How should the church service be structured

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Randy Kluth

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Marksman and I have been looking into the value (or not) of the structure of the typical church service, in which a central leader delivers a sermon. I'm hesitant to dismiss the pastor, the sermon, and most of the churches in America and across the world. But I do take seriously the point marksman raised, that sermons are often weak. And I do think there could be important changes made in the structure of the service, to make ministry more efficient.

If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. Or, if you have an experience that may contribute to understanding the good or bad in this, please speak up!

I've had a long and varied experience in church, but of course, I'm limited by my own upbringing and experience. My own experience with the traditional sermon has not been that good on many occasion. But I don't wish to place the blame on pastors, who have simply been raised up and taught by a system that placed too much weight on them as an individual. See Exodus 18:25.

As I said elsewhere, as the main paid minister in a church, the pastor is expected to do the business of the church as well as provide the ministry of the word. This kind of administration is more than what I see the Bible as specifying. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit gives a diversity of gifts as He wishes.

So let me know what you think?
 

CharismaticLady

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Marksman and I have been looking into the value (or not) of the structure of the typical church service, in which a central leader delivers a sermon. I'm hesitant to dismiss the pastor, the sermon, and most of the churches in America and across the world. But I do take seriously the point marksman raised, that sermons are often weak. And I do think there could be important changes made in the structure of the service, to make ministry more efficient.

If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. Or, if you have an experience that may contribute to understanding the good or bad in this, please speak up!

I've had a long and varied experience in church, but of course, I'm limited by my own upbringing and experience. My own experience with the traditional sermon has not been that good on many occasion. But I don't wish to place the blame on pastors, who have simply been raised up and taught by a system that placed too much weight on them as an individual. See Exodus 18:25.

As I said elsewhere, as the main paid minister in a church, the pastor is expected to do the business of the church as well as provide the ministry of the word. This kind of administration is more than what I see the Bible as specifying. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit gives a diversity of gifts as He wishes.

So let me know what you think?

The service should be lead by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.
 

CharismaticLady

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Justin Martyr describes Christian worship (c.150 AD)
from chapters 61-67 of Justin’s First Apology

Weekly worship of the Christians
And we afterwards continually remind each other of these things. And the wealthy among us help the needy; and we always keep together; and for all things wherewith we are supplied, we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.

Christian Baptism
I will also relate the manner in which we dedicated ourselves to God when we had been made new through Christ; lest, if we omit this, we seem to be unfair in the explanation we are making. As many as are persuaded and believe that what we teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, are instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we praying and fasting with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, “Except ye be born again, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Now, that it is impossible for those who have once been born to enter into their mothers’ wombs, is manifest to all. And how those who have sinned and repent shall escape their sins, is declared by Esaias the prophet, as I wrote above; he thus speaks: “Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from your souls; learn to do well; judge the fatherless, and plead for the widow: and come and let us reason together, saith the Lord. And though your sins be as scarlet, I will make them white like wool; and though they be as crimson, I will make them white as snow. But if ye refuse and rebel, the sword shall devour you: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.”

And for this rite we have learned from the apostles this reason. Since at our birth we were born without our own knowledge or choice, by our parents coming together, and were brought up in bad habits and wicked training; in order that we may not remain the children of necessity and of ignorance, but may become the children of choice and knowledge, and may obtain in the water the remission of sins formerly committed, there is pronounced over him who chooses to be born again, and has repented of his sins, the name of God the Father and Lord of the universe; he who leads to the layer the person that is to be washed calling him by this name alone. For no one can utter the name of the ineffable God; and if any one dare to say that there is a name, he raves with a hopeless madness. And this washing is called illumination, because they who learn these things are illuminated in their understandings. And in the name of Jesus Christ, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and in the name of the Holy Ghost, who through the prophets foretold all things about Jesus, he who is illuminated is washed.

Its imitation by demons
And the devils, indeed, having heard this washing published by the prophet, instigated those who enter their temples, and are about to approach them with libations and burnt-offerings, also to sprinkle themselves; and they cause them also to wash themselves entirely, as they depart from the sacrifice, before they enter into the shrines in which their images are set. And the command, too, given by the priests to those who enter and worship in the temples, that they take off their shoes, the devils, learning what happened to the above-mentioned prophet Moses, have given in imitation of these things. For at that juncture, when Moses was ordered to go down into Egypt and lead out the people of the Israelites who were there, and while he was tending the flocks of his maternal uncle in the land of Arabia, our Christ conversed with him under the appearance of fire from a bush, and said, “Put off thy shoes, and draw near and hear.” And he, when he had put off his shoes and drawn near, heard that he was to go down into Egypt and lead out the people of the Israelites there; and he received mighty power from Christ, who spoke to him in the appearance of fire, and went down and led out the people, having done great and marvellous things; which, if you desire to know, you will learn them accurately from his writings.
 

