Israel is the focus of the millennium

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi all,

I personally believe, because of the scriptures in the latter part of Ezekiel, that the nation of Israel will be restored in and dominate the millennium. I also believe they will be put back under the law and the knowledge of Christ as savior will be withheld from them. It is only at the end of the thousand years, when they are about to be destroyed, that they will finally realize they crucified their Messiah.

One of the main fallacies that end time people make is that they try to cram too much into a short period of time...many times all within 7 years. A great deal of the scriptures apply either to the millennium or to the New Heavens and New Earth. This is one of the main factors that makes people's time lines inconsistant.

 

[John_8:32]

Hi all,

I personally believe, because of the scriptures in the latter part of Ezekiel, that the nation of Israel will be restored in and dominate the millennium.

Yep, that is true.

I also believe they will be put back under the law

Who says the law is not in force now?

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

and the knowledge of Christ as savior will be withheld from them. It is only at the end of the thousand years, when they are about to be destroyed, that they will finally realize they crucified their Messiah.

Isa 2:2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
Isa 2:3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zec 8:23 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Zec 12:7 The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

One of the main fallacies that end time people make is that they try to cram too much into a short period of time...many times all within 7 years. A great deal of the scriptures apply either to the millennium or to the New Heavens and New Earth. This is one of the main factors that makes people's time lines inconsistant.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Justin Mangonel.

Hi all,

I personally believe, because of the scriptures in the latter part of Ezekiel, that the nation of Israel will be restored in and dominate the millennium. I also believe they will be put back under the law and the knowledge of Christ as savior will be withheld from them. It is only at the end of the thousand years, when they are about to be destroyed, that they will finally realize they crucified their Messiah.

One of the main fallacies that end time people make is that they try to cram too much into a short period of time...many times all within 7 years. A great deal of the scriptures apply either to the millennium or to the New Heavens and New Earth. This is one of the main factors that makes people's time lines inconsistant.

Well, you're right about the nation of Isra'el being restored and being the dominant nation during the Millennium (because it will be the Messiah's Kingdom), but you are not quite right about them being "back under the Law." They already ARE "under the Torah!" However, we ALL are! You know that we all still keep the 10 commandments (more or less), right? We certainly know that one should not steal and that one should not kill and that one should not commit adultery. Some of the others, such as keeping the Shabbat (Sabbath), may be minimized today, but they won't be in the future! For instance,...

Isaiah 66:22-23
22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
KJV

However, we won't be keeping the Torah to satisfy the Law; Yeshua` already satisfied the requirements of the Torah! Furthermore, we have this passage:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord; for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
KJV

 

[Justin Mangonel]

How do you then explain the latter chapters of Ezekiel?

 

[MTPockets]

Hi all,

I personally believe, because of the scriptures in the latter part of Ezekiel, that the nation of Israel will be restored in and dominate the millennium. I also believe they will be put back under the law and the knowledge of Christ as savior will be withheld from them. It is only at the end of the thousand years, when they are about to be destroyed, that they will finally realize they crucified their Messiah.

One of the main fallacies that end time people make is that they try to cram too much into a short period of time...many times all within 7 years. A great deal of the scriptures apply either to the millennium or to the New Heavens and New Earth. This is one of the main factors that makes people's time lines inconsistant.

Hi! 'Justin Mangonel'
I cringed when reading your shameless claim that the "nation of Israel will be restored in and dominate the millennium".
Israel "after the flesh" is as much dead in sin as any Gentile ... or any Muslim ... and as anyone else who insists to deny the gift of God as pronounced by our Lord Jesus.

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi MT,

Cringe all your like but the fact remains is that the end of the book of Ezekiel shows exactly that. They do not have the knowledge of Christ and are put back under that law for about a thousand years.

 

[John_8:32]

Hi MT,

Cringe all your like but the fact remains is that the end of the book of Ezekiel shows exactly that. They do not have the knowledge of Christ and are put back under that law for about a thousand years.

Ezekiel 40 through 48 shows that there will be a Temple built and that there will be sacrifices again in the Millenium. Why? Because those living in a perfect society will still have to learn that sin requires blood...

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

These humans will still need a schoolmaster to bring them to Christ...

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

This was the law that was added...

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.

