JW Non-Millennialism: Jesus comes again 'in the flesh'

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ewq1938

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Its not "two second comings"...its just one...and it took place in 1914 when Christ indicated his return by a series of world events, indicating that it was not a visible presence, but unseen by the world at large......

It was unseen and unknown even by Jesus himself.



just like his return to heaven. The angels said that Christ would return in the same "manner" as he left.....it was only witnessed by his apostles...the world of that time was unaware that it had taken place.....

The second coming will be seen by all, and it will be a very obvious event so no, it did not happen in 1914.


Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.


Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

WPM

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Jesus and His resurrected saints ruling in immortal bodies on earth.
Natural people coming to the Lord to hear Him and walk in His paths.
Disobedient people being punished swiftly.
The lion laying down with the lamb, and no more warfare between nations.

It will be the King's kingdom of peace on this earth, and will be the greatest harvest of souls ever by the gospel of Jesus Christ, preched and ministered by Jesus Himself in Person, as well as by His resurrected saints.

Where do you get all this in Revelation 20? Nowhere! You force it upon the inspired text. That is Premil in a nutshell. It is extra-biblical.
 

Aunty Jane

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Nor do any churches I know of teach what you say they do.

I have never hear any Christian say the Lord's appearing again on earth, is Jesus Christ coming in the flesh again, until I just read it from a JW.
Since this is something we do not believe, I can see that all your tirades are the result of failure to actually read things correctly.....you see what you want to see, and off you go and babble on about what you assume to be true, rather than what is actual truth. All that effort to prove that you are completely incorrect about everything to say about us.....you have a comprehension problem and see yourself as some kind of vigilante.

I feel sorry for you....you have such hatred for people you do not even know.
 

Truth7t7

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Pasting long-winded tradition, is not necessary when just saying no, without addressing anything specific.
Starting New Threads on the same subject, after you have been proven wrong again and again isn't necessary
 
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Aunty Jane

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It was unseen and unknown even by Jesus himself.
Matthew 24:36 ....
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."
This does indicate that the son did not know when he was to return, and fulfill the rest of his mission as Messiah.....i.e. at the time when the Bible was written....but almost 2000 years hence, and I think the Father would have informed his son of the time for his return.
Does it not strike you as odd that the Father would know things that his son does not? Since Jesus is believed to be God, I found that to be rather illogical....can God hide things from himself?
The second coming will be seen by all, and it will be a very obvious event so no, it did not happen in 1914.
The second coming has already taken place as indicated by the "signs" that Jesus gave to show his disciples that it had occurred, which also corresponds with the time calculation given in the book of Daniel, whose book was all about "the time of the end" and we are seeing his prophesies fulfilled in every detail.

Why would Jesus give his disciples a "sign of his "parousia" (presence) if it was a visible event? Jesus has been here all along, 'separating the sheep from the goats' all through these last days, which are a judgment period, just as the days before the flood were a judgment period.
Noah preached to the people all the time that he was constructing the ark.....they had plenty of time to listen and to take heed, but not a single one did outside of Noah's family.
Rev_1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
If Jesus left in the clouds, and the angel said that he would return in the same "manner", what makes you think that his arrival was going to be visible? Clouds obscure things. But his "manifestation" will indeed be a visible thing.....his presence is the beginning of the "last days"...and his manifestation as judge will be at the end. The time in between was to make sure that "the good news of the kingdom was preached in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations"...before "the end" would come. That global preaching was part of the" sign". Who is doing it the way Jesus commanded? (Matthew 10:11-14; Acts 20:20) The churches are M.I.A.....

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
What is the "sign" that "appears" after the tribulation?

His "parousia" (presence) is a completely separate event to his 'manifestation' at the the end of this age, when all will know that he is here ready to "separate the sheep from the goats". How will he know which is which? He has been observing all humankind in these last days and they will have separated themselves, following one of only two roads (Matthew 7:13-14)....The majority, despite their protestations that Jesus is their "Lord" will be rejected by him entirely because they had every chance to come to the Father through his son...but stopped at the son, never getting to give proper worship to his Father, (who is also his God. John 6:65; Rev 3:12). That is why he has never known them. (Matthew 7:21-23) He only wanted to bring glory to his Father, never did he seek glory or worship from men.
 
