Calvinism?

Prayer Warrior · Oct 5, 2018

Mjh29 said:
1.) Hate goes both ways. For instance, many times I have tried to have a reasonable discussion with an Arminian, who then proceedes to berate me and call me a God hater. Heck, on this very forum, you can clearly see that Calvinists are not well accepted.

2.) John 3:16, the world for world means cosmos, or universe. God loved his creation too much to allow it to suffer for the sins of man. Because of Christs sacrifice, the whole universe will one day be made perfect again.

3.) Love is not giving everyone salvation. As I have stated previously;
- If Jesus died for all men, and all men are not saved, What happened?
-If Chdist did not save a specific people, but made us saveable, it is ultimately our choice, not his blood, that saved. If christ died for all, I am saved because I chose Him, not because He saved me. This is works righteousness, and I am sure that any christian who llves Christ would reject such a claim. Adminianism always breeds self righteousness.

I don't know you, MJ, but it kind of sounds as though you're justifying Christians showing hatred toward one another--like the Protestants and Roman Catholics in Ireland. BTW, I don't believe in universal salvation. Jesus said that few choose the narrow road that leads to life, but I believe that ALL are given the choice.

Prayer Warrior · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
The fact remains that men create extreme doctrines based on a lack of understanding of God's ways. So then if your experience or your understanding lines up with that man-made identifier...then people hop on board now convinced that they have the truth in the matter.
The fact is Jesus did die for more people than just Christians. He died for ALL men. Some who do not presently follow Christ (who is unknown to them) will also be saved...they who DO what Jesus asks.

Imagine going to West Point military academy. (I'm not an American but I have heard about this place). Now a person who goes there looks at the whole outside world as civilian. But upon graduation the new candidate sees that there is a whole aspect of the military that knows nothing of West Point. There are the enlisted men AND other branches of the forces.

So it is with Christianity.

We have been given access to the school of Christ. Very few will graduate from it. It is an exclusive training ground for overcomers who will one day rule over all others in creation.

So then Christianity is like an officer class. A ruling class. Not just a military class.

Others can also enlist.

I agree with what you say here about a manmade identifier. God's WHOLE truth is more than any mere human can wrap our minds around. Often Christians bicker with each other about two sides of a dichotomy, like free will and predestination. Both are clearly taught in the Bible, but we can't quite grasp how two SEEMING opposites can be true. It's two sides of the same coin, but we don't want to the coin to be two-sided, so we pick the side that makes the most sense to us. And in the process we can become so adamant about defending our side that we miss what's most important--to love God with all that's in us, to love one another (more than we love ourselves), to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation....

Episkopos · Oct 5, 2018

Prayer Warrior said:
I agree with what you say here about a manmade identifier. God's WHOLE truth is more than any mere human can wrap our minds around. Often Christians bicker with each other about two sides of a dichotomy, like free will and predestination. Both are clearly taught in the Bible, but we can't quite grasp how two SEEMING opposites can be true. It's two sides of the same coin, but we don't want to the coin to be two-sided, so we pick the side that makes the most sense to us. And in the process we can become so adamant about defending our side that we miss what's really important--to love God with all that's in us, to love one another (more than we love ourselves), to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation....

But how many are really qualified to teach others concerning the kingdom? I mean beyond the most basic message?

Didn't the Pharisees also indoctrinate those who came to them looking for the unique God?

So then one must actually know Christ and have walked with Jesus to teach others IMO. Having a doctrinal position or opinion is perhaps ok (at first) as long as you don't try recruiting others into your own beliefs. Then people are following men...not God.

Prayer Warrior · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
But how many are really qualified to teach others concerning the kingdom? I mean beyond the most basic message?

Didn't the Pharisees also indoctrinate those who came to them looking for the unique God?

So then one must actually know Christ and have walked with Jesus to teach others IMO. Having a doctrinal position or opinion is perhaps ok (at first) as long as you don't try recruiting others into your own beliefs. Then people are following men...not God.

What you're saying reminds me of the scripture about Paul not pleasing men because he considered himself to be a slave of Christ. Slaves aren't really entitled to our opinions. We have to grow up into Christ and see that our views aren't that important, especially denominational views that divide the body of Christ.

LC627 · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
Quite a scary thought....people won't accept the idea of a loving God.

With God's love comes justice and righteousness. Not a tolerance towards sin or looking the other way to excuse people.

LC627 · Oct 5, 2018

Prayer Warrior said:
In a rush to defend Calvin, you missed my main point. Why divide the body of Christ with man’s understanding of the scriptures. When we stand before the judgment seat of Christ, it will not be as Calvinists or Arminians!

I am not out to divide. I am more than happy to identify with Christ and that's what I do. Those who state against labels are often (but not always) the first to label others.

LC627 · Oct 5, 2018

“Heck, on this very forum, you can clearly see that Calvinists are not well accepted.” @Mjh29

So true!

Episkopos · Oct 5, 2018

LC627 said:
With God's love comes justice and righteousness. Not a tolerance towards sin or looking the other way to excuse people.

But what about a God with no favourites....a God of mercy? A God who is righteous and shows His loving kindness to all? The Calvinist scheme/agenda makes no such allowance. Can you say....a false witness of God?

Episkopos · Oct 5, 2018

LC627 said:
“Heck, on this very forum, you can clearly see that Calvinists are not well accepted.” @Mjh29

So true!

Any one sided theology should be refuted of course. A wilful blindness to all the verses that overturn the stated extremist view...shows that this is something of an indoctrination...where the use of free will has been set aside for religious purposes. But all such purposes do not serve the interest of God.

The whole counsel of God is needed to see the extremities (not extremes) of a larger picture.

LC627 · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
But what about a God with no favourites....a God of mercy? A God who is righteous and shows His loving kindness to all? The Calvinist scheme/agenda makes no such allowance. Can you say....a false witness of God?

I thought we were dropping “labels” in this case it’s not fair of you anymore to call me a Calvinist anymore lol

LC627 · Oct 5, 2018

God is angry with the wicked everyday. Ps. 7:11

LC627 · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
But what about a God with no favourites....a God of mercy? A God who is righteous and shows His loving kindness to all? The Calvinist scheme/agenda makes no such allowance. Can you say....a false witness of God?

A false witness of God is pulling the "God is love" card with no regard to His hatred towards sin and His judgment against it. God is love and merciful, yes, but God is so much more than just love and rainbows. He is the Great I Am that deserves to be held in deep reverence and not only fluffy thoughts of cuddles and love.

Episkopos · Oct 5, 2018

LC627 said:
A false witness of God is pulling the "God is love" card with no regard to His hatred towards sin and His judgment against it. God is love and merciful, yes, but is so much more than just love and rainbows. He is the Great I Am that deserves to be held in deep reverence and not only fluffy thoughts of cuddles and love.

The Calvinist agenda is that people don't have any chance. God, in this case, does not hear prayers. He pre-determines who is saved....and they have no choice in the matter. And He pre-determines who will burn in hell....with no say in the matter.

So the whole point of living this life is lost. There is no race, no adventure. This is NOT like God at all. Otherwise...

It's like playing with a cheater. The game is already pre-determined.

There's no point playing.

So then it is the doctrine of the enemy to portray God as unresponsive to prayers and is unable of mercy.

Those who do know God, know the enemy when they hear him.

Episkopos · Oct 5, 2018

LC627 said:
View attachment 4233 God is angry with the wicked everyday. Ps. 7:11

But not all are wicked. Mr. washer is a poster boy for this nonsense....and false teaching. Otherwise he wouldn't be popular in this time of the great falling away from the truth.

Look out for what the itching ears have raised up as a teacher. Be wise.

Some people are wicked. Some are righteous. Some are holy. And some are a discredit to holiness (the filthy)....the false teachers.

You can't put God in a box. But you also can't put people in a box.

bbyrd009 · Oct 5, 2018

LC627 said:
“Heck, on this very forum, you can clearly see that Calvinists are not well accepted.” @Mjh29

So true!

LC627 said:
Not a tolerance towards sin or looking the other way to excuse people.

gee i wonder why. Forgiveness does not seem to be very high on their list wadr

Episkopos · Oct 5, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
gee i wonder why. Forgiveness does not seem to be very high on their list wadr

And yet these claim to be justified by believing in a God who justifies the ungodly. But after they are converted, God stops justifying the ungodly???

bbyrd009 · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
But what about a God with no favourites....a God of mercy? A God who is righteous and shows His loving kindness to all? The Calvinist scheme/agenda makes no such allowance. Can you say....a false witness of God?

Proverbs 19:11 A man's insight gives him patience, and his virtue is to ...
Proverbs 19:11 A man's insight gives him patience, and his virtue is to overlook an offense.
A person's wisdom yields patience; it is to one's glory to overlook an offense. ... A man's discretion makes him slow to anger, And it is his glory to overlook a ...
‎Proverbs 19:11 KJV · ‎Proverbs 19:11 NASB · ‎Proverbs 19:11 NLT

Proverbs 17:9 Whoever conceals an offense promotes love, but he ...
Proverbs 17:9 Whoever conceals an offense promotes love, but he who brings it up separates friends.
He who conceals a transgression seeks love, But he who repeats a matter ... Anyone who overlooks an offense promotes love, but someone who gossips

bbyrd009 · Oct 5, 2018

Episkopos said:
And yet these claim to be justified by believing in a God who justifies the ungodly. But after they are converted, God stops justifying the ungodly???

zing

bbyrd009 · Oct 5, 2018

LC627 said:
A false witness of God is pulling the "God is love" card with no regard to His hatred towards sin and His judgment against it. God is love and merciful, yes, but God is so much more than just love and rainbows. He is the Great I Am that deserves to be held in deep reverence and not only fluffy thoughts of cuddles and love.

being forgiven when one is in sin is way worse to them than being judged, but bam keep pointing out others' sins.
You even have a Scripture v right

love the contrast of "deep reverence" and "not only fluffy thoughts of cuddles and love," that's kind of priceless, we even have a passage about this i think. This Sunday you are going to go to what you call "church" to do what you call "worship" that is like reelyreely close to what might be termed "cuddles and love" i guess. Just another perspective to reflect on ok, not saying the shoe fits everywhere

Prayer Warrior · Oct 5, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
gee i wonder why. Forgiveness does not seem to be very high on their list wadr

Please tell me what "wadr" means. I've been trying to figure it out, but my brain can't take that much hard work.

Calvinism?

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