But they did not obey and neither do we obey perfectly. We still sin and...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

so the animal sacrifices were the shadow of the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ to atone for sin. These people in the Millenium will still be human and still sin and they will have to understand that as Heb 9:22 says, sin requires blood.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Justin Mangonel.

How do you then explain the latter chapters of Ezekiel?

It's simple really. The Jews will build a third Temple. When Yeshua` returns, He will either renovate the existing Temple (IF it still exists) or He will design and build yet a FOURTH Temple. It is this renovated THIRD Temple or the FOURTH Temple that is described in detail in Ezekiel 40-48. It's really that simple.

Many will balk at the need for animal sacrifices because Yeshua` sacrificed His own body on the cross and shed His blood for the remission of our sins. I don't deny that at all! HOWEVER, they haven't studied out the need for the animal sacrifices as demanded in the Torah. Some of them are PURELY for FOOD, particularly for the tribe of Leviy (pronounced "lay-VEE" in Ashkenazi Hebrew or "LAY-vee" in Sephardic, btw). God loves a good "cook out!" He loves the smell of fat upon the altar, just as He loves a good camping trip every year (the Feast of Tabernacles or Booths known in Jewish circles as Sukkot, pronounced "soo-COAT")!

Leviticus 3:14-16
14 And he shall offer thereof his offering, even an offering made by fire unto the Lord; the fat that covereth the inwards, and all the fat that is upon the inwards,
15 And the two kidneys, and the fat that is upon them, which is by the flanks, and the caul above the liver, with the kidneys, it shall he take away.
16 And the priest shall burn them upon the altar: it is the food of the offering made by fire for a sweet savour: all the fat is the Lord's.
KJV

Zechariah 14:16-21
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowl's before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
KJV

Shalom, MTPockets.

Hi! 'Justin Mangonel'
I cringed when reading your shameless claim that the "nation of Israel will be restored in and dominate the millennium".
Israel "after the flesh" is as much dead in sin as any Gentile ... or any Muslim ... and as anyone else who insists to deny the gift of God as pronounced by our Lord Jesus.

And, you don't know about what the nation of Isra'el means to God and to His Son, Yeshua` haMashiach. It WILL be restored and dominate the Millennium, not because of anything they do, but for the sakes of the Patriarchs! We would expect to find Avraham, Yitschaq, and Ya`aqov (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) in the Millennium, but therefore we should also expect to find all of their children there, as well! If there's one word that sums up the Jewish faith, it's "FAMILY!" They are "MISHPACHAH (Hebrew for 'family')!"

Some people will accidentally mispronounce a word by putting the accent on the wrong syllable. I remember a time in my childhood when I read a whole chapter of a book pronouncing the word as "thermo-ME-ter." At the end, the teacher praised my choice for the book and the way I read with good intonation, expressing feeling. Then, she added, "Oh and by the way, it's 'ther-MOM-eter.'" I was so embarrassed!

The same thing can happen when one reads through a chapter of the Bible and puts the emphasis on the wrong words, giving an unintended meaning to the passage. Romans 11 is one such chapter. The emphasis should be put on the highlighted portions shown below:

Romans 11:11-29
11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
KJV

 

[Justin Mangonel]

Hi Retro,

I really don't think there is anyway to get around the notion that it talks about sin offerings.

"During the seven days of the festival, which begins in the seventh month on the fifteenth day, he is to make the same provision for sin offerings, burnt offerings, grain offerings and oil."

That is just not compatible with the knowledge of the sacrifice that the true Lamb of God made. I know that the priests were allowed to live off of different portions of the sacrifices but that was not their primary intent.

This is the reason that I believe that the knowledge of Christ is withheld from Israel in the millennium. I think that Israel keeps the law this time and then at the end of the 1000 years they come to the place they should have been at during Christ's first coming. The only difference is that, like Israel at the river Jordan for a second time, they have now allowed the Law to be a school master and it has prepared them to receive Jesus as their Messiah

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Justin Mangonel.

Hi Retro,

I really don't think there is anyway to get around the notion that it talks about sin offerings.

"During the seven days of the festival, which begins in the seventh month on the fifteenth day, he is to make the same provision for sin offerings, burnt offerings, grain offerings and oil."

