The Beasts that come from Sea, Earth, and Bottomless pit
- Thread starter Bible_Gazer
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Only believers, so 144,000 plus a small number of Jews more.
In 2016 the total was 536,600.
I would say not more than 200,000. Petra plus tents mobile homes, etc.
Since this subject is on the internet on other websites about Jews going to be hidden in Petra.
Seem like its done exposed to the world and Satan.
So how are they going to be hid now ?
Seem like its done exposed to the world and Satan.
So how are they going to be hid now ?
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
But it says they will be protected there for three and half years, not open to attack.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You don't know what you're saying. If you did, you wouldn't create crazy scenarios like you did in your post #36, which is so far away from the Rev.12 context that it's almost like you're were writing a comic book.
From Post #36
This is what I see in Rev.12
There is two main symbolic characters that it is about.
First the woman and the Second the Red Dragon --- True
The place is in heaven - True v.1 and v.3
Satan fight Michael over the woman and prevailed not. = What were they fighting over ? Satan makes war again v.17
but
The woman flee into hiding. = v.14
She is not longer in heaven for protection.= goes into the wilderness for protection v.6 , 14
The Dragon cast into the earth to look for the woman.= v.13, and goes after her v.15-17 and he persecuted her
Satan hunts for her and finds her and goes after her other children. = v.13-17
So how far off is this comic book ?
Never mind, I already read your thoughts on it, thanks for your inputs.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Rev 12:1-5
12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
The "woman" represents Israel (per the symbols of Gen.37). The "woman" literally never was in heaven, so you fail to look at symbology properly from a Biblical perspective. This is a vision John was seeing, and these are symbols, so it's important to be careful interpreting the symbolic aspect in the literal sense. So why was this "woman" symbolically shown in heaven? It's because of timing in relation to the rest of the verses that follow. In Malachi 1, God said He loved Jacob, but hated Esau, and Paul showed that meant even before either child had been born. This "woman" being in heaven is pointing to the time before this world when He loved and chose Jacob, and thus Israel, and thus the Seed from which Israel would be born through.
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
And there it is, the idea of the "woman" representing the Seed of the Woman in Genesis 3, i.e., Eve. The lineage of Christ given in Luke 3 goes all the way back to the man Adam and his wife Eve.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Those underlined sections of verses you just skipped over. Those contain the very subject of my previous discussions. And you just omitted them like they weren't there.
So where does the belief that the bottomless is a hell hole in the ground ?
That Satan is there ?
Locust big as horses are there ?
7 headed beast is there ?
How many compartment are there in the earth where living being reside in ?
That Satan is there ?
Locust big as horses are there ?
7 headed beast is there ?
How many compartment are there in the earth where living being reside in ?
Davy
Well-Known Member
Well, I think you well know that the "bottomless pit" is just a symbol, but it's pointing to a very real place in the Heavenly dimension. The story Jesus told in Luke 16 about Lazarus and the rich man explains that hell (haides) is a place of separation in Heavenly Paradise.
Satan is still free to roam between both... before God's Throne, this earth, and Hades (hell). He isn't locked in his pit prison in hell until Jesus returns.
The locusts in Rev.9 are men, "a nation" God called them in the Book of Joel. All I'm gonna' say about that.
Rev.17 tells us the "seven heads" of Rev.12 & 13 are "seven mountains". The whore in Revelation is a "great city" per that same chapter, and she sits upon that beast that has seven heads. And that chapter gives us even yet another clue, telling us the whore sits upon many "waters", with explaining the "waters" are "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". It's just not all that difficult. One simply needs to pay attention to what our Lord Jesus revealed in that Rev.17 chapter about the seven headed beast.
Yes I do think the bottomless pit is symbolic.
Nothing to do with within the earth.
Its on top of it.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I know some believe it's in the cloud atmosphere around the earth, but in reality that is just part of this earthly material dimension we live in. Rev.12:7-9 shows where Satan's place is in Heaven. It's in the other... dimension of existence where The Father's abode is, called Heaven or Paradise. The Greek Septuagint Bible uses the Greek word 'paradise' for Eden, by the way.
The Sea = is the sea of ungodly humanity
The Earth = where the beast come from is humanity
The bottomless pit = is the fallen humanity.
Satan has been with humanity ever since they where created.
So the Red dragon has been around for a good long time with mankind. Not a certain day he will, but he has been.
The Earth = where the beast come from is humanity
The bottomless pit = is the fallen humanity.
Satan has been with humanity ever since they where created.
So the Red dragon has been around for a good long time with mankind. Not a certain day he will, but he has been.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That "humanity" philosophy I find curious, as modern Bible translations from Westcott & Hort's NT texts used for modern Bible translations leans towards Gnostic speech. No surprise, since they base it on the Alexandrian manuscripts that came out of Alexandria, Egypt, the school of Christian theologists there subjected to Greek Gnosticism (see Clement and Origen).
The sea that the 1st beast of Rev.13 rises out of represents peoples on the earth. Rev.17:15 revealed this as the 'waters' the whore sits over linked with the ten horns, seven heads.