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robert derrick

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You are so stubborn, you cannot even come to admit you were making false accusations and hurling lies. Christians when they are caught on repent and apologize. But not you!

This whole thread is a joke. Why would anyone take you serious from now on?

It is you that is promoting JW theology.
Good points. Well done. You certainly refuted what I have to say.

No, I won't be repenting of disagreeing with you any time soon.

Also, several people in your sect have descended into site violations of inflammatory insults, due to your anger at people disagreeing with you.

It's not that I personally care so much, but it becomes a waste of time to check out your replies.

One warning only. Keep it professional, or move on.
 

robert derrick

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Starting New Threads on the same subject, after you have been proven wrong again and again isn't necessary
There is no site restriction on amount of threads posted on a given subject.

In the meantime, trolling is. People in your sect are becoming increasingly angered and insulting by the disagreements of others.

Stick to the points made, or move on. One warning only, then we'll let the moderators decide.
 

WPM

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Good points. Well done. You certainly refuted what I have to say.

No, I won't be repenting of disagreeing with you any time soon.

Also, several people in your sect have descended into site violations of inflammatory insults, due to your anger at people disagreeing with you.

It's not that I personally care so much, but it becomes a waste of time to check out your replies.

One warning only. Keep it professional, or move on.

Your argument here is based on lies. The JWs are Premil not Amils, as you allege. Premils have even tried to correct you. Yet, you refuse to apologize or repent. Secondly, your threats are infantile. You have threatened me by private message and publicly. This will never work. Intimation belongs to bullies. It is unChristian. It shows how much you lack a solid biblical argument. Thirdly, calling Amils a "sect" is designed to insult and inflame. Shame on you. We could throw the exact same slur at you and Premils. But it is unprofitable.

If you attack or misrepresent Amil I reserve the right to respond.

The reason why you are so hostile and frustrated to Amils is because you have no biblical response to their posts.
 
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Truth7t7

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There is no site restriction on amount of threads posted on a given subject.

In the meantime, trolling is. People in your sect are becoming increasingly angered and insulting by the disagreements of others.

Stick to the points made, or move on. One warning only, then we'll let the moderators decide.
I belong to the Church on earth, your claim I belong to a sect is insulting, im waiting for your apology to your untrue defamatory claims
 

Timtofly

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Let us see what the Watchtower organization teaches instead of the fake news your are promoting:


The Millennium—What Is It?

How has it been viewed? Can we expect it in the future?

“A time during which man’s yearnings for peace, freedom from evil, and the rule of righteousness upon earth are finally realized through the power of God.”

THAT is how the Encyclopædia Britannica describes the Bible teaching of the “1,000-year period, known as the millennium.”

Do you not agree that we would like such a description to become a reality? Certainly we would like to enjoy ‘peace, freedom from evil and righteousness upon earth.’ But is that prospect part of your belief concerning the millennium?

For many persons it is not, for they know little or nothing about the millennium. That is true even of millions who have attended church, because many religions leave the subject virtually unmentioned. It is almost as if it is something that God included in the Bible but that is no longer of interest or importance.

Yet, as we have seen, God’s Word links the millennium with a description of his wiping away sorrow, tears and death. So we have good reason to want to understand what Jehovah God says and means regarding the millennium. Our future and that of our family may well be involved.

You can open your Bible to Revelation chapter 20 to find the most of what the Bible says about the thousand-year reign of Christ. The apostle John shares with us what he was privileged to see:

“I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. . . .

“And I saw thrones, and there were those who sat down on them. . . . Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus. . . . And they came to life and ruled as kings with Christ for a thousand years. . . .

“Now as soon as the thousand years have been ended, Satan will be let loose out of his prison, and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth. . . . But fire came down out of heaven and devoured them. And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire. . . .

“And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. . . . Furthermore, whoever was not found written in the book of life was hurled into the lake of fire [the second death].”—Rev. 20:1-15.

So, according to the Bible, the millennium is a period when Satan will not be free to mislead humans, the dead will be raised and judged, and mankind will be ruled righteously by Jesus Christ and his joint heirs.