That is just not compatible with the knowledge of the sacrifice that the true Lamb of God made. I know that the priests were allowed to live off of different portions of the sacrifices but that was not their primary intent.

This is the reason that I believe that the knowledge of Christ is withheld from Israel in the millennium. I think that Israel keeps the law this time and then at the end of the 1000 years they come to the place they should have been at during Christ's first coming. The only difference is that, like Israel at the river Jordan for a second time, they have now allowed the Law to be a school master and it has prepared them to receive Jesus as their Messiah

Well, actually the "sin offering" was not an offering for sin, but the "burnt offering" was, but since it is mentioned, too, perhaps John_8:32 is right.

 

[Thegoodground]

Hi Retro,

This is the reason that I believe that the knowledge of Christ is withheld from Israel in the millennium.

Hi Justin,

Lets open the Word for the answer:

The below text forms the words of Elijah as he calls to the scattered Israelites to return to the land. Many will not want to come!

Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I(God) am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

The reason only one of a city and two of a family make it to Zion is due to God purging the dross from Israel as the come through the wilderness of the peoples back to the Holy Land. While this work has begun it will be Elijah who will restore "all things" concerning Israel and the Lord Jesus Christ.

And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Here are the saints and their work to minister the Gospel to those refined Isaerlites coming back into the land. (Christ is already with Judah and the land of Israel is being restored in preapartion for thier return.

And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more,

A period of replenshing the ground through agriculture....BUT what will the say when the land is giving its yield?

The ark of the covenant of the LORD:

Why should they not say the ark of the convenant?

neither shall it come to mind:

Why wont it come to mind?

neither shall they remember it;

not even remember it?

either shall they visit

Why?

it; neither shall that be done any more.

Why?

At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. (Jer 3:14-17)

There is only one reason alone for why the ark will not even be mention, no not one word at all!

Christ is now dwelling in the midst of them as their King, their High Preist which is after another order.

So in short...Yes Judah and Israel will become one and together appoint Christ their King and the saints shall rule over the natural house of Israel, but this is not the end.

TGG

 

[tgwprophet]

Salvation is through Jesus, we know this and is proven becasue we believe in Jesus. Lets allow this knowledge in our understanding of when the Jews accept Jesus. When we do this we find that Jesus returns to prove to the Jews that acceptance of Jesus gives Salavation. To Say that Jesus saves the Jews before they accept Jesus is to say Jesus provides salvation before one accepts him as Messiah.
This is why i admantly believe the Jews are NOT saved after the 1000 years, but rather just prior to Armageddon.

 

[tgwprophet]

And as far as sacrifices as sin atonement... Jesus paid for our sins past present and future, i cannot believe the Son of God's blood has any expiration date. Now, once we are in the presence of Jesus, shall we not also be in the presence of God?

 

[Justin Mangonel]

TGG,

You are totally reading into those scriptures what you want them to say...I am sorry but you are really off the mark.

You cannot have sin sacrifice and have the knowledge of Jesus.

 

[Trekson]

The problem is believing Ez. 40-46 are speaking of millennial timing when they're not. It's speaking of the reclamation of Jerusalem and rebuilding the second temple after the Babylonian captivity. Yes, Ez. 47-48 have millennial significance but's that's all.

 

[John_8:32]

The problem is believing Ez. 40-46 are speaking of millennial timing when they're not. It's speaking of the reclamation of Jerusalem and rebuilding the second temple after the Babylonian captivity. Yes, Ez. 47-48 have millennial significance but's that's all.

I would respectfully disagree...

Eze 47:1 Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house stood toward the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south side of the altar.
Eze 47:2 Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the utter gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side.
Eze 47:3 And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles.
Eze 47:4 Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins.
Eze 47:5 Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over.

The further down the river Ezekiel went, the more water there was. This is a miracle in itself.

Eze 47:6 And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen this? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river.
Eze 47:7 Now when I had returned, behold, at the bank of the river were very many trees on the one side and on the other.
Eze 47:8 Then said he unto me, These waters issue out toward the east country, and go down into the desert, and go into the sea: which being brought forth into the sea, the waters shall be healed.
Eze 47:9 And it shall come to pass, that every thing that liveth, which moveth, whithersoever the rivers shall come, shall live: and there shall be a very great multitude of fish, because these waters shall come thither: for they shall be healed; and every thing shall live whither the river cometh.
Eze 47:10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.
Eze 47:11 But the miry places thereof and the marishes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt.
Eze 47:12 And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.