The earth that the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 rises out of represents the bottomless pit, because it's about the dragon who only appears with two horns LIKE a lamb (or The Lamb, Jesus).
Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV
Rev. 17
The Harlot Woman sits on the beast. She controls it.
Ten Kings give power to the beast.
What is the beast here ? a political system ?
can't be Satan he seem to give power to the beast also.
Rev.19:19-20
The beast
the kings
false prophet
These 3 gets cast into the lake of fire, hurt by the second death before the Rev.20 lake of fire.
The Harlot Woman sits on the beast. She controls it.
Ten Kings give power to the beast.
What is the beast here ? a political system ?
can't be Satan he seem to give power to the beast also.
Rev.19:19-20
The beast
the kings
false prophet
These 3 gets cast into the lake of fire, hurt by the second death before the Rev.20 lake of fire.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Per Rev.17:1, the woman sits upon "many waters".
Per Rev.17:15, the "waters" are "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues"
Per Rev.17:3, the woman also sits upon a "scarlet colored beast, ... having seven heads and ten horns."
Per Rev.17:18, the woman is "that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth."
Putting that altogether, it's about a certain city on earth that involves a one-world beast kingdom, and that city is the headquarters for the beast system over all peoples and nations on earth. It will involve a royal monarchy rule, not a democracy, not a republic, etc.
The Ten Kings:
They give their power and strength to the beast (2nd beast, the Antichrist). These ten kings only come to power for "one hour" with the beast (2nd beast, the Antichrist). The "one hour" is symbolic of the time of "great tribulation" at the end, Daniel's latter 1260 day period of Dan.9:27. Per Daniel 7, the 2nd beast will subdue three kings, not destroy but subdue (shaphel - humble, debase). This suggests a pyramid type ruling structure for the whole political system of ten kings with the Antichrist. I base it on Tri-lateralism of the Tri-Lateral Commission political think-tank. They devised many years ago a plan to divide the earth up into 3 main regions (like unions). Could the 3 three subdued kings of Dan.7 be a pattern for 3 kings humbled under the Antichrist's ruling structure? and the rest of the seven kings ruling over the seven main continents? This is what I believe it could be pointing to.
Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
KJV
It does not say the kings go into the lake of fire, but only the "beast" and the "false prophet". So which beast, and who is the false prophet?
IMPORTANT CONDITION: ONLY Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire". No flesh man has been judged to perish yet, and won't be judged until after Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Rev.20.
1. there are 2 different beasts described in Rev.13. The 1st beast is a kingdom beast per Rev.13:1-2. The 2nd beast is the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 that has two horns LIKE a lamb (mimic of Jesus), and speaks as a dragon (Satan), and works the miracles described above.
2. the 2nd beast of Rev.13:11 forward is the "dragon" of Rev.13:4-8, i.e., the coming Antichrist. Many try to say he is this false prophet, because of the miracle working, and they are correct, however... this 2nd beast is actually the dragon, Satan himself per Rev.12:9. The false prophet is a ROLE he will play as the Antichrist (or 'in place of Christ').
3. the "false prophet" is a ROLE Satan (dragon) will play, and it is destroyed when Jesus comes, but not the dragon.
3. this "beast" that is destroyed is the one-world kingdom beast of Rev.13:1-2, i.e. the 1st beast.
The 2nd beast, i.e., the one who speaks as a "dragon", is not cast into the "lake of fire" yet at the end of Rev.19. It's because this 2nd beast is Satan himself, as he is locked in his pit prison when our Lord Jesus returns (per Rev.20).
The kings of the earth are locked in the pit with Satan when Jesus returns; they are not destroyed yet.
Isa 24:20-23
20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.
KJV
“Sea,”-used in a figurative sense-refers to people/nations. See 2 Samuel 22:5; Isaiah 57:20; Daniel 7:2-7; Habakkuk 1:14, 15; Revelation 17:15.
“Earth,”- used in a figurative sense-refers to people/nation/government already established. See Psalms 100:1; Isaiah 65:17; Habakkuk 2:14. Consider 2 Peter 3:5, 7. Peter mentions earth” literally and figuratively. For example: the two-horned beast is also political entity -under the control/influence of Satan-emerged from an established earthly government/s.
“Abyss,” by a modern definition, is an exceptional deep pit/chasm. In the Bible, it refers literally to a pit/grave; and,-at times-symbolically to a place/condition of confinement and inactivity.-Compare 2 Samuel 22:6; Romans 10:6, 7; Revelation 11:7; 17;8; 20:3, 7.
“Earth,”- used in a figurative sense-refers to people/nation/government already established. See Psalms 100:1; Isaiah 65:17; Habakkuk 2:14. Consider 2 Peter 3:5, 7. Peter mentions earth” literally and figuratively. For example: the two-horned beast is also political entity -under the control/influence of Satan-emerged from an established earthly government/s.
“Abyss,” by a modern definition, is an exceptional deep pit/chasm. In the Bible, it refers literally to a pit/grave; and,-at times-symbolically to a place/condition of confinement and inactivity.-Compare 2 Samuel 22:6; Romans 10:6, 7; Revelation 11:7; 17;8; 20:3, 7.
Similar threads