You may rightly wonder, though, why so little is heard about this in the churches or in religious circles. The fact is that if you inquired, you would find that some religions hold that the millennium is not a literal 1,000-year period during which Christ will rule. Another common teaching is that the millennium is but a symbol of Christ’s reign starting almost 2,000 years ago and still continuing. Just what are you to believe? We can be greatly helped in understanding this important matter by considering what the apostle John and his fellow apostles believed and also what developed after Jesus’ faithful apostles died by the end of the first century...

WHERE AND WHEN?

... some say that the millennium is not an actual period of 1,000 years, but is just a long, indefinite period that may have started centuries ago. Can that be correct? It is true that certain numbers or time periods in the book of Revelation are figurative, for the message of the book was presented in many “signs.” (Rev. 1:1, 4; 2:10) However, is there reason to believe that the “thousand years” is not a symbol?

In Revelation chapter seven the apostle makes a contrast between the set number who reign with Christ (144,000) and the indefinitely larger number who survive the “great tribulation.” How does John do so? He terms the latter group the “great crowd, which no man was able to number.” (Rev. 7:4, 9) Later on, he refers again to the definite number, “the hundred and forty-four thousand.” (Rev. 14:3) Similarly, in Revelation 20:8, John says that the indefinitely large number of persons rebelling at the end of the millennium “is as the sand of the sea.” Nor does the apostle John, in Revelation chapter 20, employ the plural “thousands,” which is sometimes used elsewhere to indicate a large and perhaps indefinite number.
The line between Amil and post mill is blurred at times. You even claim to be a millennialist. You even claim Jesus is currently reigning during this millennium of yours. You would argue with the JW's over the length, but they would agree with you that Jesus is not on the earth. They don't remove the Millennium like you do from context and declare it almost over. They are post millennialists who declare the earth perfect at the end.


It is Scriptural in part to say the Millennium gets better, but not like post millennialist. The definition of a Second Coming strictly includes Christ on earth. If Christ is not on earth then the Second Coming has not happened. Not sure why some fudge this concrete definition that at the Second Coming Christ as King is now on the earth. The Second Coming is not the Lord waiving at the earth from the firmament.


If you can say straight faced we are in the Millennium and the Second Coming is spiritual since you deny Jesus as King is coming to earth, but has been reigning as King, then the first and Second Coming already happened because you don't need Jesus on earth at all. You may as well call this the NHNE as this will go on forever and Jesus will continue to rule until all things are corrected. That is how you interpret 1 Corinthians 15:25-28


"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

You put that in the here and now, way after the Second Coming. Obviously Jesus won't rule as King after the end. The end is the end, correct?

Pre-milll point out the Millennium is between the Second Coming and the end per Paul. Jesus reigns on earth, because the Second Coming brings Christ to earth and Jesus as King rules on earth until all creation is subjected.

Amil claim it takes an indefinite period of time to subject the earth. Thousands perhaps even tens of thousands of years. They do not hold that Days of the Lord are in 1,000 year increments. In fact they are post mill when it comes to how long it takes to get a perfect earth. You may be more strict in your time and declare post mill work is immediately done at the end of the Millennium, but that is still post mill perfection, and reigning until things are perfect. Perfect just happens faster than drawn out over time.


Obviously many pre-mill hold to that interpretation of 1 Corinthians 15 that the Millennium does not start out perfect, but Jesus must reign in person until it is subjected. Then Amil argue that it is a bust, because billions still "revolt". However even in sin and current humanity there could be several hundred billion on earth in 1,000 years. So 10% or 5% is not a bust. Unless you think you go broke when you give God your tithe every week.

The proper interpretation would be that Jesus does not take 1,000 years to make it all perfect. At the Second Coming all sin and decay is cleanesd by fire. All things are made new immediately. The reason for reigning for 1,000 years is simply to populate the earth. Since Genesis 1:28 already defines what it means to subdue the earth. It is to fill it with humans.

