Proof: being born-again is different than being “baptized with the Holy Spirit”

[teamventure]

Hi teamventure,
What has been pointed out, I hope, is the fact that being born again is two fold, if we don't count the blood of Jesus, Water and Spirit.

God has chosen, by his blood, to cleanse us of or sin by water, and seal us with the Holy Ghost.

1Jn 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

We must have our sins remitted, no other way to heaven.

Peter said to be baptized for the remission of sin.
a. Release, as from a debt, penalty, or obligation.
b. Forgiveness; pardon.

1Ti 5:24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after.
*Our sins go before us when we are baptized so we will not face judgement when we leave this world.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Mar 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

Luk 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Mat 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

all of those verses are true but none of them proove your doctrine. it's just not in there.
Godbless

 

[Rocky Wiley]

all of those verses are true but none of them proove your doctrine. it's just not in there.
Godbless

I no intention of proving a doctrine. I am just saying that Jesus said we must be born of the water and the Spirit to enter into the kingdom of God. One can receive the Holy Ghost and not be baptized. Or one can be baptized and not have the Holy Ghost and I concur.
In this thread John said that being born again is different from being baptized in the Holy Spirit. That is true, they are different , but being baptized is a part of being born again, the other is baptizm in water. That is because Jesus said that we must be born again of the water and the Spirit.

You say "you're born of spirit when the holy spirit enters you at coversion". I ask you to give the scripture where that conversion happens?

God Bless!

 

[John Zain]

... being baptized is a part of being born again, the other is baptizm in water.
That is because Jesus said that we must be born again of the water and the Spirit.

All of the Bible scholars I know of say there are about eight (yes, 8) different possibilities
as to what Jesus was talking about re: "born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:5-8).

 

[Rex]

All of the Bible scholars I know of say there are about eight (yes, 8) different possibilities
as to what Jesus was talking about re: "born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:5-8).

And people read that passage and think Nicodemus was confused
Ones things certain there are many Harry Potters practicing new recipes

That reminds me of a video I watched the other day where Benny Hen said father son and holy ghost equates to 9 different parts of God.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

All of the Bible scholars I know of say there are about eight (yes, 8) different possibilities
as to what Jesus was talking about re: "born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:5-8).

With all due respect, Bible scholars are many times wrong when compared to scripture;

Jesus said we must be born again of the water and the Spirit Joh 3:5

Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.

After Peter saw that Cornelius and those with him had received the gift of the Holy Ghost, he then said:
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

If being born of the water and the Spirit, doesn't mean baptism in water, then the scriptures are wrong to point out water baptism and Spirit (capital letter means God's Spirit).

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

Let us not put our faith in man. Compare what they say with God's word.

 

[justaname]

What about the thief on the cross? He was never baptized in water.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

What about the thief on the cross? He was never baptized in water.

Let me say this first, we don't know if he was baptized or not, but we do know that the Holy Ghost had not yet been given.

This is something that comes up often. The answer is, the thief had no knowledge of God's new covenant plan of salvation. He was still living in the age of law.
Peter opened the gates of heaven, and the church age, on the day of pentecost, about 50 days later.

I use these terms age of law and church age for reverence only, but to show the new covenant plan of salvation had not taken place at the time the thief was on the cross. Therefore being born again was not required.

 

[John Zain]

With all due respect, Bible scholars are many times wrong when compared to scripture ...
Let us not put our faith in man. Compare what they say with God's word.

All of these commentaries (and thou also) wrangle the Scriptures,
and come up with their conclusions, usually to satisfy their long-held opinions.
Welcome to the "Thou aren't anyone special" club, my boy!
And keep up the good work.

 

[Rocky Wiley]

All of the Bible scholars I know of say there are about eight (yes, 8) different possibilities
as to what Jesus was talking about re: "born of water and the Spirit" (John 3:5-8).

The scriptures say what they say. I am not the one who changes anything.

Nice to know you think I would fit in your group, but no thanks!

All of these commentaries (and thou also) wrangle the Scriptures,
and come up with their conclusions, usually to satisfy their long-held opinions.
Welcome to the "Thou aren't anyone special" club, my boy!
And keep up the good work.

Hi John,

The scriptures are not my conclusions, they are God's. How do you feel I have changed them? Are you judging me or the bible? Give the scripture you don't agree with and I will try to reply with scripture. Or maybe one of your bible scholars might have a couple of scriptures to back up their opinons. We know that the only way to prove something is with two or more witnesses. So two scriptures would be good.

Again I thank you for your invite and even thou I realize I am nothing special, I do decline your request to join your group.

 

[John Zain]

The scriptures say what they say. I am not the one who changes anything.
The scriptures are not my conclusions, they are God's. How do you feel I have changed them?

By wrangling the Scriptures, I mean picking only the verses that support your bias.

The scholars appreciate all the verses, and honestly and humbly see about 8 possible explanations.

You are obviously no scholar! ... Regardless, thou keepest up the good work, okay?

 

[Rocky Wiley]

By wrangling the Scriptures, I mean picking only the verses that support your bias.

The scholars appreciate all the verses, and honestly and humbly see about 8 possible explanations.

You are obviously no scholar! ... Regardless, thou keepest up the good work, okay?

Thanks for the kind words John,

One scripture does not contradict another. So, either your sources are wrong or the bible is wrong. I am willing to look if you have any evidence to the contrary.

 

[John Zain]

Let's see, under my "R" list of ______________ I have Rex and Rocky.
Wonder if there are any more "R" candidates?
I'll keep a close eye open for more.

 

[Rex]

Let's see, under my "R" list of ______________ I have Rex and Rocky.
Wonder if there are any more "R" candidates?
I'll keep a close eye open for more.

Goodness forbid that someone suggest laying the milk bottle down and be accused of not loving a brother in the Lord.

Some people are simply to busy making the elementary things of the Lord the depth and breath of salvation.
Like tongues and baptisms, all hail the super bottle and be slain in the spirit --> Its nap time


12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. 13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will[a] do if God permits.

 

[IanLC]

Yes I speak in tongues as the Holy Spirit gives the utterance but more than tongues I believe and show love and the other fruit of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit has empowered me through the Word of God to have more and show more love, compassion, mercy and other fruit of the Holy Spirit to bretheren and those that are not saved. I did not and could not yes I believed in Jesus but the power of the gospel was not made known to me or completely changed me until I received the Holy Ghost and He has led me into truth revealed in our Lord Jesus CHrist. Holiness is the true evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost and salvation. For since the gospel lead man to repentance which means to turn away from sin and the gospel is to change then if your lifestyle has not changed you can love whomever and all you want your salvation is void.

 

[marksman]

The preparatory ministry of John threw baptism

Rex, as a matter of interest, how did John throw baptism?

God threw Moses.

And how did God throw Moses?

 

[Rex]

I did mention at the bottom of post 7
I'm not a great writer, I struggle with the pen--> but I pray that in my weakness the Lord may be manifest.
I'm sure If my high school teacher would to grade it I'd receive another D, Its a shame If that is all you noticed or perhaps a blessing If that's the only disagreement you have, I hope you understood my intent.

In both post 4 and 7 I took the effort to demonstrate the Rock being struck and spoken to bringing forth water are symbolic of Acts 2 and 10
The Spirit being given to Israel and then to the Gentiles.

As well as the part where Moses was to speak to the Rock "the second time" and didn't, God punished him and Arron, by not allowing him to lead Israel over the Jordan.

In the same vein my intent is not to stumble a brother but rather to encourage them to move on into the fulness of salvation leaving the elementary behind, see post 53, I not so certain the shepherds use dogs during the time of Christ but I do notice dogs and wolves look alot alike especially to sheep, the difference being one is under the direction of the Shepherd and the other comes to destroy. When the herd dog starts to gather or move the herd there's lots of protest as well. In the same way babies protest when you take away their pacifiers.


Again I hope u understand the intent of my heart, God knows and that's all that really matters.