Did Christ instruct His Apostles to pray to His earthly mother? Or was that the Apostles’ idea? Are you sure that God doesn't count the deification of Mary as goddess worship to some degree? What do you think of the confessions that Christianity incorporated paganism into its rituals and ceremonies? Where do you draw the line when the State religion suddenly becomes Christian and you want all the pagans to feel comfortable in your church? Do you plunder illegal pagan temples of statues of goddesses and try to persuade pagans that the goddesses that they worshipped before are actually images of Mary?
Did Christ instruct His Apostles to pray to His earthly mother?
- Thread starter Zog Has-fallen
- Start date
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Born_Again
Well-Known Member
I personally feel I don't have to pray to Mary or the Saints. It is written, "No one comes to the Lord except through me". I shouldn't have to ask someone else to put in a good word for me. I can come to Christ directly without intercession. I do not discount what Mary did but I do not pray to her to have a chat with Jesus about me. I go to Him directly.
No, we are not to pray to Mary or any dead person. Jesus is our only intercessor between the Father and humanity. Jesus is alive and active, and we only pray to Him.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, anyone who practices divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or a sorcerer or a charmer or a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead.
Why would he? His mother was still alive and, like the apostles, didn't fully understand Him.Zog Has-fallen said:
Quit worrying about what the RCC teaches and look to your own self to make your calling and election sure.
As we're all saints by scripture, and we all pray and ask for prayer from each other; I don't see any reasons against the practice.
What I do see is that few pray that it be the will of God done.
What I do see is that few pray that it be the will of God done.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
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Christ's sheep don't request intercession from Jesus' mom because the spirit
of God's son is a barrier to that kind of behavior.
†. Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.
Abba is an Aramaic word that means, among other things, dad, daddy, pop,
papa, padre, dada, or father, et al. Abba isn't a formal title; but rather, pretty
much informal because it's a filial vocative. What I mean is; when I'm out
in the garage working and my son and his mother are in the kitchen talking
about me, the noun "dad" is just who I am to my boy. But when he wants to
get my attention by calling out: Dad! Where are you? Then dad becomes a
vocative.
In other words: when the spirit of His son wants God's attention, he calls out
Abba! But after he has God's attention, he stops using Abba because it isn't
necessary to use a vocative while someone is actively listening to you.
Anyway; what it boils down to is this: the spirit of His son always compels
Christ's sheep to call out to a father, never to a mother and the reason for
that is actually quite simple. Christ never prays to a mother; but always to a
father; hence those inhabited by his spirit will do the very same thing.
That, by the way, is a pretty good litmus test. If somebody is comfortable
praying to Jesus' mom, then that's pretty good evidence that they are not
inhabited by the spirit of God's son; which means of course that they have
not yet undergone adoption into His home.
†. Rom 8:15-17 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to
fear; but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father. The Spirit itself testifies to our spirit, that we are God's kin.
The pronouns "you" and "we" and "our' in that passage are of course
restricted to people who have been given the spirit of His son. Obviously
then; those who don't have it, are quite christless; and in grave danger of
the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.
==========================================
Christ's sheep don't request intercession from Jesus' mom because the spirit
of God's son is a barrier to that kind of behavior.
†. Gal 4:6 . . And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of His
son into your hearts calling out: Abba! Father.
Abba is an Aramaic word that means, among other things, dad, daddy, pop,
papa, padre, dada, or father, et al. Abba isn't a formal title; but rather, pretty
much informal because it's a filial vocative. What I mean is; when I'm out
in the garage working and my son and his mother are in the kitchen talking
about me, the noun "dad" is just who I am to my boy. But when he wants to
get my attention by calling out: Dad! Where are you? Then dad becomes a
vocative.
In other words: when the spirit of His son wants God's attention, he calls out
Abba! But after he has God's attention, he stops using Abba because it isn't
necessary to use a vocative while someone is actively listening to you.
Anyway; what it boils down to is this: the spirit of His son always compels
Christ's sheep to call out to a father, never to a mother and the reason for
that is actually quite simple. Christ never prays to a mother; but always to a
father; hence those inhabited by his spirit will do the very same thing.