CharismaticLady

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Baptism and the consecration of the Eucharist
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized illuminated person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to genoito so be it. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.

The Eucharist
And this food is called among us Eucharist, of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.
 
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Philip James

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From the Didache circa 70 AD

1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
2. But let none who has a quarrel with his fellow join in your meeting until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice be not defiled.
3. For this is that which was spoken by the Lord, "In every place and time offer me a pure sacrifice, for I am a great king," saith the Lord, "and my name is wonderful among the heathen."


Peace!
 

Agios

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It's methodical, every single church a person attends, it's the same thing, nothing is bad in itself, music, sermon, music. How did it become having a pastor, who is a shepherd, taking on all the roles? Any given church could have 1,000's of members but only 1 teacher? What the teacher teaches is kind of set in stone, right? There is no room for discussion, another viewpoint, only given what is planned for that Sunday. A deterrent for the Spirit to work.

Also, I have heard instances where gifts are not being utilized the way they should, these are suppressed in order to do man's programs.
 

Randy Kluth

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The service should be lead by the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 14:
26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. 28 But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others judge. 30 But if anything is revealed to another who sits by, let the first keep silent. 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged. 32 And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. 33 For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Short and sweet. In sum, yes! :)
 
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Randy Kluth

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It's methodical, every single church a person attends, it's the same thing, nothing is bad in itself, music, sermon, music. How did it become having a pastor, who is a shepherd, taking on all the roles? Any given church could have 1,000's of members but only 1 teacher? What the teacher teaches is kind of set in stone, right? There is no room for discussion, another viewpoint, only given what is planned for that Sunday. A deterrent for the Spirit to work.

Also, I have heard instances where gifts are not being utilized the way they should, these are suppressed in order to do man's programs.

Spoken right out of heart! I've just arranged to meet with my pastor this Friday on this very subject! :)
 
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Jane_Doe22

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Marksman and I have been looking into the value (or not) of the structure of the typical church service, in which a central leader delivers a sermon. I'm hesitant to dismiss the pastor, the sermon, and most of the churches in America and across the world. But I do take seriously the point marksman raised, that sermons are often weak. And I do think there could be important changes made in the structure of the service, to make ministry more efficient.

If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. Or, if you have an experience that may contribute to understanding the good or bad in this, please speak up!

I've had a long and varied experience in church, but of course, I'm limited by my own upbringing and experience. My own experience with the traditional sermon has not been that good on many occasion. But I don't wish to place the blame on pastors, who have simply been raised up and taught by a system that placed too much weight on them as an individual. See Exodus 18:25.

As I said elsewhere, as the main paid minister in a church, the pastor is expected to do the business of the church as well as provide the ministry of the word. This kind of administration is more than what I see the Bible as specifying. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit gives a diversity of gifts as He wishes.

So let me know what you think?
My church does things differently than your standard Protestant one.

-Nobody is paid. All positions are filled with volunteers that have regular day jobs. Positions switch around frequently (roughly 1-5 years).

-There is no central sermon. Rather there's ~3 mini-sermons (~10 mins) by different members of the congregation every week, including youth. The downside of this is that folks are seldom professional-grade public speakers/theologians. The upside is fellowship: hearing practical examples of people practicing their faith in regular life.

All in all, it really encourages owning your own faith and being a part of a community. You speak from the pulpit occasionally, you teach Sunday School, you share your experiences, and you hear how "Bob" sitting next to you is doing likewise.
 

farouk

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It's methodical, every single church a person attends, it's the same thing, nothing is bad in itself, music, sermon, music. How did it become having a pastor, who is a shepherd, taking on all the roles? Any given church could have 1,000's of members but only 1 teacher? What the teacher teaches is kind of set in stone, right? There is no room for discussion, another viewpoint, only given what is planned for that Sunday. A deterrent for the Spirit to work.

Also, I have heard instances where gifts are not being utilized the way they should, these are suppressed in order to do man's programs.
Acts 2.42 is a good basic guide to local church activities.
 