"And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

The earth is not populated by sinners in the Millennium. It is filled by those without sin in perfect permanent incorruptible physical bodies. Sin and sin nature is not the point of subjection. That was the task of the church over the last 1992 years. Genesis 1:28 was not about sin and corruption. There was no sin at that point. There was no sin for a whole Day of the Lord. Of course you deny what a Day of the Lord is. It could be 24 hours. It could be a million years. You obviously don't hold to any specific time frame even though God's Word does. Then you claim you are being misinterpreted. You have posted many times the term just means no time and God's time of no time. Or when it suits you, 24 hours. Although the words for 24 hours is found less in Scripture than the words for 1,000 years. The term day was used in the first century as the 12 hours of daylight. A watch in the night was 3 hours with 4 watches during the night time. They would work for 3 hours, 6 hours, 9 hours, or 12 hour periods. The concept of a specific 24 hours is not found in first century understanding. 12 hours at the most. In Genesis 1 the evening and the morning as one day is as close as we get. The phrase evening and morning are not used in 2 Peter 3.
 

Timtofly

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There are things that happened when Christ returned in 1914 that have fulfilled the "sign" that Jesus gave concerning his "presence", stated in post #26....so what does a "presence" (parousia) indicate? If you were at a gathering and saw someone you knew, would you assume that the time of his coming to the gathering was not known to you...but as he is present, you have to assume that he arrived when you were not observing?

Why would Jesus give a "sign" if his presence was clearly visible as it is when his judgment is delivered? (Matt 24:3; Rev 1:7)

When Jesus "comes" as judge.....then we will "see" what was prophesied to take place, with the cleansing of this earth and the end of all wickedness. No one will be in any doubt as to what is happening.
These are two separate events, with two sets of evidence that identify each one of them, but the interval is not stated. We know when the last days began, but no one knows when they will end.....only God. (Matthew 24:36)

Christ's "presence" precedes all those world events that have already taken place and are still happening, because it was given as a "sign" that he had returned....he is already here, and is overseeing the greatest preaching and disciple making campaign the world has ever seen. (Matt 28:19-20)

When Jesus comes as judge, all will know that he has come, and will be quaking in their boots because they will know that its the time when they will have no excuses to offer. (Matthew 7:21-23)
Jesus sitting as King on a throne in a Temple in Jerusalem would be a dead give away.

Matthew 25:31

The angels on the earth would be the other sign. Since we still see the stars in the sky, the angels are still at their post, and not on earth.

The third obvious phenomenon would be God sitting on the GWT. That will be seen at the Second Coming because humans will no longer have a spiritual blindness preventing them from seeing that physical GWT.

There is no seperate parousia from the physical Second Coming. There is only one event at the opening of the 6th Seal in Revelation 6.

We are as humans spiritually blind and deceived. After the Second Coming, humans will not be spiritually blind, just deceived.
 

robert derrick

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Your campaign of hate and misinformation is crumbling before your face.
Double boo-hoo.

And, if we were face to face, you wouldn't be talking to me like that. Especially if you don't think I behave like a Christian.

Whether on secular sites, or on Christian sites. Online warriors are all cowards.
 

robert derrick

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Where do you get all this in Revelation 20? Nowhere! You force it upon the inspired text. That is Premil in a nutshell. It is extra-biblical.
Where do you get Rev 20 is the only Scriptural source of Christ's Millennium?

And you don't even believe that part.

I believe God writes Scripture in such a way as to take the crafty in their own craftiness, when purposely mishandling His word.

That's why I believe He wrote the thousand years 6 times in 7 verses of Rev 20, just to show who doesn't take Him nor His words literally, when they want to prophecy something other than His word.

Your prophecy of the future, without Christ's thousand years of ruling them on earth, is false prophecy.
 

WPM

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Where do you get Rev 20 is the only Scriptural source of Christ's Millennium?

And you don't even believe that part.

I believe God writes Scripture in such a way as to take the crafty in their own craftiness, when purposely mishandling His word.

That's why I believe He wrote the thousand years 6 times in 7 verses of Rev 20, just to show who doesn't take Him nor His words literally, when they want to prophecy something other than His word.

Your prophecy of the future, without Christ's thousand years of ruling them on earth, is false prophecy.

Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
 

shilohsfoal

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The only christ coming in the flesh just before His appearing in the air, will be the last great antichrist false apostle, who will appear to have risen from the dead, and will have fire come down out of heaven in the sight of men.

