SPIRITUAL iSREAL, THE BIG lIE!
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Romans 9:6 "It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel."blessedhope said:
So this means there is more to being an Israelite than one's lineage. What do you think it is that qualifies some and not others?
Answer: Faith that ties back to Father Abraham.
Isn't Faith a spiritual thing?
Faith that ties back to Father Abraham.
No> we Live in the age of grace they had faith but no grace. Enjoy
No> we Live in the age of grace they had faith but no grace. Enjoy
I will have do some threads. many people are lost and no understanding at all about bible prophecy on this form.
- Aug 10, 2012
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Your terse response is contrary to Romans 9:6.blessedhope said:
Obviously if lineage was the only requirement for being an Israelite the scripture would be false. Since that isn't the case it is you who are wrong about this reply at the least.
Is the Church Israel? For if it is, we are obligated to keep Sabbath day at least in a general sense. If the Church is not Israel then what sense would there be to keep the Sabbath. In the Scripture we find the Church is not Israel the nation, but a separate entity under an entirely new covenant. Israel is called the wife of Jehovah in the Old Testament, while the Church is called the bride of Christ in the New Testament. This shows distinctions in how God relates to each, and how each group is related to God. The word Israel is always descriptive of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was Jacob whose name was changed to Israel and had 12 sons that became the nation of Israel. It is the physical posterity of Jacob that is Israel, this is what makes one Jewish.
Many transfer the promises and the covenants of Israel to the Church, but there is absolutely no reason to do this. The Church is not spiritual Israel. Look up this phrase; you’ll never find the term or concept in the Bible. There are only two verses that are used to validate this view, both are unsupported when they are read in their full context.
There was no Church in the Old Testament because there was no incarnation, no revelation of the Son, nor his sacrifice that broke down the middle wall of partition that separated the Jews from the Gentiles (Eph.2:14). For the Church is made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles, not so for Israel.
Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob, who is Israel. They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham one of which is the Arabs, they do not share in the promises of Jacob. Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob. God had specially promised to Israel salvation and the believing Jews received it through the gospel. But Paul explains that not all the natural descendants of Jacob were embraced in this “Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Rom. 2:28, 29). The seed which is Israel is from Jacob and the apostle and other writers make a clear distinction between this and Abraham’s seed.
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel” ( Rom. 10:16). They have not all responded to God’s call to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. This is foretold by Isaiah, who is quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:27; that only a remnant of the natural descendants of Jacob would obtain the salvation of God. “Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the remnant hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:7).
Gal. 3:7 “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." Being a son of Abraham does not make one a Jew, being a son of Jacob does, so a gentile can be a son of Abraham. But Jew’s are a son of Abraham and of Jacob.
Many transfer the promises and the covenants of Israel to the Church, but there is absolutely no reason to do this. The Church is not spiritual Israel. Look up this phrase; you’ll never find the term or concept in the Bible. There are only two verses that are used to validate this view, both are unsupported when they are read in their full context.
There was no Church in the Old Testament because there was no incarnation, no revelation of the Son, nor his sacrifice that broke down the middle wall of partition that separated the Jews from the Gentiles (Eph.2:14). For the Church is made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles, not so for Israel.
Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob, who is Israel. They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham one of which is the Arabs, they do not share in the promises of Jacob. Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob. God had specially promised to Israel salvation and the believing Jews received it through the gospel. But Paul explains that not all the natural descendants of Jacob were embraced in this “Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Rom. 2:28, 29). The seed which is Israel is from Jacob and the apostle and other writers make a clear distinction between this and Abraham’s seed.
“But they have not all obeyed the gospel” ( Rom. 10:16). They have not all responded to God’s call to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. This is foretold by Isaiah, who is quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:27; that only a remnant of the natural descendants of Jacob would obtain the salvation of God. “Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the remnant hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:7).
Gal. 3:7 “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." Being a son of Abraham does not make one a Jew, being a son of Jacob does, so a gentile can be a son of Abraham. But Jew’s are a son of Abraham and of Jacob.
As Paul stated in Rom. 4:11-16, the children of Abraham, are those who have the faith of Abraham, whether by their natural birth they were Jews or Gentiles. This is detailed in Galatians 3 and 4; Gal. 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual brethren in the body of Christ.” The apostle says, to Gentile believers: “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29). So those who accept the Gospel both Jews and Gentiles are of Abraham's seed, but only those who are physically Israel are from Jacobs seed.
