Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

[Willie T]

A preacher I know likes to say... "We don't 'have to'.... we 'get to.' "

 

[Earburner]

Entering into Christ is by faith acting in love. And this is because He first loved us. You may just have an obsession with the law of Moses.

Nope not me! However, I am cautious of those, such as yourself, who are not aware that they have been made to be sin-less before the Father, through faith in the blood of Christ.

 

[APAK]

Once we are in Christ for salvation, born-again or converted, the ‘work’ one does if it to be called work, is to cooperate with the will of the Spirit in the process of continual sanctification.

As we do this as a genuine outpouring of our hearts – we open or expose ourselves more and more to the Spirit, and in turn, it embeds itself deeper and deeper into our minds and thus our hearts. We become as the Spirit – in this case of Christ. We become more and more in a state of sinlessness as we distance ourselves from all physical entanglements, including our own flesh. We are being perfected.

This work of cooperation in holiness is really our obedience to the highest commandment; love-focus on the Father with all our minds, hearts and our beings.

As we are in Christ and he also in us, via the spirit of the truth, and we focus on the Father, we walk or abide in Christ and in turn, continually get closer to Christ – his character and spirit.

We do this work because the Spirit in us works it into us FIRST, keeps leading and ‘knocking’– to the goal of perfection in the Spirit via Christ.

This has nothing to do with the imperfect Law and its works to gain salvation.

We sin at times and cannot escape that fact in this flesh, although we are considered sinless in the eyes of the Father. And we can sin less, with a closer walk with Christ… full circle….

Blessings,

APAK

 

[marks]

Yes! Through Christ, I am made to be "sin-less" before the Father.
In my flesh, this body of death, I am not ever "sin-free".
Therefore, in this life, I am "sin-less", but not "sin-free".
However, when Jesus soon returns in flaming fire,
I will be both!!

Hi Earburner,

This reminds me of . . .

Galatians 5
14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

It seems to me that what is and isn't the Law is really a moot point to us, as we simply are to love others, and that fulfills everything. We can try to parse out what that "everything" is, or we can just enjoy our walk in Christ.

But what I really was thinking about is the recognition that as long as we are in these corrupted bodies, our flesh, it has it's desires which war against us.

As we walk in the Spirit, we don't fulfill those desires, just the same, well, I think that the NLT has the right idea in saying, " . . . an your choices are never free from this conflict".

But it is in these desires of the flesh, and the mind of the flesh, that we find the temptations/testings through which God causes our new nature in the mind of Christ to learn to overwhelm the old nature in the mind of the flesh.

I think I just quoted this one yesterday:

Philippians 3
20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

We live in the heavenly realm, only we don't see it right now, so we have to walk by faith.

2 Peter 1:4 "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

All that remains is to convince each of us that this is true. Who the Son sets free is free indeed!

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes! Through Christ, I am made to be "sin-less" before the Father.
In my flesh, this body of death, I am not ever "sin-free".
Therefore, in this life, I am "sin-less", but not "sin-free".
However, when Jesus soon returns in flaming fire,
I will be both!!

So even if you murdered someone, you are sin-less?

John 8:32-36

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But, you still seem to be advocating that we are now required to work hard enough — do those things you mentioned, well enough — to earn "approval" of the Salvation I think we already have.

The work has to be done. But not by our carnal flesh, but by the Spirit of God who empowers us. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me."

 

[Davy]

So even if you murdered someone, you are sin-less?

John 8:32-36

32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

That's the problem with the so-called Grace Movement. It preaches Christ crucified, but doesn't admonish the believer to repent of future sins as we are admonished to do per 1 John 1, and as our Lord Jesus showed Luke 11 in how we are to pray, still asking forgiveness of our tresspasses.

The wise Christian should immediately realize something is wrong when they teach that once you have believed on Jesus and been baptized, that you can never sin anymore.

 

[CharismaticLady]

That's the problem with the so-called Grace Movement. It preaches Christ crucified, but doesn't admonish the believer to repent of future sins as we are admonished to do per 1 John 1, and as our Lord Jesus showed Luke 11 in how we are to pray, still asking forgiveness of our tresspasses.

The wise Christian should immediately realize something is wrong when they teach that once you have believed on Jesus and been baptized, that you can never sin anymore.

I'm glad you said "trespasses." What 1 John 3:9 actually means is a Christian can no longer commit sins of lawlessness (1 John 3:4). That is the real context of that passage 1 John 3:3-9. But a Christian is still able to commit trespasses, though can grow out of them. Do you know the difference? What is a trespass?

 

[Earburner]

So even if you murdered someone, you are sin-less?