That, by the way, is a pretty good litmus test. If somebody is comfortable
praying to Jesus' mom, then that's pretty good evidence that they are not
inhabited by the spirit of God's son; which means of course that they have
not yet undergone adoption into His home.
†. Rom 8:15-17 . . For you have not received a spirit of bondage again to
fear; but you have received a spirit of adoption, whereby we call out: Abba!
Father. The Spirit itself testifies to our spirit, that we are God's kin.
The pronouns "you" and "we" and "our' in that passage are of course
restricted to people who have been given the spirit of His son. Obviously
then; those who don't have it, are quite christless; and in grave danger of
the lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15.
†. Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.
==========================================
so you believe Mary can pray for you??? Is it the will of God that Mary pray for you ???pom2014 said:
Well that would depend upon which one believes happens after death to a believer.
Some say after death they immediately go to heaven. Others say they sleep until called.
Myself I'm in the latter camp and don't believe dead people can do anything for you unless they have donated body parts.
But if you're part of the former group then Mary is "putting in a good word for you".
As any saint then could.
Some say after death they immediately go to heaven. Others say they sleep until called.
Myself I'm in the latter camp and don't believe dead people can do anything for you unless they have donated body parts.
But if you're part of the former group then Mary is "putting in a good word for you".
As any saint then could.
I don't see how it would depend on what one believes .....it depends on what the truth is...Mary cannot pray for anyone.....pom2014 said:
All whom are faithful followers are saints.
Saints can pray for others if they are conscious.
So the ability to pray depends on their ability to consciously do it.
My assertion stands dependent on if dead saints are in heaven or asleep in sheol.
Saints can pray for others if they are conscious.
So the ability to pray depends on their ability to consciously do it.
My assertion stands dependent on if dead saints are in heaven or asleep in sheol.
it does not matter where you are ...what matters is you cannot do anything when you are dead....pom2014 said:
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
How does that taken out of context verse enforce your assertion that the dead are incapable of any prayer IF they are already in heaven.
Now if they sleep until called, without doubt, they can not pray.
But if you'd care to show me scripture that says without doubt that the dead either can't pray or even can pray please post it.
I really do not know of any scripture with in the Canon that says the dead can do it specifically. But you show me one that says they can't at all and I'll acquiesce.
Now if they sleep until called, without doubt, they can not pray.
But if you'd care to show me scripture that says without doubt that the dead either can't pray or even can pray please post it.
I really do not know of any scripture with in the Canon that says the dead can do it specifically. But you show me one that says they can't at all and I'll acquiesce.
Common sense should tell you ...if after death is judgement ....then you cannot change anything after death...else we can all live carefree and when we die then pray to fix everything....which is what Jesus was explaining in the parable with the rich man and Lazarus....unless you think dead men can repent...pom2014 said:
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Ok let me get this straight. You assertion in the way you interpret Hebrews 9:27 that history is already finished and that when a person dies then immediate we jump ahead to the white throne judgmentnewbirth said:
in Revelation?
So really all of our lives are mere illusions as the end of the world has already happened we just have not seen it yet because of a temporal distortion?
And IF there is there is this distortion, then freewill is moot. As all of our actions, including accepting grace or not accepting, was already done?
I am not sure what you mean by your statement...the scripture says what it says...after death is judgement...are you saying you can change things after you die???pom2014 said:
scripture does not say we jump to anything......we have an appointment to die and appointment for judgement....we do not know the day we will die ..(unless one is condemned to die by the hands of local authorities).....we do not know when is the day of judgement...
Then during the time between death and judgement what happens?newbirth said:
If you are like me, when you die you sleep until you are called for the White Throne Judgment. So in effect you cannot be dead and pray for others.
But if you are like some that believe that would automatically go to Heaven upon death and due to grace are accepted into Heaven, you would be conscious of what is going on and COULD pray for those still left until their
day of death or until the White Throne Judgment.
So you see it really depends on what version of how after death you ascribe to.
Ecclesiastes 9:5pom2014 said:
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Luke 16:24-29
what does the scripture say???? is there a resurrection of the dead???pom2014 said:
Acts 24:14-16King James Version (KJV)
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.
16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void to offence toward God, and toward men.
those who believe different does not mean they get what they believe....
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Educated Catholics do not worship Mary; just like educated evangelicals do not worship the Bible.
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