The other verse is Gal.6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church “As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon “the Israel of God.” This can be made clear by the preceding verses v.12-13 where Paul is tackling the topic of circumcision and the Jews influence to have the gentiles circumcised. He then tells us the mandatory rite of the Abrahamic covenant is not applicable to the believer but it is the cross that is necessary to make a new creation. In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizer's were teaching that the law was needed also. Those (Jews) who obey this are the Israel of God (the remnant). Paul also addresses this in Rom.9:6-8 that there are two Israel's, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Gal.6. As Paul states, “ for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Rom.9:6). There is also “Israel” after the flesh found in 1 Cor.10:18. The Church is never called spiritual Israel or is a new Israel replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant. as Eph. 2 addresses the middle wall of partition being broken down and God making a new entity. The church is neither Jew or Gentile but consists of both. The two put together make one “new man,” a third entity that is not Israel nor gentile. The word Israel is used 73 times in the New Testament, not once is it used for the Church.
Romans 2:28-29, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.” Notice that the whole chapter is addressing the Jews. Within Paul’s theme of the book of Romans he addresses mankind that can be outlined in 3 portions. The whole world is under condemnation of sin1:18-3:30; then he addresses the Gentiles 1:18-2:16; He addresses the Jews 2:17-3:20.
According to Paul’s specific aim in this portion of the letter, not all the descendants from Jacob are Israel; as he states on 9:6 “They are not all Israel who are Israel.” Not all who are named Jews are truly Jews, the true Israel of God (the Jews) are those who believe in the Messiah. Rom.2:17- 20 starts with the greater responsibility the Jews have. He points to the law that was not given to the Gentiles but the nation of Israel, and they have the responsibility of knowing God.
It never says anything about a gentile being a spiritual Jew but is explaining that one is really Jewish not by the keeping of the law, but having a born again experience and following the Messiah. Paul is directing the teaching of the promised new covenant specifically to the Jews who believe, although the Gentiles are included. Paul is not teaching Gentiles become spiritual Jews but not all Jews are true Jews. There are Jews who believe and the Jews who are in unbelief. Just as it is put in other areas of a remnant among Israel, the true believers and a non-remnant, believing Israel as the Israel of God.
A believing Gentile becomes a spiritual son of Abraham which is an inheritor of the spiritual blessings God promised to the Jews, they are grafted into the covenant he made with Israel. The two have different paths to walk one will be raptured the other will walk through the fire of Jacobs troubles.
The other verse is Gal.6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church “As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon “the Israel of God.” This can be made clear by the preceding verses v.12-13 where Paul is tackling the topic of circumcision and the Jews influence to have the gentiles circumcised. He then tells us the mandatory rite of the Abrahamic covenant is not applicable to the believer but it is the cross that is necessary to make a new creation. In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizer's were teaching that the law was needed also. Those (Jews) who obey this are the Israel of God (the remnant). Paul also addresses this in Rom.9:6-8 that there are two Israel's, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Gal.6. As Paul states, “ for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Rom.9:6). There is also “Israel” after the flesh found in 1 Cor.10:18. The Church is never called spiritual Israel or is a new Israel replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant. as Eph. 2 addresses the middle wall of partition being broken down and God making a new entity. The church is neither Jew or Gentile but consists of both. The two put together make one “new man,” a third entity that is not Israel nor gentile. The word Israel is used 73 times in the New Testament, not once is it used for the Church.
Romans 2:28-29, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.” Notice that the whole chapter is addressing the Jews. Within Paul’s theme of the book of Romans he addresses mankind that can be outlined in 3 portions. The whole world is under condemnation of sin1:18-3:30; then he addresses the Gentiles 1:18-2:16; He addresses the Jews 2:17-3:20.
According to Paul’s specific aim in this portion of the letter, not all the descendants from Jacob are Israel; as he states on 9:6 “They are not all Israel who are Israel.” Not all who are named Jews are truly Jews, the true Israel of God (the Jews) are those who believe in the Messiah. Rom.2:17- 20 starts with the greater responsibility the Jews have. He points to the law that was not given to the Gentiles but the nation of Israel, and they have the responsibility of knowing God.
It never says anything about a gentile being a spiritual Jew but is explaining that one is really Jewish not by the keeping of the law, but having a born again experience and following the Messiah. Paul is directing the teaching of the promised new covenant specifically to the Jews who believe, although the Gentiles are included. Paul is not teaching Gentiles become spiritual Jews but not all Jews are true Jews. There are Jews who believe and the Jews who are in unbelief. Just as it is put in other areas of a remnant among Israel, the true believers and a non-remnant, believing Israel as the Israel of God.
A believing Gentile becomes a spiritual son of Abraham which is an inheritor of the spiritual blessings God promised to the Jews, they are grafted into the covenant he made with Israel. The two have different paths to walk one will be raptured the other will walk through the fire of Jacobs troubles.
This brings us to replacement theology
[SIZE=10pt]Knox Theological Seminary[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], in a statement posted in 2002, stated that the promise of Abraham was not made to a particular ethnic group, but to the Church of Jesus Christ. That means that the promise God made to Abraham, concerning his lineage and eternal promises to the Jewish nation, was not essentially a promise made to his descendants (The Jews), but now applies to the Church, which replaced the Jews as God’s chosen people. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This doctrinal position was signed by hundreds of evangelical pastors and leaders, representing hundreds of protestant denominations. And it is quite common within [/SIZE][SIZE=13.33px]Protestantism,[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] where the pastor goes, so goes most of the flock.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Both Preterism and Replacement Theology deny the literal, futurist method of interpreting prophetic scripture; therefore it was not a difficult challenge to influence millions of professing Christians in hundreds of protestant denominations to embrace these false doctrines, because the prophecies concerning the Middle East in the last days had not yet begun.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This is significant because anyone who is currently keeping up with the pace of events in the Middle East should immediately question the integrity and validity of replacement theology.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Knox Theological Seminary[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt], in a statement posted in 2002, stated that the promise of Abraham was not made to a particular ethnic group, but to the Church of Jesus Christ. That means that the promise God made to Abraham, concerning his lineage and eternal promises to the Jewish nation, was not essentially a promise made to his descendants (The Jews), but now applies to the Church, which replaced the Jews as God’s chosen people. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This doctrinal position was signed by hundreds of evangelical pastors and leaders, representing hundreds of protestant denominations. And it is quite common within [/SIZE][SIZE=13.33px]Protestantism,[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] where the pastor goes, so goes most of the flock.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Both Preterism and Replacement Theology deny the literal, futurist method of interpreting prophetic scripture; therefore it was not a difficult challenge to influence millions of professing Christians in hundreds of protestant denominations to embrace these false doctrines, because the prophecies concerning the Middle East in the last days had not yet begun.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]This is significant because anyone who is currently keeping up with the pace of events in the Middle East should immediately question the integrity and validity of replacement theology.[/SIZE]
There is the inheritance of the promise by birthright in the flesh in the case of the Children of Israel (Jacob) and there is the inheritance by birthright by grace through faith that is the same faith as Abraham’s faith, and that birth is of the Spirit in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ. If you remember Jesus states plainly that Abraham knew of Him. Hence ingrafted, adopted into that faith and it’s blessings and inheritance.
But the fulfillment in Christ in this case, is the showing of by Abraham Isaac and Jacob. If you are born of the Spirit of God then you are a child of. Hence Jacob’s name changed to Israel that had 12 sons, and God refers to the Israelites in the dessert as the Children of Israel. Hence Father, Son who was offered by the Father, and the Jacob (Israel). Therefore one can see there is a Israel in and of the flesh and there is a fulfillment foretold in the flesh by the Lord God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob that is Spirit that some can refer to as a Israel, God’s people. Just as He says in the completion of all things relevant to this age:
Rev:21:3: And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4: And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5: And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6: And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fulfillment in Christ in this case, is the showing of by Abraham Isaac and Jacob. If you are born of the Spirit of God then you are a child of. Hence Jacob’s name changed to Israel that had 12 sons, and God refers to the Israelites in the dessert as the Children of Israel. Hence Father, Son who was offered by the Father, and the Jacob (Israel). Therefore one can see there is a Israel in and of the flesh and there is a fulfillment foretold in the flesh by the Lord God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob that is Spirit that some can refer to as a Israel, God’s people. Just as He says in the completion of all things relevant to this age:
Rev:21:3: And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4: And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5: And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6: And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7: He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
A sensible comment, thanks.DPMartin said:
The Apostle Paul makes it clear as to who are true Israelites. Romans 9:6 Not all the offspring of Israel [Jacob] are true Israelites.
Ephesians 2:11-18....you may be gentiles by birth....separated from God...without hope....Now, because you believe in Jesus and keep His Commandments, you are brought near and thrugh Him we all have access to the Father, in one Spirit.
So the truth is; all true believers are deemed as Israelites. Which is not the 'Church' as such, but individual believers.
The other truth, God's plan to exile first the Northern ten tribes to Assyria, then 135 years later the 2 tribes of Judah and Benjamin to Babylon, remains a fact. Some of Judah returned in 715 BC only to be exiled again in 135 AD and then return in 1948, fulfilling the budding of the fig tree. The final re- joining as per Ezekiel 37 is yet to happen.
true believers are deemed as Israelites> NO> there you go again you are saying your spiritual Israel!. there is no such thing!
We are the church and only the church {The Bride Of Christ} Israel is Israel there is no such thing as the church being spiritual anything. Only people that believe in the theology of replacement believe this kind of thing because they have to twist the bible for their own evil lusts!
Some Gentiles have forgotten that God hasn't called Israel to become spiritual Gentiles, but has called everyone to become spiritual Israelites! They've forgotten that ISRAEL IS THE HOLY ROOT to which they've become attached! Paul warned them: "Boast not against the branches. But if you boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee" (Rom. 11:18).
They forget that the Church is CONVERTED ISRAEL that embraces righteous Gentiles. They've ignored the biblical principle of DUALITY. That there's the physical and there's the spiritual, and that both have their ordained place! Satan is the one who would love to spiritualize Israel away into oblivion! He wants God to break His promises to physical Israel and let them die in a spiritual holocaust!
However, God refuses to forget His physical people Israel and His holy purpose for them! "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee" (Isa. 49:14-15,Jer. 31:20).
We're supposed to ENCOURAGE ISRAEL TO REMEMBER THEIR ROOTS AND JUDAH HIS RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD, not discourage them! Nevertheless, God remembers them and places His special protective seal upon 144,000 Israelites before the Day of the Lord (Rev. 7:4), and purposely names the 12 gates of the New Jerusalem after the 12 Tribes! (Rev. 21:12). This ought to prove that Israel remains first and foremost in God's Mind! (Zech. 2:8). After all, salvation is to the Jew first and then to the Gentile (Acts 3:26; Rom. 1:16).
Paul addresses the nonsense of those who would belittle Israel by asking, "Has God cast away his people? GOD FORBID!" He goes on to show that God has always graciously preserved an ISRAELITE REMNANT, a "holy lump," even when He permitted the majority of Israel to go astray so that He could meanwhile recruit Gentiles (Rom. 11:1,5,16).
Those who preach the polluted propaganda of replacement theology would say physical Israel doesn't matter any more, but Paul clearly fought against such damnable lies! He also reminded his Gentile audience that it's the Israelites who were given everything from the Land Covenant to the Law (Rom. 9:4-5).
Those who preach Satan's lies against Israel had better read and believe and take warning! God says, despite Israel's horrible sins, "I WILL NOT CAST THEM AWAY, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their [physical] ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD" (Lev. 26:44-45).
They forget that the Church is CONVERTED ISRAEL that embraces righteous Gentiles. They've ignored the biblical principle of DUALITY. That there's the physical and there's the spiritual, and that both have their ordained place! Satan is the one who would love to spiritualize Israel away into oblivion! He wants God to break His promises to physical Israel and let them die in a spiritual holocaust!
However, God refuses to forget His physical people Israel and His holy purpose for them! "Can a woman forget her sucking child, that she should not have compassion on the son of her womb? Yea, they may forget, yet will I not forget thee" (Isa. 49:14-15,Jer. 31:20).
We're supposed to ENCOURAGE ISRAEL TO REMEMBER THEIR ROOTS AND JUDAH HIS RESPONSIBILITY BEFORE GOD, not discourage them! Nevertheless, God remembers them and places His special protective seal upon 144,000 Israelites before the Day of the Lord (Rev. 7:4), and purposely names the 12 gates of the New Jerusalem after the 12 Tribes! (Rev. 21:12). This ought to prove that Israel remains first and foremost in God's Mind! (Zech. 2:8). After all, salvation is to the Jew first and then to the Gentile (Acts 3:26; Rom. 1:16).
Paul addresses the nonsense of those who would belittle Israel by asking, "Has God cast away his people? GOD FORBID!" He goes on to show that God has always graciously preserved an ISRAELITE REMNANT, a "holy lump," even when He permitted the majority of Israel to go astray so that He could meanwhile recruit Gentiles (Rom. 11:1,5,16).
Those who preach the polluted propaganda of replacement theology would say physical Israel doesn't matter any more, but Paul clearly fought against such damnable lies! He also reminded his Gentile audience that it's the Israelites who were given everything from the Land Covenant to the Law (Rom. 9:4-5).
Those who preach Satan's lies against Israel had better read and believe and take warning! God says, despite Israel's horrible sins, "I WILL NOT CAST THEM AWAY, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God. But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their [physical] ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD" (Lev. 26:44-45).
Keras
Thanks, if I may, what is the date of the first year of Darius the Mede? According to secular, it’s 539 BC what is the school of thought on that with Christian scholars? I don’t seem to find good info by googling. Reason for asking if Judah returns to the land of Israel in 715 BC and Daniel was still in the 70 yr exile, correct? So Judah couldn’t have returned in 715 if the secular is correct. So something is a miss, or the two schools of thinking don’t agree.
Thanks, if I may, what is the date of the first year of Darius the Mede? According to secular, it’s 539 BC what is the school of thought on that with Christian scholars? I don’t seem to find good info by googling. Reason for asking if Judah returns to the land of Israel in 715 BC and Daniel was still in the 70 yr exile, correct? So Judah couldn’t have returned in 715 if the secular is correct. So something is a miss, or the two schools of thinking don’t agree.
keras
Writer of Bible study guides
DPM, I am no historical scholar. I just took the known date of the Babylon conquest; 785/6 BC and deducted 70 years, as decreed for their return.
Blessedhope, your unpleasant comments about replacement theology do not apply to me. I do not espouse that idea.
No, what I promote is that the Christian peoples, from every nation are mainly, in fact, descendants of those Israelites whom God scattered among the nations.
So God's mystery is this: Amos 9:9 I shall shake Israel among all the nations, as a sieve is shaken to and fro, but not one will be lost.
Therefore God's promises to the Patriarchs will be fulfilled, their descendants will occupy all of the Holy Land.
[SIZE=medium]Identifying the Tribes of Israel [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It is God’s plan that the House of Judah, i.e. the Jews, remain as an identifiable people group to fulfil the tasks assigned to them. In these present days, one task has been to replant and rebuild the Land. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But the 10 Northern tribes, that is, the House of Israel, have been lost to history.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Deuteronomy 32:26 says - I will cause the memory of them to cease among men. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]However, the Bible does give us some clues as to who they might be today. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]THE BLESSINGS - [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In Genesis 48 Jacob blesses Joseph’s sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. Both were to become great nations.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Deuteronomy 33:17 The 10,000s of Ephraim and the 1000s of Manasseh will push against the nations, even to the ends of the earth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Only the British Commonwealth and the United States of America fulfil these prophecies. The other 8 tribes seem to be identified with the European Union nations.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] Ref: The Tribes, Yair Davidy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]RETURN AND REJOINING IN THE LAND[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]There are over forty prophecies telling us of the House of Israel’s return to the Promised Land in the last days, so where they will migrate from gives the clues as to where they are now.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 31:8-10 See, I bring them from a Northern land ... gathered from the far ends of the earth.....a vast company...I am a Father to Israel and Ephraim is My eldest son.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 49:12 They are coming, some from far away, some from the North and West and others from the land of Sinim (Sinim - Hebrew: Southern land, Latin: Australi)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Hosea 11: They will follow the Lord and when He roars His sons will speed out of the West.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So, the main location of the lost ten tribes is in the Northwest and from there, spread around the world. [/SIZE]
Blessedhope, your unpleasant comments about replacement theology do not apply to me. I do not espouse that idea.
No, what I promote is that the Christian peoples, from every nation are mainly, in fact, descendants of those Israelites whom God scattered among the nations.
So God's mystery is this: Amos 9:9 I shall shake Israel among all the nations, as a sieve is shaken to and fro, but not one will be lost.
Therefore God's promises to the Patriarchs will be fulfilled, their descendants will occupy all of the Holy Land.
[SIZE=medium]Identifying the Tribes of Israel [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It is God’s plan that the House of Judah, i.e. the Jews, remain as an identifiable people group to fulfil the tasks assigned to them. In these present days, one task has been to replant and rebuild the Land. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]But the 10 Northern tribes, that is, the House of Israel, have been lost to history.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Deuteronomy 32:26 says - I will cause the memory of them to cease among men. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]However, the Bible does give us some clues as to who they might be today. [/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]Who has received the blessings promised?[/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]Where will they eventually come from to return to the Land?[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]THE BLESSINGS - [/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]To Abraham: Father of many nations, exceedingly fruitful,[/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]To Isaac: numberless descendants, Land given to them.[/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]To Jacob: The richness of the earth. Peoples will serve you. Curses on those who curse you, blessing on those who bless you. [/SIZE]
- [SIZE=medium]To the 12 sons of Jacob (Israel): See in Genesis 49.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]In Genesis 48 Jacob blesses Joseph’s sons, Ephraim and Manasseh. Both were to become great nations.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Deuteronomy 33:17 The 10,000s of Ephraim and the 1000s of Manasseh will push against the nations, even to the ends of the earth.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Only the British Commonwealth and the United States of America fulfil these prophecies. The other 8 tribes seem to be identified with the European Union nations.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium] Ref: The Tribes, Yair Davidy.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]RETURN AND REJOINING IN THE LAND[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]There are over forty prophecies telling us of the House of Israel’s return to the Promised Land in the last days, so where they will migrate from gives the clues as to where they are now.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Jeremiah 31:8-10 See, I bring them from a Northern land ... gathered from the far ends of the earth.....a vast company...I am a Father to Israel and Ephraim is My eldest son.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Isaiah 49:12 They are coming, some from far away, some from the North and West and others from the land of Sinim (Sinim - Hebrew: Southern land, Latin: Australi)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Hosea 11: They will follow the Lord and when He roars His sons will speed out of the West.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]So, the main location of the lost ten tribes is in the Northwest and from there, spread around the world. [/SIZE]
Spiritual Israel is the inner, faithful Israel and was the only one not rejected even to this day. Spiritual Israel is Remnant Israel, reconciled into Isaac:
Full Preterism: True Jews and the Children of Abraham: http://youtu.be/rlwluGWYJmY
Full Preterism: True Jews and the Children of Abraham: http://youtu.be/rlwluGWYJmY
Israel has always been the Church
Israel is the Root of the New Testament Church
The scriptures clearly teach that the church did not start on the day of Pentecost. It already existed. In Abraham, God called out a people and a church for his name. Israel is the root of the New Testament Church. The mystery hidden from the foundation of the world was that the Gentile should be graffed into that root. The Gentiles are not a separate tree.
Those Jews who abide in unbelief are broken off from their own tree through their unbelief. There is not special provision for them in the "tribulation period" (incidentally, the Bible does not teach that Christians will escape the great tribulation. It teaches the opposite and says for us to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day). All they have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and they will be immediately graffed back into their own tree. In speaking of Israel, Paul says this is Romans 11--
This is a plain, untwisted reading of the holy scriptures. For other witnesses see I Thessalonians 2:14-16, Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:26-29. There is something out today called, "the Hebrew roots of Christianity," or "Hebrew roots," this is also a heresy--that is not what is being referred to here.I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, AND WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [We are all in ONE tree.]
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature INTO a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [There is only ONE tree. We get in by faith in the blood of Jesus.]
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be COME IN.
Israel is the Root of the New Testament Church
The scriptures clearly teach that the church did not start on the day of Pentecost. It already existed. In Abraham, God called out a people and a church for his name. Israel is the root of the New Testament Church. The mystery hidden from the foundation of the world was that the Gentile should be graffed into that root. The Gentiles are not a separate tree.
Those Jews who abide in unbelief are broken off from their own tree through their unbelief. There is not special provision for them in the "tribulation period" (incidentally, the Bible does not teach that Christians will escape the great tribulation. It teaches the opposite and says for us to pray that our flight not be in the winter or on the sabbath day). All they have to do is believe in Jesus Christ and they will be immediately graffed back into their own tree. In speaking of Israel, Paul says this is Romans 11--
This is a plain, untwisted reading of the holy scriptures. For other witnesses see I Thessalonians 2:14-16, Colossians 3:11, Galatians 3:26-29. There is something out today called, "the Hebrew roots of Christianity," or "Hebrew roots," this is also a heresy--that is not what is being referred to here.I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, AND WITH THEM partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. [We are all in ONE tree.]
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature INTO a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? [There is only ONE tree. We get in by faith in the blood of Jesus.]
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be COME IN.
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