Randy Kluth

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My church does things differently than your standard Protestant one.

-Nobody is paid. All positions are filled with volunteers that have regular day jobs. Positions switch around frequently (roughly 1-5 years).

-There is no central sermon. Rather there's ~3 mini-sermons (~10 mins) by different members of the congregation every week, including youth. The downside of this is that folks are seldom professional-grade public speakers/theologians. The upside is fellowship: hearing practical examples of people practicing their faith in regular life.

All in all, it really encourages owning your own faith and being a part of a community. You speak from the pulpit occasionally, you teach Sunday School, you share your experiences, and you hear how "Bob" sitting next to you is doing likewise.

I really like this. In the past I've brought up ideas like this, and the pastor found a way to shut it down. For example, I once felt inspired to go to the pastor and ask him if members of the congregation could, each Sunday, share if God had laid a small message on them during the week.

The pastor, to his credit, tried it. He may have thought it would be a dud, but immediately someone got up who had never been involved before and said he oddly felt led to share. And then another and another, if I remember correctly.

We did this next week also, and the same result. However, a subtle shift began to take place. The pastor started asking for *testimonies,* instead of for *messages* from the Lord. And gradually, it fell into "testimony time," which is fine, except that elders were no longer being encouraged to share a vision or a truth. Gradually, the practice was no longer followed--testimonials can become overloaded and burdensome. I let it go.

In the church I attend today I've shared the same thing, and it falls on deaf ears. Since I'm neither pastor nor on the board it's up to others to initiate changes. I'm not one to impose my way, though I can be very tenacious in declaring what I believe.

So my last pastor never put my plan into action. As a result, few participate in the ministry of the word. And few learn to speak Christian for themselves, outlining their spiritual path, and learning to give their testimony. I think that's sad.

I strongly believe that converts to the Christian faith need to learn to speak their testimony, and to teach the word of God, and to share their testimony. Otherwise they will become mutes!

On the other hand, there are competent elders in a church, who are equal to the task of ministering the word of God as much as the pastor--perhaps even more so! If we are to have "several prophesy," as Paul indicated, then we have to make opportunity for this. And there is a diversity of ways in which the Holy Spirit wishes to minister.

Unfortunately, things get messy the more people get involved. There is the danger of people getting radical with their own ideas, promoting bad doctrines and practices, and taking up too much time with personal matters. The pastor's work gets harder, and he gravitates away from this.

But I think it's work well worth doing, if we all want to grow. Thanks for your comments! :)
 
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farouk

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I really like this. In the past I've brought up ideas like this, and the pastor found a way to shut it down. For example, I once felt inspired to go to the pastor and ask him if members of the congregation could, each Sunday, share if God had laid a small message on them during the week.

The pastor, to his credit, tried it. He may have thought it would be a dud, but immediately someone got up who had never been involved before and said he oddly felt led to share. And then another and another, if I remember correctly.

We did this next week also, and the same result. However, a subtle shift began to take place. The pastor started asking for *testimonies,* instead of for *messages* from the Lord. And gradually, it fell into "testimony time," which is fine, except that elders were no longer being encouraged to share a vision or a truth. Gradually, the practiced was no longer followed--testimonials can become overloaded and burdensome. I let it go.

I strongly believe that converts to the Christian faith learn to speak their testimony, and to teach the word of God, and to share their testimony. Otherwise they will become mutes!

On the other hand, there are competent elders in a church, who are equal to the task of ministering the word of God as much as the pastor--perhaps even moreso! If we are to have "several prophecy," as Paul indicated, then we have to make opportunity for this.

Unfortunately, things get messy the more people get involved. There is the danger of people getting radical with their own ideas, promoting bad doctrines and practices, and taking up too much time with personal matters. The pastor's work gets harder, and he gravitates away from this.

But I think it's work well worth doing, if we all want to grow. Thanks for your comments! :)

In the present church I've shared the same thing, and it falls on deaf ears. Since I'm neither pastor nor on the board it's up to others to initiate changes. I'm not one to impose my way, though I can be very tenacious in declaring what I believe.

Well, they never put it into action. As a result, few participate in the ministry of the word. And few learn to speak Christian for themselves, outlining their spiritual path, and learning to give their testimony. I think that's sad.
Acts 2.42 is a good guide; it seems that the activities were collective, and simply about one man doing everything.
 
