Not a sinner.

Behold · Jul 3, 2020

Josho said:
@Behold we are made righteous through Jesus Christ, God is gracious and forgiving.

But it still doesn't mean we have a license to sin.

The terms :

1. Cheap Grace
2. Licence to sin
3. Easy Believism
4. OSAS

These "bumpersticker" terms were created by the Devil, who used HIS people to spread them, in an effort to castigate The Grace of God, that is a "gift", and is not earned or kept,... = to be thought of as "too easy", so that can't be right, the devil teaches.
Its a deceptive trick of the devil to try to get you to think that God's Grace , once it has saved you by the Blood of Jesus, is really JUST THAT SIMPLE and FREE...How can that be TRUE???? The devil will teach you.
The Devil wants to miscast GRACE as "license" and "cheap", so that he can inflame self righteousness in a person, and have them trying to stay saved by self effort.
See, once you lose faith that the Blood of Jesus is ALL that God offers to take you and keep you.... then you are ruined in your faith, for life, in most cases. You'll end up worrying you can "lose your salvation" and once Satan has you in that mental place, you'll only see salvation as what you do to keep from losing it. = Faith ruined.
See, The Devil tries to ruin you, by creating the idea that the FREE GIFT of SALVATION< is "cheap grace" and a "license to sin".
He wants you to think you can lose your salvation, so that you'll spend your life in the bondage of trying to not lose it.
He has a lot of working on all Christian Fourms , trying to make you believe it.
He has thousands of Preachers in Pulpits teaching his lies.

Many are deceived by these bumperstickers that i listed.
Dont' be one of those.
And regarding me..... For reference, read anything i ever write as a Thread or post.
I never suggest that the Grace of God, is "yippeee, now i can sin and its not really sin....= show me the HOOKERS and the PORN and the fornication and the LUST coz now im free to SIN !!".
No.
Not quite.
See, its true that all your sin is on Jesus and all His Righteousness is who you are "in Christ".
But if you abuse the Grace of God, if you live a carnal life on purpose, then you'll get run over by Hebrews 12:6.
And you'll get run over by the law of "sowing and Reaping".
Paul teaches in Romans that if you live in sin, and wont come out, and are born again, you will DIE.
You can't abuse the Grace of God to live carnally, and the wonder is....once you see that all your sin, including future carnal deeds are already forgiven on the Cross, 2000 yrs ago......this revelation does not lead you to sin, it leads you to HOLINESS and perfected discipleship.
Its when you can't believe that all your sin is Gone, that you will repent and confess, and sin more.
But once you believe RIGHT about God's Grace and the Blood Atonement, this FREES you, to live Holy.

Josho · Jul 3, 2020

Behold said:
You can't abuse the Grace of God to live carnally

That's what I mean.

GodsGrace · Jul 3, 2020

Behold said:
If you are repenting and confessing, you are out of the will of God.
Try not to stay there.

The above is for @justbyfaith but let me say that you're right about repenting.
We only need to repent ONE TIME.

The reason many say repent is because they confuse this word with the word CONTRITE, or CONTRITION, or FEEL SORRY FOR. So, I think some allowance has to be made for this....the word repent is used incorrectly to mean to be sorry for.

As to confessing....
I do agree that Jesus forgave all sins on the cross: past, present and future.

HOWEVER, we are told that it is necessary to confess our sins.
Even if we don't really understand why,,,we should do what Jesus and other writers tell us to do.

Proverbs 28:31
Whoever conceals his transgressions will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will obtain mercy.

Acts 19:18
Also many of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices.

John 20:24
“Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.” ...

Matthew 3:6
And they were baptized by him in the river Jordan, confessing their sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How do you come to the conclusion that we are not to ask God's forgiveness when we sin?
Any scripture for this?

GodsGrace · Jul 3, 2020

Behold said:
Im also not a Catholic.
So....the answer is...
Its Because Nicodemus says....>"how can i go back into my mother's womb". = He understood that born the first time was the water breaking and the baby came out.
This was his response to "you must be .... BORN.......again.....or one more time.
Nicodemus was not understanding that Jesus meant "spiritual birth" = #2 birth, and replied "how can i come out of the womb a second time".
Born once on Earth, and BORN AGAIN into God's Spirit, is what Jesus was talking about...
Nicodemus only understood "birth" as "womb birth".

I agree and the above really helped me a lot to understand being born again.
However, those that believe it means baptism have good reason to.
This is not something I like to debate...let each one believe what he will.

Its So amazing that "scholars" who have more degrees then a Thermometer, can't just read what the man says.
Also, the idea of "water baptism" being salvation, comes from a devil corrupted Latin Manuscript that created the Catholic Bible.
In the text that was used to create the Catholic Bible, the translator knowingly mistranslated "born again" as "born again BY water".
= Baptismal regeneration, = HERESY.

??
I have catholic bibles in two languages.
They are exactly the same as ours (except for the 6 extra books).
Which version says "born again BY WATER"?

So, that is why the Catholics are all about the water and the sprinkling.
A devil led Translator gave them a bible that ruined their understanding of "born again", and nearly every other doctrine that Paul teaches.
Catholics are a victim of their bible, that they were not even allowed to read, till 1961.
Imagine a cult that tells you....."don't read the word of God",.. just come to US and we will tell you what to BELIEVE.

I don't know how you describe a cult, but the CC is NOT a cult.
It's a church that we don't fully agree with...
I don't know of a church you might fully agree with.
However, you're right about the rest of what you stated.

So, this cult has them praying to dead people who are referred to by the CC as "saints".
This cult has them twisting beads and doing penance.
It has them believing that if the were sprinkled by the city water system, then all is well between them and God as long as they keep going to "confession" and doing "penance" and "dying in a state of Grace".
Mary as the Queen of Heaven. (face palm).
The list is so long.......and its so sad, because, its nearly impossible for a Catholic to even consider that something is very wrong, and even then, they are so mind controlled...........

I don't think you've been to a catholic church in a long time or know what they teach.
They do not teach praying to saints....but also do not discourage it.

The twisting of the beads is true but there's a reason for this. Back before person could read
or had schooling, they were ignorant and this was a good way to teach them about Jesus. The beads in between tell the story of The Christ, and different stories (5 of them) every day of the week. This was their catechism and Sunday School.

Sprinkling by the water system: Not always were the first Christians immersed in water.
The Apostolic fathers gave instruction on how to be baptized:
By full immersion if possible.
By sprinkling if necessary in cold water.

Catholics are now taught that they must believe and trust in Jesus...it's just that not all of them understand this...not all of them are saved just because they go to church...the same as for Protestant churches, except those that go to Protestant churches are more sincere in their faith.

As to Mary....I think we need to honor her highly,,,but the CC does go a bit too far.
I believe this Pope has halted this to some degree.

There are born again Catholics...don't doubt it.

farouk · Jul 3, 2020

GodsGrace said:
I agree and the above really helped me a lot to understand being born again.
However, those that believe it means baptism have good reason to.
This is not something I like to debate...let each one believe what he will.

??
I have catholic bibles in two languages.
They are exactly the same as ours (except for the 6 extra books).
Which version says "born again BY WATER"?

I don't know how you describe a cult, but the CC is NOT a cult.
It's a church that we don't fully agree with...
I don't know of a church you might fully agree with.
However, you're right about the rest of what you stated.

I don't think you've been to a catholic church in a long time or know what they teach.
They do not teach praying to saints....but also do not discourage it.

The twisting of the beads is true but there's a reason for this. Back before person could read
or had schooling, they were ignorant and this was a good way to teach them about Jesus. The beads in between tell the story of The Christ, and different stories (5 of them) every day of the week. This was their catechism and Sunday School.

Sprinkling by the water system: Not always were the first Christians immersed in water.
The Apostolic fathers gave instruction on how to be baptized:
By full immersion if possible.
By sprinkling if necessary in cold water.

Catholics are now taught that they must believe and trust in Jesus...it's just that not all of them understand this...not all of them are saved just because they go to church...the same as for Protestant churches, except those that go to Protestant churches are more sincere in their faith.

As to Mary....I think we need to honor her highly,,,but the CC does go a bit too far.
I believe this Pope has halted this to some degree.

There are born again Catholics...don't doubt it.

@GodsGrace John chapter 3 is a really great passage about the new birth!

GodsGrace · Jul 3, 2020

farouk said:
@GodsGrace John chapter 3 is a really great passage about the new birth!

I agree.
Did it help you to understand about the two births?
It made it perfectly clear to me.

farouk · Jul 3, 2020

GodsGrace said:
I agree.
Did it help you to understand about the two births?
It made it perfectly clear to me.

The natural and the spiritual...are the two types of birth...

Behold · Jul 3, 2020

Josho said:
That's what I mean.

Let me show you this...
This is how CLEVER the Devil is...

JUDE teaches, that in his time, which is the time of the Apostles, the devil created the idea and spread it... that if you teach Grace as "free gift", that you dont earn it and you dont keep it, you RECEIVE IT< as a ETERNAL GIFT.. "The gift of Salvation".. "The Gift of Righteousness".
In other words..... being made acceptable to God and KEPT this way, eternally, (Eternal life)..... The devil in Jude's day taught.. that If you believe that God keeps you saved and you are not to do it by self effort.... then that is "license to sin".
The KJV term is licentiousness...
What the devil did, was create the false idea and demonic doctrine that "Grace"... if understood as saved and kept saved by God...., and this is a GIFT from GOD... that this is teaching that you can do what you want .
See what He did?
He twisted Grace into "license".

So, for 2000 yrs, the Devil has been misrepresenting God's Grace...as = "that teaching is license to sin".

They accused Paul of teaching that we should sin so that Grace would come and cover it..
That is how twisted the Devil has made the understanding of Grace, for 2ooo yrs.
The Devil hates Grace.
He does not want you to be FREE.
He want you to be under the FALSE responsibility of making sure YOU GET YOURSELF TO HEAVEN, which you can't do, and that is the worst part of the lie.
Satan does not want you to know or believe that God is going to get you there through the Blood of Jesus and not because you are good or bad, but ONLY because God has accepted you based on God's Blood being your Atonement.
The devil will do anything to keep you from understanding this fact of God's Grace.

The devil wants you to believe that Grace.... that is God's gift of making you accepted in His family thru the Cross, that He does for you.... The devil wants you to think that this is "cheap grace' and "License".....so, that you wont believe that God has you and keeps you, forever.
The devil wants you bound and tied up inside a mental straightjacket of trying to abide and endure and keep commandments TRYING to keep your salvation, thinking that you have to do all that to "stay saved".

Because once you understand that God has you and God will keep you no matter what, you will stop sinning and stop the lifelong EFFORT to try to be good enough for God to have you.
The Devil wants you to think and believe that you have to EARN GRACE and KEEP IT., or certainly you have to by self effort, keep yourself saved.
This lie has been going on since the Cross was raised and God as Jesus hung on it.
This lie is the #1 fight you have on Christian forums and this lie is taught in thousands of pulpits in every STATE and in every Country.
Its the devil's lie, and its a powerful lie because it feeds a person's self righteousness.
Its the perfect lie.

Behold · Jul 3, 2020

GodsGrace said:
The above is for @justbyfaith

If you are born again, you dont have any sin.
Jesus has them all.
Tomorrow's included.
The only way you could have sin, is to be a sinner, and you can't be the righteousness of God in Christ, and also be a sinner.
Decide which you are....
God does not live in a "sinner".
He lives in a "saint", the bride of Christ.
The Holy Spirit and sin, cannot exist together.
There is no sin in the born again, for the same reason there is no sin in Heaven.
God does not exit where sin is FOUND.
Christ is GOD, and He is in you, "Christ in you the hope of Glory" because in you is no sin FOUND.
Where is your sin? Its on Jesus, on the Cross.
Its 2000 yrs ago GONE.