John 8:32-36
32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Which sin, that is common to men, is worse or better than another?
Theft? Covetousness? Adultery? Sabbath breaking, etc.? Or how about lusting after another for sex?
So yes, even Murder is forgivable by God, when confessed under the Blood of Christ.
Does that shock you? It should, because then you will really learn to know what John 8:36 really means!
By faith in Christ's blood we are forgiven 100%, at all times, in all situations.
.
Yes! We ARE free indeed, even to sin! Now how's that for a shocker?
Do we habitually sin in that capacity to the extreme?
No! If the Holy Spirit is dwelling within us, we are constrained by his inward presence, and therefore from within, curbs our propensity to sin to the uttermost.

 

[CharismaticLady]

We ARE free indeed, even to sin! Now how's that for a shocker?

Yes, I'm shocked that you would believe such nonsense.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, I'm shocked that you would believe such nonsense.

Then you haven't learned the Lord's truth about
KJV- Mat. 5:19-20.
So then, how is it that the least and the great are
In the KoG together?
Most of you don't know!
But the answer is plainly stated in Mat. 5:20.

 

[Earburner]

So then, who here is sin-free because of Christ?
Hmmm...None!
.
Ok now, who here is sin-less because of Christ?
Hmmm...I hope you all said: "I am".

 

[Nondenom40]

That's the problem with the so-called Grace Movement. It preaches Christ crucified, but doesn't admonish the believer to repent of future sins as we are admonished to do per 1 John 1, and as our Lord Jesus showed Luke 11 in how we are to pray, still asking forgiveness of our tresspasses.

How do you repent of 'future sins.'? Just curious.

The wise Christian should immediately realize something is wrong when they teach that once you have believed on Jesus and been baptized, that you can never sin anymore.

I don't know anyone that believes this. Are those people really out there that believe they never sin again?

 

[Nondenom40]

hello all...a question for you: Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture? Or is it "too new to be true"? What do you think? This seems to be the province of evangelicals at Dallas Theological Seminary & the A.G. church. This thinking has spread into a hundred books about the Rapture and Armageddon. So how about it? I am trying to gather opinions. For my opinion, see the you tube videos at: J.D. Kethley Ministries
Take a look. They are all short & informative, and more are coming.

In all my years of bible study i can honestly say i've never uttered those words or studied that way. I think the best way to study scripture is what Paul told Timothy in 2 Tim 2:15 "Study...." its the first word depending on your translation. There is a lot packed into that one little word though. If our study compliments the bible i think we are on a good track. If our study does harm to the text or contradicts the text then we need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[Helen]

So then, who here is sin-free because of Christ?
Hmmm...None!
.
Ok now, who here is sin-less because of Christ?
Hmmm...I hope you all said: "I am".

Yes indeed!

Now if that could be truly grasped by everyone.

One wonders why people wish to 'hang-on' to sin as they do. And cannot see that although our natural walk is not perfect...we slip and fall, ..spiritually we are sin-less because of the victory of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

The term seems to have taken on a meaning that I am sure I don't even know.

My first idea was that it meant "first the Jew then the Greek" (first Israel proper and then all the other people). Which I thought...Well, duh, two folds of Christ, two dispensations, of course! Too bad it's not that simple, it should be. But apparently there is more religiosity and the teachings of men to it than that.

Good luck!

 

[Helen]

You can convince yourself that almost anything is valid. The trick is NOT to just read proponents of any particular doctrine. Read the people teaching the opposite, and at least know you are considering several things.

Such wisdom Willie.
I read you short punchy posts and always wish I had said that.

 

[Helen]

There is also a huge difference between Dispensationalism and Hyper- or Ultra-Dispensationalism, which genders false doctrines.

Would it be off topic to ask the difference?
I know nothing.
I actually hate any labels , so I wouldn't know the difference.

As far as I know, I am not an 'anything'.
But maybe, unknowingly I am!

 

[Willie T]

Such wisdom Willie.
I read you short punchy posts and always wish I had said that.

Thank you. I have been actively engaged in ongoing psychiatric group facilitation on a directly personal confrontational basis since my early 20's, so it kind of rubs off on you over the years.

 

[charity]

'Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2 Timothy 2:15)

Hello there,

'Hyper-dispensationalist,' is the man-made epithet given to such learned men of God as, Dr E.W. Bullinger and Mr. Charles H. Welch, by their critics. It was not self-chosen, or ever adopted by them however.

I, like @"ByGrace," never thought of myself as being 'anything', until I was attacked repeatedly by someone on a forum many moons ago, and called a 'Dispensationalist' disparagingly. I had been using the principle of 2 Timothy 2:15, and that of the Berean's of Acts 13; and had read the works of both men named above, and was grateful for their teaching.

Looking up online what dispensationalists were, I realised that I came under the same category as that of the two admirable men mentioned in my opening sentence: that I was, in the eyes of man, a 'hyper-dispensationalist'.

I do not accept the term, for it is not one that God has given to me. However, I an honoured to share the condemnation of such men as those mentioned, for I know them to be humble, God-honouring individuals, whose chief purpose was to know God, and to honour His Word.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris