Why do some Christians see Christian art as idolatry?

[Invisibilis]

Do not forget what you learned here today.

You too.

 

[Dcopymope]

How did you change the glory of the incorruptible God into a corruptible man?
God made us in His image, yet it is you who sees the corruption.

Its not that we changed the incorruptible man into the corruptible, its just a fact of what humanity has been since Eden. We are still God's image bearers, but corruptible nonetheless, and will remain so until the Lords second coming. So when carving an image of God, how certain are you that the image you are carving is really that of the second Adam who saw no corruption and knew no sin and not of the first Adam who saw corruption and knew sin?

(1 John 3:2) "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."

Can you claim to have seen God in all his glory as he really is to be carving out an image of him, or is this coming from somewhere else? This brings me to the next point, which is your thoughts.

After all, we are totally responsible for our own thoughts and actions.

Not really actually, since we are told to bring every single thought captive to the obedience of God. One reason is because you can never really know if your thoughts are truly your own, and not Satan whispering in your ear for instance.

(2 Corinthians 10:3-6) "For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: {4} (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds {5} Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; {6} And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled."

A while ago I was curious to know what image I have in mind of the face of Christ, so I drew one. It didn't seem to fit what I hoped for, so I drew another. That too did not help. Then I realized that my ideal image of a perfect human could not be drawn by an imperfect one. No matter how I draw the face of Christ it won't be good enough.

So I decided to create a collage of faces of Christ in the hope of conveying the idea that Christ's image cannot be nailed down (so to speak). The collage, not yet completed, has 32 drawn faces. Each on a small piece of paper.

I know that non of these, or any I draw, will have any resemblance of the face of Christ. If somebody else decides to pick one out and think that looks close, it is purely a biased opinion based on what they already have been inundated with. Actually, I hope nobody will be satisfied with any of them.

My honest opinion is that these drawings for one doesn't even look remotely like someone from the middle east, but more like the typical, white washed hippy images people often use. If his appearance can't be nailed down, then why waste your time to begin with?

 

[Job]

You too.

When the Lord speaks, I listen.

 

[Armadillo]

Objects of worship are a no-no and I don't believe anyone that has posted in this thread believes worshiping objects is a yes-yes. So, whether you hang up a painting of Jesus, paint an image of Jesus, or wear a cross around your neck or make crosses with your own hands, just don't love the art or the jewelry more than you love Jesus otherwise it would be a Nehushtan. Are there Nehushtans in your life? If yes, take your focus off it and look in your heart, where Jesus is, and He can look like whatever you want Him to look like.

 

[Invisibilis]

...Not really actually, since we are told to bring every single thought captive to the obedience of God. One reason is because you can never really know if your thoughts are truly your own, and not Satan whispering in your ear for instance...

Everybody knows right from wrong even if we are in denial, for we had to know what to deny before we could deny it. Whenever we hear the truth about our untruths we always confirm it as true, and even at times say, "I always knew that". Nobody, even satan, can make us accept a suggestion or thought unless we ourselves have accepted it. We cannot blame anyone else, except ourselves. IMHO

...My honest opinion is that these drawings for one doesn't even look remotely like someone from the middle east, but more like the typical, white washed hippy images people often use. If his appearance can't be nailed down, then why waste your time to begin with?

As I already explained why. To help others to realize it is a waste of time to be transfixed on an image of Christ.

Some people are so quick to rubbish others good intentions. It seems inescapable. Perhaps it is the example of the corruptible...

We are still God's image bearers, but corruptible nonetheless, and will remain so until the Lords second coming.

 

[Job]

Some people are so quick to rubbish others good intentions.

Good intentions are not what's being "rubbished", it's the lies that accompany them.

 

[Invisibilis]

I wish to thank the responses from those who have supported my desire to express my love for God and Truth through art.
However, my posted artwork seems to offend some of the members here. To stop further offense I will, after this post, pull the artwork off this Christianity Board. It seems odd that some are offended by other peoples creativity. So I see no reason to remain here if I have to hold that part of my love for God in secret from this board.

And just now, I see that I have also been accused as a liar. Well, that is a fine example of Christianity indeed.
Bye, I am out of here!

 

[Job]

And just now, I see that I have also been accused as a liar. Well, that is a fine example of Christianity indeed.
Bye, I am out of here!

Your understanding is very limited. Nobody called you a liar.

 

[Dcopymope]

Everybody knows right from wrong even if we are in denial, for we had to know what to deny before we could deny it. Whenever we hear the truth about our untruths we always confirm it as true, and even at times say, "I always knew that". Nobody, even satan, can make us accept a suggestion or thought unless we ourselves have accepted it. We cannot blame anyone else, except ourselves. IMHO
As I already explained why. To help others to realize it is a waste of time to be transfixed on an image of Christ.

Some people are so quick to rubbish others good intentions. It seems inescapable. Perhaps it is the example of the corruptible...

And that hippy looking Jesus is your idea of your good intentions, of conveying that he is the way, the truth and life? The word of God isn't good enough on its own to do that for you?

 

[bbyrd009]

I wish to thank the responses from those who have supported my desire to express my love for God and Truth through art.
However, my posted artwork seems to offend some of the members here. To stop further offense I will, after this post, pull the artwork off this Christianity Board. It seems odd that some are offended by other peoples creativity. So I see no reason to remain here if I have to hold that part of my love for God in secret from this board.

And just now, I see that I have also been accused as a liar. Well, that is a fine example of Christianity indeed.
Bye, I am out of here!

ha, you seem to be overlooking that we are all...considering the sources here as well

 

[Armadillo]

I wish to thank the responses from those who have supported my desire to express my love for God and Truth through art.
However, my posted artwork seems to offend some of the members here. To stop further offense I will, after this post, pull the artwork off this Christianity Board. It seems odd that some are offended by other peoples creativity. So I see no reason to remain here if I have to hold that part of my love for God in secret from this board.

And just now, I see that I have also been accused as a liar. Well, that is a fine example of Christianity indeed.
Bye, I am out of here!

Who are the liars amongst us? Those who use the Law to condemn and guilt the believer. Stick around and remove their weapon, be you and show the Jesus in you for all to see.

I liked your posted artwork, it made me smile. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

i never even got to see it, dang!

 

[Dcopymope]

i never even got to see it, dang!

There was nothing to see that you haven't already seen a hundred times over.

 

[Helen]

I wish to thank the responses from those who have supported my desire to express my love for God and Truth through art.
However, my posted artwork seems to offend some of the members here. To stop further offense I will, after this post, pull the artwork off this Christianity Board. It seems odd that some are offended by other peoples creativity. So I see no reason to remain here if I have to hold that part of my love for God in secret from this board.

And just now, I see that I have also been accused as a liar. Well, that is a fine example of Christianity indeed.
Bye, I am out of here!

Hey there.
Don't overreact...it is not a beach to die on...not life or death.
You asked us a question in your OP and we all tried to answer honestly.
Sorry if the answers were not what you were hoping for.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

And just now, I see that I have also been accused as a liar. Well, that is a fine example of Christianity indeed.
Bye, I am out of here!

You may not be here to read this, but, my take would be...stay
here, just take a break...and place posters on Ignore that you'd like to not read anymore.
It is a wonderful service provided here!

 

[Job]

Hey there.
Don't overreact...it is not a beach to die on...not life or death.
You asked us a question in your OP and we all tried to answer honestly.
Sorry if the answers were not what you were hoping for.

Yeah, I don't get it. He wanted opinions and because he didn't hear what he wanted to hear, he feels he's being persecuted.

I'm the one he's mad at. I posted the truth and he didn't like it. And I didn't even say he couldn't do his christian art. It was the scriptures that convicted him, not me. I believe he saw something in those verses he'd never seen before. A truth he was unaware of and it confused him.

I'm not in the habit of telling people what they can or cannot do. I tell'em what the bible says and if they don't agree with it, there's nothing I can do about that. It's between them and God.

Oh well.....

 

[Richard_oti]

Deuteronomy 27
15 ‘Cursed is the one who makes a carved or molded image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’


What is it that causes men to ignore such a warning?

Or this one.

Deuteronomy 4
15 “Take careful heed to yourselves, for you saw no form when the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the midst of the fire,
16 lest you act corruptly and make for yourselves a carved image in the form of any figure: the likeness of male or female,


What causes someone to treat these pieces of scripture as if they didn't exist?

Perhaps someone who disagrees with these passages can explain their reasoning. I would truly like to know.

.

Careful Job, someone might mistake you for me, citing from the Instruction and all.

Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them ...

Deut 5:7 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 8 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 9 thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them ...

If we examine both Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5, there are actually several commands within the command.

But then we also have 1 Kings 6, now the Cherubim are one thing, however Solomon used bas-relief all over the walls and even upon the doors.

I do not see a "painting" as being much different than bas-relief. Now alto-relief is another beast in my opinion. Just like photographs, we could take that to the extreme and also "outlaw" such. However, neither paintings nor photographs are technically "carved" or "molten" images. If we really wanted to push it, we should also "outlaw" floral prints in clothing.

However, I do get your point. But I also have nothing against "Christian Art" in the form of painting within reason.

As for your questions regarding those, I see them as standing. I see them as something to take heed thereof. But I also consider all of the Instruction that is within my ability to uphold as something to take heed thereof.

Most, consider the majority of the Instruction as done away with. Such as: According to some ok to eat that which "God" has stated was "unclean". That shabat is no more, etc., etc., etc.. If we are to take heed to that which you cite, where do we draw the line to that which we should heed, and that which we may ignore or consider done away with?

That's one of the things that really piss me off, the anti homosexual rallies where the cite from the Instruction, Leviticus to be specific, yet they are utter hypocrites, in that they do not uphold the Instruction they are using against others.

Thus the problem, do we uphold the Instruction, and may we ignore it / consider it done away with?

I say, we uphold it.

Romans 3:31 Do we then nullify the law by this faith?
Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

 

[Job]

Most, consider the majority of the Instruction as done away with. Such as: According to some ok to eat that which "God" has stated was "unclean". That shabat is no more, etc., etc., etc.. If we are to take heed to that which you cite, where do we draw the line to that which we should heed, and that which we may ignore or consider done away with?

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.


This pretty much says it all regarding the Law and where the line is drawn.

Sadly, many don't understand the meaning of that passage. They believe that when Jesus gave up the Ghost, everything was fulfilled and the Law became null and void. These people are in for a rude awakening.

.

 

[tabletalk]

Matthew 5
17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.


This pretty much says it all regarding the Law and where the line is drawn.

Sadly, many don't understand the meaning of that passage. They believe that when Jesus gave up the Ghost, everything was fulfilled and the Law became null and void. These people are in for a rude awakening.

.

The Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ. And we have fulfilled the righteous requirement of the Law of Moses.

From Romans 8:
2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4. that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 13:8
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

We are now under the Law of God.
From Romans 7:
"25. I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[Job]

The Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ. And we have fulfilled the righteous requirement of the Law of Moses.

From Romans 8:
2. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4. that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 13:8
Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.

We are now under the Law of God.
From Romans 7:
"25. I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Has heaven and earth passed away?

The easiest way to explain it is, Jesus took the physical attributes of the Law and made them spiritual.

The passage from Romans exhibits that spiritual transformation. The Law of the Spirit (new covenant) vs the Law of sin and death (old covenant). Verse 4 mentions "the righteous requirement of the law". If the Law of Moses is abolished and no longer in affect, what law is Paul referencing? The same with love being the fulfillment of the law. What Law is Paul talking about if not the Law of Moses?

Romans 7:25 is another example of spiritual vs physical.


This is just the way I see it...

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