God "made you righteous" and then God came to live in you because you are, and will remain so.
If you were not, He would not be in you.
There is no Sin "IN CHRIST".
"As Jesus IS....so are the born again, in this world".
Is Jesus a sinner?
Better read that verse a few times then...

if you will read a bit more of what John teaches, you'll read that He says you can't sin, because the seed of God remains in you. (born again).

So, you have .."if we say we have no sin"..and a few verses later....."you, we, the born again, can't sin".

This is not a contradiction, this is simply a misunderstanding that most Christians have regarding those verses.
That verse says "if WE say, WE have no sin".
John has no sin.
So, until you understand that he doesn't yet says "we", then later says..>"the born again can't sin"..., you will continue to think you are a sinner.
You're not.
You dont have sin, Jesus has them.
WHat you do, is commit carnal deeds, or what Paul defines as "works of the flesh".

If you are born again, you are the rightouesness of God in Christ because Jesus became your sin on the Cross.

That who you are.
Not a sinner.

Behold · Jul 3, 2020

[QUOTE="GodsGrace, post: 780045, member: 7593"
I have catholic bibles in two languages.
They are exactly the same as ours (except for the 6 extra books).
Which version says "born again BY WATER"?
I don't know how you describe a cult, but the CC is NOT a cult.
It's a church that we don't fully agree with...
I don't know of a church you might fully agree with.
However, you're right about the rest of what you stated.
I don't think you've been to a catholic church in a long time or know what they teach.
They do not teach praying to saints....but also do not discourage it.
The twisting of the beads is true but there's a reason for this. Back before person could read
or had schooling, they were ignorant and this was a good way to teach them about Jesus. The beads in between tell the story of The Christ, and different stories (5 of them) every day of the week. This was their catechism and Sunday School.
Catholics are now taught that they must believe and trust in Jesus...it's just that not all of them understand this...not all of them are saved just because they go to church...the same as for Protestant churches, except those that go to Protestant churches are more sincere in their faith.
As to Mary....I think we need to honor her highly,,,but the CC does go a bit too far.
I believe this Pope has halted this to some degree.
There are born again Catholics...don't doubt it.[/QUOTE]

??
""""""""""""I have catholic bibles in two languages.
They are exactly the same as ours (except for the 6 extra books).
Which version says "born again BY WATER"?"""""""

Douah Rheims

[5] Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, = unless a man be born again of water

Can you read ?
Then read this.. "Born again OF = water".

Understand?
Thats a LIE.
We are not born again OF WATER.
We are born again by the spirit of God, thru the blood of Jesus by FAITH.
JUSTIFICATION BY FAITH..

"""""""""I don't know how you describe a cult, but the CC is NOT a cult.
It's a church that we don't fully agree with...
I don't know of a church you might fully agree with.
However, you're right about the rest of what you stated."""""""""""

The Catholic Cult is a cult.
Most of its doctrines are blasphemy.
Most of its members are washed in water and still unsaved.

I don't think you've been to a catholic church in a long time or know what they teach.
They do not teach praying to saints....but also do not discourage it.

A member here in the last 2 days, who is a Catholic, told us all that she prays to Catholic Saints.
Is told to do it by her Catholic Priest.
Go and find my Thread on "Saints", and you'll read her Catholic CULT posts.

'""""""The twisting of the beads is true but there's a reason for this. Back before person could read
or had schooling, they were ignorant and this was a good way to teach them about Jesus. The beads in between tell the story of The Christ, and different stories (5 of them) every day of the week. This was their catechism and Sunday School.""""""

So, if you are a 98 yr old Catholic and twisting beads, including the Pope and priest.??//
C'mon.

"""""""Catholics are now taught that they must believe and trust in Jesus...it's just that not all of them understand this...not all of them are saved just because they go to church...the same as for Protestant churches, except those that go to Protestant churches are more sincere in their faith."""""

If you read Catholic Doctrine, you'll discover that the teaching is that.."if you say that salvation of the soul is only gained by the teaching of Justification by Faith, in Christ alone...without works...=this teaching is Anathema and the person teaching it is Anathema.
This means that Paul is cursed, and Jesus also, according to the Catholic Cult, as it was Jesus who gave Paul the teaching of Justification by faith, ALONE>

""""""As to Mary....I think we need to honor her highly,,,but the CC does go a bit too far.
I believe this Pope has halted this to some degree.""""

The Pope prays to Mary.
Do you?
I hope not.

justbyfaith · Jul 3, 2020

Behold said:
If you are repenting and confessing, you are out of the will of God.
Try not to stay there.

If you have sinned, the prescribed remedy is to repent and confess your sin.

The way to get out of that is not to stop repenting and confessing; but to stop sinning.

Behold said:
= Baptismal regeneration, = HERESY.

Not necessarily; for there is a promise in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, Colossians 2:12, Romans 6:1-4, and 1 Peter 3:20-21.

Which is not to say that you must be baptized in order to be saved...while it is to say that there is a promise of salvation associated with water baptism.

Behold said:
2. Licence to sin

Yes, in the NIV in Jude 1:3-4, it is indeed written that there would come false teachers in the last days who would teach grace as a license for immorality.

Behold said:
If you are born again, you dont have any sin.

Here is, again, a denial of 1 John 1:8.

Behold said:
So, you have .."if we say we have no sin"..and a few verses later....."you, we, the born again, can't sin".

This is not a contradiction, this is simply a misunderstanding that most Christians have regarding those verses.
That verse says "if WE say, WE have no sin".
John has no sin.

That we have sin does not necessarily mean that we have to sin; for the element of sin can be rendered dead within us (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over our behaviour.

John clearly teaches that he has sin in 1 John 1:8; and that if he were to deny the reality of indwelling sin, he would be deceiving himself and the truth would not be in him.

Behold · Jul 3, 2020

justbyfaith said:
If you have sinned, the prescribed remedy is to repent and confess your sin.

The way to get out of that is not to stop repenting and confessing; but to stop sinning.

And how many years are you now saved, and are still sinning and repenting?
How many? over 20? 30?
Yet, you are an authority on how to stop, now?

I think you should study more and learn some.
Start with my Threads.

You want to play the teacher here, but you can't even stop sinning.
So who can you help? NOBODY.
You waste believers time with your junk, justbyfaith.
They dont need that...
And dont come now and say you have stopped sinning, because you have not, as you'd just have to confess that one also, according to your self saving theology of : "reject Paul and only believe 1John 1..

Get real at some point, and stop the pretending.
All you do is cause chaos on this forum.
You should Stop.

justbyfaith · Jul 3, 2020

Behold said:
And how many years are you now saved, and are still sinning and repenting?
How many? over 20? 30?
Yet, you are an authority on how to stop, now?

I've told you practically a million times (of course I'm exaggerating) that my walk with Christ is one of general freedom and victory.

Behold said:
You want to play the teacher here, but you can't even stop sinning.

I have indeed repented of my sins.

Behold said:
You waste believers time with your junk, justbyfaith.
They dont need that...

I am giving them the word of the Lord on these forums; but you want to be the monopoly of a teacher here so you disparage every other teacher.

Now I have said that you even have some good things to say. But when it comes to your heretical stance against 1 John 1:8, I have to speak up.

You are the one teaching junk and the problem is that you are putting some truth in with it, so that it is harder to spot. The devil will give you a drink of 99% milk, with 1% arsenic, to poison you. This is how false teaching operates.

The problem with your denial of the reality of 1 John 1:8 is, that it's a doozy. Those who believe you will find that they are deceiving themselves, and the truth is not in them. And they may not even realize it although it will be the case.

Behold said:
And dont come now and say you have stopped sinning, because you have not, as you'd just have to confess that one also, according to your self saving theology of : "reject Paul and only believe 1John 1..

Get real at some point, and stop the pretending.
All you do is cause chaos on this forum.
You should Stop.

What makes you think that I haven't stopped sinning; but you have?

