caring
mother figure than a distant potentially angry unknown individual who definitely did not want to be approached.

It is said that our family feelings are the ones we use to approach the Lord.
I now know who Jesus is and His openness, love and care within the constraints of our lives and existence.
He alone is the access to the Father, and Mary is His human mother, though blessed is a follower like all of us.

So within this context, and all the writings of the apostles, how is Mary the special access to Jesus in Heaven?
Jesus intercedes before the Father on our behalf, why do we need anything more?

 

[WalkInLight]

While predicated on love, God's Commandments also are irrevocably linked to His authority. Anything we claim today as being a commandment of God which may in appearance be loving, is worthless if the authority commanding it is other than God. Even the church issues commandments... One church has even codified doctrine and tradition into what they call 'Canon law'. These, while passed off as commandments of God, may in reality be only expressions of the opinions and interpretations of man. Authority, particularly when it comes to worship, is God's alone. To worship in Spirit and in Truth, is to worship in full harmony with those commandments that are to be obeyed for no other reason than God said. Much of Christianity today, in the manner in which it is expressed and practiced, is not built on the Cornerstone of a "thus sayeth the Lord", but on a "thus sayeth last century's church synod", or "thus sayeth such n such whom we believe was the apostle John's favorite pupil". Authority. Who may we attribute credit for establishing the doctrines we hold dear? Not wanting to derail this thread, (although it is mine and I think I can possibly do what I like with it), but seeing it is humming along quite nicely so far, without being explicit there is one important Christian doctrine that the majority hold as absolute and rarely consider discarding it, but have no real "thus sayeth the Lord" in it's defense, but only "thus sayeth me because that's what I think scripture means". That reasoning removes God's authority, and establishes oneself as an authority over God.

I agree with what you have expressed. I would add though something Jesus said about the Kingdom of heaven.
It is like a seed that grows into a massive tree. I see as in the parable of the seed and the sower, the fruit of the people
of God are Gods words in living form spread to others.

The essence is Gods love working through His peoples lives. The words spoken are equally as meaningful as scripture, as
they are scripture in action. As scripture is very flexible in how it is interpreted, so are our lives Gods work from eternity
to eternity.

Years ago I used to wonder how scripture could contradict itself. Hate your family, honour your parents, hate sinners, love
the righteous. In an absolute verbal sense these isolated statements of facts do not make sense. But we all know emotions
have contexts, are balanced and co-exist. I hate my husbands ...... , how he ...... , I love my husband. We could say the same
about friends, brothers and sisters both spiritual and family. We know context and feeling are everything.

I have come to see many who follow Christian ceremonies and traditions, have not met Jesus, though everything would seem
to shout they are believers. Jesus put it simply as thorns and thistles from someone, or grapes and figs. I know a counsellor who
was helping a believer who knew how they should behave, and made sure they did behave like this, but what they really felt or
wanted was something else. They believed this was faith, rather than this was pretend and not being sorted out.

Jesus sorting our hearts out takes time, love, support, care, trust, faithfulness, patience. Whatever denomination or background
the straight path has always been the same. Seeing the light from within as Jesus works, rather than the doctrines and structure
without is key to finding ones way through.

God bless you

 

[Grailhunter]

Honestly, I have my doubts. I think God guided me to this point in my life. And I have yet to determine which church is most correct. And I think it will take God's guidance to discover that. I'm still lost I think as far as a church. But my doctrine is good and becoming better.

The fact that you seek the truth is a merit to your character.
But don't make the mistake of looking for perfection in any church.
Part of the truth is that all of them have some truth, but no church or denomination is perfect.
This is one of the reasons I am multi-denominational....I will kneel with the Catholics and prey and I will stand and sing praises to the Lord with the Southern Baptists and Methodists. I will gather with the congregation of a Holy Ghost church and anoint someone with oil.
Look for the love of God....the enthusiasm in the praise and worship and a joyful fellowship.

 

[Brakelite]

I was more referring to the nature of sin being selfishly hurting someone or allowing their suffering when there's something we can do to prevent it, from murder to adultery and stealing, bearing false witness, denying the poor and hungry, etc.

Let me ask a question. Here's the commandments that all Christians agree on, although not all agree they are obliged to obey them, believe it or not.
KJV Exodus 20:1-7, 12-17
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Ask yourself as you read through them... If these were given you and you knew nothing more of scripture, from the words presented, how would you know who the God is that has presented this law? In other words, who is the Lawgiver?

 

[Pathfinder7]

the mistake of looking for perfection in any church.

Good point..
---
I remember.. the men's breakfast meeting..many years ago.
- One fellow shared..his spiritual journey story.
He said..
- "I learned..there is no perfect church, I could not find one!"

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Leaving aside personal sentiments, it is constructive to ask: "What saith the Scriptures?"

Huh…?? You wanna bring the scriptures into it??

 

[Dropship]

PS- Hamlet's uncle murdered the king and seized his throne, but later found he wasn't able to pray because he wasn't repentant enough, realising that "My words fly up but my thoughts remain below".

 

[dev553344]

This is a good feeling to have. I also have this experience, but it is a feeling all the same, with its limitations.
Mary is an interesting individual in Jesus's life, being His mother. Jesus went out of His way to emphasis all women
in the Kingdom are part of His family, and His mother also if she has faith.

This position is very different from the veneration of Mary as the mother of God. Many years ago I understood this
feeling, being close to my mother while distant from my father. Emotionally it was much easier to relate to a caring
mother figure than a distant potentially angry unknown individual who definitely did not want to be approached.

It is said that our family feelings are the ones we use to approach the Lord.
I now know who Jesus is and His openness, love and care within the constraints of our lives and existence.
He alone is the access to the Father, and Mary is His human mother, though blessed is a follower like all of us.

So within this context, and all the writings of the apostles, how is Mary the special access to Jesus in Heaven?
Jesus intercedes before the Father on our behalf, why do we need anything more?

Well I think asking me is probably not a good idea as I don't understand it either. Perhaps a Catholic or something could answer that question.

 

[dev553344]

Let me ask a question. Here's the commandments that all Christians agree on, although not all agree they are obliged to obey them, believe it or not.
KJV Exodus 20:1-7, 12-17
1 And God spake all these words, saying,
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

Ask yourself as you read through them... If these were given you and you knew nothing more of scripture, from the words presented, how would you know who the God is that has presented this law? In other words, who is the Lawgiver?

Not really sure. I think we don't really get to know God until we've read and studied all of scripture. Or felt his Holy Spirit perhaps.

 

[Brakelite]

Not really sure. I think we don't really get to know God until we've read and studied all of scripture. Or felt his Holy Spirit perhaps.

Do you know of any earthly law that isn't signed and sealed by the one in authority who either wrote it or authorized it? But at the very least, someone in authority signs off to legitimize it's validity right?
Surely God's law would be no different... And it wasn't. Include the 4th Commandment and what do we find?
KJV Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Therein is the seal/signature of the Lawgiver. His name... His title... His kingdom. The church however has removed the 4th Commandment 7th day Sabbath as it is written, and changed it to the first day, a day not sanctioned or authorized anywhere in scripture by God. The church has removed the identity of the Lawgiver from the very law He Himself presented to the world. And most churches approve by supporting and honoring the unauthorized day that boasts of no other justification than the tradition of man and the unauthorized demand that the church observes and obeys it.

 

[dev553344]

Do you know of any earthly law that isn't signed and sealed by the one in authority who either wrote it or authorized it? But at the very least, someone in authority signs off to legitimize it's validity right?
Surely God's law would be no different... And it wasn't. Include the 4th Commandment and what do we find?
KJV Exodus 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Therein is the seal/signature of the Lawgiver. His name... His title... His kingdom. The church however has removed the 4th Commandment 7th day Sabbath as it is written, and changed it to the first day, a day not sanctioned or authorized anywhere in scripture by God. The church has removed the identity of the Lawgiver from the very law He Himself presented to the world. And most churches approve by supporting and honoring the unauthorized day that boasts of no other justification than the tradition of man and the unauthorized demand that the church observes and obeys it.

I see your point. And yes God gave us the commandments. And he is the only God that exists.

I also know that as children of the fall, and partakers of the tree of knowledge of good and evil that we know when we are doing something wrong, something evil that is sin. And it can actually hurt us to sin. We fall, and as the scriptures point out we die spiritually. And perhaps part of that is God's correction in the spirit to guide us away from sin. He compels us to do good.

I'm not sure about other people, but I think I know if what I'm doing is godly as then I am blessed with the fruits of the spirit (Galatians 5:22-25). And I also know the spirit of evil that can influence people when they do evil. They have a very different feeling in the soul. For me God is a pleasant feeling or feelings, while the devil and sin has a relatively unpleasant experience and feeling.

So I think God controls these laws, it's not necessarily the scriptures that speak of God and his commandments. But it is written into our hearts.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.