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marks

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Marksman and I have been looking into the value (or not) of the structure of the typical church service, in which a central leader delivers a sermon. I'm hesitant to dismiss the pastor, the sermon, and most of the churches in America and across the world. But I do take seriously the point marksman raised, that sermons are often weak. And I do think there could be important changes made in the structure of the service, to make ministry more efficient.

If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them. Or, if you have an experience that may contribute to understanding the good or bad in this, please speak up!

I've had a long and varied experience in church, but of course, I'm limited by my own upbringing and experience. My own experience with the traditional sermon has not been that good on many occasion. But I don't wish to place the blame on pastors, who have simply been raised up and taught by a system that placed too much weight on them as an individual. See Exodus 18:25.

As I said elsewhere, as the main paid minister in a church, the pastor is expected to do the business of the church as well as provide the ministry of the word. This kind of administration is more than what I see the Bible as specifying. The Bible says that the Holy Spirit gives a diversity of gifts as He wishes.

So let me know what you think?

Hi Randy,

Here are some thoughts . . .

The first church was a megachurch, with upwards of 8 or 10,000 meeting daily at the temple. The first gentile church in Antioch was also a megachurch, with Paul and others teaching regularly for a year I think.

In the church I fellowship, we give the pastor a salary so he doesn't have to divide his attention. But he doesn't do the administrative stuff. We have other paid staff and volunteers that take care of all that.

As far at the strength of the sermon, I think that most meaningful thing we can do is pray, before, during.

I feel that we benefit from various different styles of meetings. I want to sing then be taught for awhile. But I also want the small group where we discuss the Scriptures together, and take time for everyone to share their gifts. So the home Bible studies, potluck, all that, very meaningful.

I think every church is different, and every group of people have unique needs.

I think the CEO style of church, a "senior pastor", isn't what God has in mind, instead, a group of elders all equal, no "senior". All sharing in teaching and preaching.

I like a formal teaching setting, to be able hear an in-depth teaching without interruption. And outside of that, I think the more people who are involved in things the better, only as the Lord leads.

Much love!
 
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Jane_Doe22

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I really like this. In the past I've brought up ideas like this, and the pastor found a way to shut it down. For example, I once felt inspired to go to the pastor and ask him if members of the congregation could, each Sunday, share if God had laid a small message on them during the week.

The pastor, to his credit, tried it. He may have thought it would be a dud, but immediately someone got up who had never been involved before and said he oddly felt led to share. And then another and another, if I remember correctly.

We did this next week also, and the same result. However, a subtle shift began to take place. The pastor started asking for *testimonies,* instead of for *messages* from the Lord. And gradually, it fell into "testimony time," which is fine, except that elders were no longer being encouraged to share a vision or a truth. Gradually, the practice was no longer followed--testimonials can become overloaded and burdensome. I let it go.
That's odd. Testimonies are wonderful. I wonder what was going on here.
I strongly believe that converts to the Christian faith need to learn to speak their testimony, and to teach the word of God, and to share their testimony. Otherwise they will become mutes!
AMEN!!!
Unfortunately, things get messy the more people get involved. There is the danger of people getting radical with their own ideas, promoting bad doctrines and practices, and taking up too much time with personal matters. The pastor's work gets harder, and he gravitates away from this.
There is that human tendency of making things travel-logs or going off on tangents.
Combating it is a matter of culture, reminding people frequently, and at points downright forgiving people whom mess up.
 
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Jane_Doe22

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I really like this. In the past I've brought up ideas like this, and the pastor found a way to shut it down. For example, I once felt inspired to go to the pastor and ask him if members of the congregation could, each Sunday, share if God had laid a small message on them during the week.

The pastor, to his credit, tried it. He may have thought it would be a dud, but immediately someone got up who had never been involved before and said he oddly felt led to share. And then another and another, if I remember correctly.

We did this next week also, and the same result. However, a subtle shift began to take place. The pastor started asking for *testimonies,* instead of for *messages* from the Lord. And gradually, it fell into "testimony time," which is fine, except that elders were no longer being encouraged to share a vision or a truth. Gradually, the practice was no longer followed--testimonials can become overloaded and burdensome. I let it go.

In the church I attend today I've shared the same thing, and it falls on deaf ears. Since I'm neither pastor nor on the board it's up to others to initiate changes. I'm not one to impose my way, though I can be very tenacious in declaring what I believe.