I think that you are going based on your own experience that you haven't stopped sinning and it is on this experience that you base your contention that I haven't stopped sinning.

But I have.

Am I saying that I'm sinless? Obviously not. I have indwelling sin; but because I am sanctified it is rendered dead within me (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any say over my behaviour.

But as long as I abide in Christ, I sin not. And this is what the Bible teaches (1 John 3:6). And also, if I do the will of the Lord, I will abide for ever. And this is also what the Bible teaches (1 John 2:17).

The anointing teaches me to abide in Him (1 John 2:27-28).

I abide, not by sinning not. That is only the outflow of abiding. I abide by faith (see Romans 14:23).

GodsGrace · Jul 5, 2020

Behold said:
If you are born again, you dont have any sin.
Jesus has them all.
Tomorrow's included.
The only way you could have sin, is to be a sinner, and you can't be the righteousness of God in Christ, and also be a sinner.

Very good and correct point.
But the statement that we do not have any sin goes against what John taught and He spent years with Jesus,,,we didn't.

He says in 1 John 1:8 that if we say we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
John goes on to say in verse 9 that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

This goes directly against two of the teachings you push which are not in line with John.

1. We DO have sin...we have sin every time we sin. We are not sinless.

2. We DO need to confess our sins...we may not understand why, but God does say this throughout the bible.
We should follow all of Jesus' commandments....not just those we like.

Just lost my whole post....
Cannot redo.
But the above is sufficient.
Faith Alone is not enough.
This is NOT what Jesus taught.
If you think it is,,,please post some verses.

justbyfaith · Jul 5, 2020

GodsGrace said:
Faith Alone is not enough.

"We are saved by faith alone; but faith that saves is never alone" ---a famous quote.

GodsGrace · Jul 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
"We are saved by faith alone; but faith that saves is never alone" ---a famous quote.

That would be James' verse....
James 2:17
17Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

Faith without works/good deeds, is a dead faith. A faith that
is of no use to anyone.

So many verses on doing good,,,on being moral,,,
how could anyone overlook them?

All of the writers taught about morality and how we are to behave.
I can't think of one that said all we have to do is believe...
which is interesting anyway,,,because believe includes obedience.

Many churches are teaching Faith Alone to boost their attendance.
It sounds so easy and so good.

Unfortunately, it's not true to the Word of God and what Jesus taught...

justbyfaith · Jul 6, 2020

GodsGrace said:
I can't think of one that said all we have to do is believe...

Romans 4:5-6 (1-8), Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 (4-7)

John 5:24, John 6:47.

justbyfaith · Jul 6, 2020

GodsGrace said:
which is interesting anyway,,,because believe includes obedience.

Believing produces an obedient heart.

It does not include obedience; otherwise we are saved by works when we are saved by faith (which Ephesians 2:8-9 denies).

But faith is an attitude of surrender that produces works when it is alive in you.

You are not saved by the works produced; but by the faith that produces them.

The works do not have any salvation value.

Only the faith does.

Joseph77 · Jul 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
Romans 4:5-6 (1-8), Ephesians 2:8-9, Titus 3:5 (4-7)

John 5:24, John 6:47.

Is any of those reference different than the believing that demons do ? They believe, and shudder in terror, knowing their judgment is certain and soon.
Same with some people - they believe, and might be afraid like m.theresa was, always, or might be non-chalant about everything , not knowing that they are doomed ?

Joseph77 · Jul 6, 2020

justbyfaith said:
The works do not have any salvation value.

Only the faith does.

Here's a kind of example , perhaps:
A successful healer told people after testing them what to do to be healed. In particular instances, take vitamin A. Testing showed that they were severely deficient.
Those people who had faith in him, who believed him, and who took vitamin A recovered their health perfectly - no problems.
Those people who had faith in him, who believed him, but they did not take vitamin A, got sicker and died.

Whose works saved them from dying - whose works restored their health ?

Even with faith in him, even believing him, those who did not do as he said perished, just as they were told would happen ....

Not a sinner.

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