Banned !

[GodsGrace]

aren't they where we get our checklist of Things To Do to 'get saved,' etc, our 'doctrines,' our definitions, etc?

We get that from churches that looked at different theologians and then chose which ones they liked.
John Wesley for instance. He began the Methodist church, not the theologians he agreed with.

 

[bbyrd009]

I always want to know more, also because I had to teach it.
Well, not HAD to, I volunteered -- but still had to know.

ha see 'had to know' just sets one up for misunderstanding; one who has to know something is going to go get an answer, see. Doesn't necessarily matter if it is truth or ot. i don't have to know anymore, for most of those Qs

 

[bbyrd009]

When there's a conflict about something, I always go to what Jesus said, not to what Paul said. I believe that's the correct thing to do.

Paul never disagrees with Christ, not anywhere imo; he is just on a diff mission in the Book

 

[GodsGrace]

ha see 'had to know' just sets one up for misunderstanding; one who has to know something is going to go get an answer, see. Doesn't necessarily matter if it is truth or ot. i don't have to know anymore, for most of those Qs

How will you know the answer when you're asked the question from a searching unbeliever??

 

[bbyrd009]

Some churches.
But not all.
You can't make a general statement like that..it won't be correct.

well, and you can't institute a grace-filled church either lol. i've seen it more than once. you can try, and you will get waves of grace, but waves of legalism too, new members attracted by the grace will morph the congregation with their...influence, just by being there, some new guy comes in, heavy tither, and wants something done diff, etc, all manner of things. Not saying there can't be graceful ppl there, but the image we have in our minds of a body working together in harmony makes a useful contrast to what we actually usually see practised, right. In a church imo the whole point is to set up dualities so ppl can learn from them. Seems terrible, serves God's will, see. imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

We get that from churches that looked at different theologians and then chose which ones they liked.
John Wesley for instance. He began the Methodist church, not the theologians he agreed with.

ya, and i mean look what the Methodists accomplished lol, yikes

 

[bbyrd009]

How will you know the answer when you're asked the question from a searching unbeliever??

what question do you know has only one answer?
yes, but the devil is in the details, "God" is always the answer lol
so, a perspective is all i can ever provide, that 'knowing' stuff is for chumps

 

[GodsGrace]

well, and you can't institute a grace-filled church either lol. i've seen it more than once. you can try, and you will get waves of grace, but waves of legalism too, new members attracted by the grace will morph the congregation with their...influence, just by being there, some new guy comes in, heavy tither, and wants something done diff, etc, all manner of things. Not saying there can't be graceful ppl there, but the image we have in our minds of a body working together in harmony makes a useful contrast to what we actually usually see practised, right. In a church imo the whole point is to set up dualities so ppl can learn from them. Seems terrible, serves God's will, see. imo.

I've worked (?) in a couple of churches. I know what you're talking about. Maybe the CC is good in this respect. It's so big and has so many members that you could tune out.

Plus, I meant that the preacher/pastor/ priest is NOT a wolf.
We're derailing our own conversation...There's no such thing as a perfect church... (small c)

 

[GodsGrace]

what question do you know has only one answer?
yes, but the devil is in the details, "God" is always the answer lol
so, a perspective is all i can ever provide, that 'knowing' stuff is for chumps

What if someone asked you what it means that Jesus died for you?
I've known persons that don't know what this means.
How do you explain it if you don't know anything??

 

[GodsGrace]

ya, and i mean look what the Methodists accomplished lol, yikes

The Nazarene church spun off the Methodist.
I like it. It's good.

 

[bbyrd009]

Plus, I meant that the preacher/pastor/ priest is NOT a wolf.

yes, and i meant that in a real sense they are, mostly bc we all are. They are just ppl too, they are still changing too, who joined religion bc it seemed like the best idea at the time, too

 

[bbyrd009]

There's no such thing as a perfect church... (small c)

i agree where bldgs are concerned ya, but imo someone completely in the moment, acting from the body selflessly, is pretty perfect i guess

 

[GodsGrace]

yes, and i meant that in a real sense they are, mostly bc we all are. They are just ppl too, they are still changing too, who joined religion bc it seemed like the best idea at the time, too

This would mean you can't trust anybody!
Not even the translators of the bible.
That's not perfect either.
So what to do?
Does God speak to you?

 

[bbyrd009]

What if someone asked you what it means that Jesus died for you?
I've known persons that don't know what this means.
How do you explain it if you don't know anything??

ha well various ways in the various stages of my walk i guess, right. Tbh it is those who say they know what that means scare me lol. Coming to Christ is not a comfortable thing, that we run to joyfully. It does get a little easier, but really it doesn't get any easier, it gets harder. the more forgiveness you start manifesting, the more you are going to be called into like hairier situations to blow them up, and they are just somewhat easier bc you know what to expect, which is that anything could happen, right, yor forgiveness might cause understanding to bloom later, but in the moment you are usually pissing someone with an agenda off, or showing someone with an ego up, etc.

my best friend is a negrophobe, so last night at the party i invited all the black people when he and i went out back to have a smoke, just to mess him up, etc

so, that's how i explain it

 

[bbyrd009]

This would mean you can't trust anybody!
Not even the translators of the bible.

ah, what's your point?

lol, im oyou can frame it like that if you want, but i don't think trust should even be the frame, it's more like you trust ppl to tell you what they believe is true, but you shouldn't ever trust anyone to tell you truth, bc that assumes they knew it in the first place, which they didn't. All you can ever get from a person is a perspective. i've been asking for anyone to state a single 'truth' other than God for a year now, see, no takers yet

 

[bbyrd009]

That's not perfect either.

ha well so you say, but then we are an opinionated and obstinate collection of cells lol, who knows iow

 

[bbyrd009]

So what to do?

ask, seek, knock. here a little, there a little, i guess
learn how/when to do nothing; the hardest thing

 

[bbyrd009]

Does God speak to you?

yes, i have heard the Word 'audibly' like twice in my life, quite a few mores times as a bare whisper;
but i would assert that God speaks to everyone, when they listen and take even a step toward Him

 

[Helen]

i dunno mjr, study to show yourself approved unto God, don't study and show yourself false imo.

I added the bit you left off..= approved "unto God."

Studying the book , is for us, so that we can see all that God has done for us through Jesus..which makes us approved of, by God.
So may times it is us who need convincing...
It is false humility which hangs it's head and says: " I am so unworthy etc"
Was, yes, but not now...that is like saying to Jesus..."Thanks, but oh dear, I am still so unworthy.."
He paid a high price for us to be able to say:- "He hath said, so we can boldly say..."

We come boldly to the throne of grace..we do not hang our head...God wants us to know what our true identity in Him.

Let him who hath an ear to hear...hear!

 

[bbyrd009]

God wants us to know what our true identity in Him.

i note a lot of flopping around by believers after they first profess, wondering what "God" wants them to do. Of course they are already doing it, but this is often not sufficient for us, who yearn on such an elemental level to create. Without a vision, ppl perish. And the vision does not have to be realized, i guess, or even particularly pious sounding, or even officially approved or sanctified. Just communicated, imo