It will be seen who receives that one.
I think there are two of those.
Two horns representing two prophets.

They don't appear to have risen from the dead though.That would be the beast they are assisting in Israel.
 

shilohsfoal

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Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

Moses employs `a thousand' in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, "Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

1 Chronicles 16:13-17 also states, "O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones. He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth. Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations; Even of the covenant which he made with Abraham, and of his oath unto Isaac; And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A thousand and ten thousand are used together in Psalm 91, saying, "Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day; Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee" (vv 5-7).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

A similar contrast between these two numbers or ideas is seen in Deuteronomy 32:30, where a rhetorical question is asked, "How should one chase a thousand, and two put ten thousand to flight, except their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had shut them up?"

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Joshua affirms, on the same vein, in chapter 23, "One man of you shall chase a thousand: for the LORD your God, he it is that fighteth for you, as he hath promised you" (v 10).

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Isaiah the prophet similarly declares in Isaiah 30:17, "one thousand shall flee at the rebuke of one."

This incidentally is the only passage in Scripture that makes mention of the actual number "one thousand," albeit, the term is used to impress a spiritual truth.

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Psalm 84:9-10 says, "Behold, O God our shield, and look upon the face of thine anointed. For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The figure a thousand is also employed in Psalm 50:10-11 saying, "For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills. I know all the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

Ecclesiastes 7:27-28 succinctly says, "one man among a thousand have I found."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

In the same vein, Job 33:23 declares, "If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?

The distinct contrast between one and a thousand is again found in Job 9:2-3, where Job declares, "I know it is so of a truth: but how should man be just with God? If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand."

Is this a literal or figurative thousand?
1000 years is actually a day to the Lord.

Mathew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.


Going to be nice having the Lord reign on earth for that 1000 years.


2 Peter 3
King James Version
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
 
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robert derrick

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I can see that all your tirades are the result of failure to actually read things correctly.....you see what you want to see, and off you go and babble on about what you assume to be true, rather than what is actual truth. All that effort to prove that you are completely incorrect about everything to say about us.....you have a comprehension problem and see yourself as some kind of vigilante.

It's not possible to reason with someone like you. I don't believe you know how to actually understand someone that disagrees with you, much less make any sense.

Adults know how to have a disagreement with getting enraged over it.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

I've seen this kind of senselessness from you before.
I feel sorry for you....you have such hatred for people you do not even know.
One thing is for sure, I know I don't want to know you.

Next time, I'll have to report you for inflammatory remarks about my character and motives.

Disagreement is one thing, but wasting my time is inexcusable.
 
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WPM

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1000 years is actually a day to the Lord.

Mathew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.


Going to be nice having the Lord reign on earth for that 1000 years.


2 Peter 3
King James Version
3 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

2 Peter 3:8 does not in any way indicate a future earthly millennium kingdom anywhere in this reading. In fact, Peter is simply reminding the end-time scoffers that time is absolutely nothing to the king of glory; He ultimately sits outside of time in the realm of eternity. Time is but a blink to His infinite mind and to the eternal state. God is “from everlasting” (Habakkuk 1:12, Psalm 93:2). This isn't rocket science. It is simple, accurate and contextual.
 

WPM

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Where do you get Rev 20 is the only Scriptural source of Christ's Millennium?

And you don't even believe that part.

I believe God writes Scripture in such a way as to take the crafty in their own craftiness, when purposely mishandling His word.

That's why I believe He wrote the thousand years 6 times in 7 verses of Rev 20, just to show who doesn't take Him nor His words literally, when they want to prophecy something other than His word.

Your prophecy of the future, without Christ's thousand years of ruling them on earth, is false prophecy.

Revelation 17:12 tells us: the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.”

Re the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12, is that sixty minutes?
 

robert derrick

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Since this is something we do not believe,
If you weren't so enraged by people disagreeing with you, then you might be able to comprehend what they are saying.



I feel sorry for you....you have such hatred for people you do not even know.
One warning only. Next time I report you for inflammatory accusations against my character.

You amils certainly share the same characteristic in getting personal with others.

When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.