So my last pastor never put my plan into action. As a result, few participate in the ministry of the word. And few learn to speak Christian for themselves, outlining their spiritual path, and learning to give their testimony. I think that's sad.

I strongly believe that converts to the Christian faith need to learn to speak their testimony, and to teach the word of God, and to share their testimony. Otherwise they will become mutes!

On the other hand, there are competent elders in a church, who are equal to the task of ministering the word of God as much as the pastor--perhaps even more so! If we are to have "several prophesy," as Paul indicated, then we have to make opportunity for this. And there is a diversity of ways in which the Holy Spirit wishes to minister.

Unfortunately, things get messy the more people get involved. There is the danger of people getting radical with their own ideas, promoting bad doctrines and practices, and taking up too much time with personal matters. The pastor's work gets harder, and he gravitates away from this.

But I think it's work well worth doing, if we all want to grow. Thanks for your comments! :)
Another point to add:
If people are coming from a background where they're used to "church" being defined as showing up for an hour on Sunday for an hour for a rock concert and a charismatic public speaker, and that's the end, then.... well my church's style of doing things is a major culture shock kick in the pants. Yes, it is a LOT more time & energy investment, but I personally think it's really really worth it.
 

Philip James

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Any given church could have 1,000's of members but only 1 teacher?

Hello Agios,

There can be many presbyters but only one bishop for any particular church.

Here's Ignatius of Antioch discussing this (to the Smyrneans)

'[But] shun divisions, as the beginning of evils.
Do ye all follow your bishop, as Jesus Christ followed
the Father, and the presbytery as the Apostles; and to
the deacons pay respect, as to God's commandment. Let
no man do aught of things pertaining to the Church
apart from the bishop. Let that be held a valid
eucharist which is under the bishop or one to whom he
shall have committed it.'


Peace be with you!
 
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Hidden In Him

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testimonials can become overloaded and burdensome.

You forgot long-winded.

Excellent
thread! And this right here is going to distinguish the end-time church from what we have now.
In the church I attend today I've shared the same thing, and it falls on deaf ears. Since I'm neither pastor nor on the board it's up to others to initiate changes. I'm not one to impose my way, though I can be very tenacious in declaring what I believe.

So my last pastor never put my plan into action.

What pastors are up against here is the natural result of allowing the congregation to actually discuss doctrines and beliefs in an informal service. Only a matter of time before a battle is going to erupt, and a serious dispute will then ensue, potentially dividing people into camps. But that's just it. The New Testament church did NOT simply throw out the baby with the bathwater to make things "safe." They were to let the Spirit of peace arbitrate among them (Colossians 3:15) in the midst of ministering one another (Colossians 3:16). The problem, however, is that if you do not have people who will allow the Spirit to govern them, the result will be that they give themselves over to strife, and this in turn quenches the Spirit among them (Ephesians 4:25-32).

But people must be free to speak what the Spirit of God gives them so they can contribute to the edification of the body. This is what Paul was after in teaching that even the most uncomely of our members will be granted great honor (1 Corinthians 12:21-25). Everyone is to be used by the Spirit of God, from the youngest to the oldest (Joel 2:28), so that no one is left out. All can and should be allowed to give utterance, teaching, psalm, prophecy, revelation, as the Spirit leads. Prophecy, dreams, visions, and the rest of spiritual gifts will be the hallmark of the end-time church.

One last note: In congregations where the Spirit does not arbitrate among the members, this leaves the leaders - those most led by the Spirit and having the most spiritual authority - to intervene and keep the peace by force, i.e. through correction and rebuke if necessary. This is where you need strong, well-educated, Spirit-led and Spirit-empowered leadership, who will keep the Spirit on the throne of a congregation where He belongs, and not allow things to be given over to the enemy.
 
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marks

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There is that human tendency of making things travel-logs or going off on tangents.
Combating it is a matter of culture, reminding people frequently, and at points downright forgiving people whom mess up.
Discipling people into a spiritual life is the remedy here I think.

People talk about what's in their heart. So we need to focus on the heavenly, and then we will speak more of heavenly things.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,581
21,692
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is that human tendency of making things travel-logs or going off on tangents.
Combating it is a matter of culture, reminding people frequently, and at points downright forgiving people whom mess up.
Discipling people into a spiritual life is the remedy here I think.

People talk about what's in their heart. So we need to focus on the heavenly, and then we will speak more of heavenly things.