According to vs 2, the water is flowing Eastward, what sea does it come to? The Dead Sea. Now notice vs 8, the Dead Sea has not been healed yet.

Do men fish the Dead Sea today They will..

Eze 47:10 And it shall come to pass, that the fishers shall stand upon it from Engedi even unto Eneglaim; they shall be a place to spread forth nets; their fish shall be according to their kinds, as the fish of the great sea, exceeding many.


This is what happens after...

Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

This does not occur until the Millenium.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, all.

This is the result of confusing "salvation" in the prophecies with the concept of "justification by God." Sorry, but they are NOT synonymous. "Salvation" purely means "rescue" or "deliverance" and in the prophecies is used to describe the future "rescue" or "deliverance" of the nation of Isra'el as a PEOPLE, not as individuals. These verses (such as Isaiah 52:7) are not talking about a personal "justification by God!" Look carefully at Isaiah 52:7:

Isaiah 52:7
How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings,
that publisheth peace;
that bringeth good tidings of good,
that publisheth salvation (rescue);
that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!
KJV

This should be enough of its context to give you an understanding that this verse is not talking about personal "justification by God!" There's a beautiful word picture here that is somewhat lost in translation without an understanding of the culture during the reign of David's dynasty. However, one can pick up on this by the narrative in 2 Samuel 18:

2 Samuel 18:1-33
1 And David numbered the people that were with him, and set captains of thousands and captains of hundreds over them.
2 And David sent forth a third part of the people under the hand of Joab, and a third part under the hand of Abishai the son of Zeruiah (David's sister), Joab's brother, and a third part under the hand of Ittai the Gittite. And the king said unto the people, I will surely go forth with you myself also.
3 But the people answered, Thou shalt not go forth: for if we flee away, they will not care for us; neither if half of us die, will they care for us: but now thou art worth ten thousand of us: therefore now it is better that thou succour us out of the city.
4 And the king said unto them, What seemeth you best I will do. And the king stood by the gate side, and all the people came out by hundreds and by thousands.
5 And the king commanded Joab and Abishai and Ittai, saying, Deal gently for my sake with the young man, even with Absalom. And all the people heard when the king gave all the captains charge concerning Absalom.
6 So the people went out into the field against Israel: and the battle was in the wood of Ephraim;
7 Where the people of Israel were slain before the servants of David, and there was there a great slaughter that day of twenty thousand men.
8 For the battle was there scattered over the face of all the country: and the wood devoured more people that day than the sword devoured.
9 And Absalom met the servants of David. And Absalom rode upon a mule, and the mule went under the thick boughs of a great oak, and his head caught hold of the oak, and he was taken up between the heaven and the earth; and the mule that was under him went away.
10 And a certain man saw it, and told Joab, and said, Behold, I saw Absalom hanged in an oak.
11 And Joab said unto the man that told him, And, behold, thou sawest him, and why didst thou not smite him there to the ground? and I would have given thee ten shekels of silver, and a girdle (a cloth belt, possibly of honor or rank).
12 And the man said unto Joab, Though I should receive a thousand shekels of silver in mine hand, yet would I not put forth mine hand against the king's son: for in our hearing the king charged thee and Abishai and Ittai, saying, Beware that none touch the young man Absalom.
13 Otherwise I should have wrought falsehood against mine own life: for there is no matter hid from the king, and thou thyself wouldest have set thyself against me.
14 Then said Joab, I may not tarry thus with thee. And he took three darts in his hand, and thrust them through the heart of Absalom, while he was yet alive in the midst of the oak.
15 And ten young men that bare Joab's armour compassed about and smote Absalom, and slew him.
16 And Joab blew the trumpet, and the people returned from pursuing after Israel: for Joab held back the people.
17 And they took Absalom, and cast him into a great pit in the wood, and laid a very great heap of stones upon him: and all Israel fled every one to his tent.
18 Now Absalom in his lifetime had taken and reared up for himself a pillar, which is in the king's dale: for he said, I have no son to keep my name in remembrance: and he called the pillar after his own name: and it is called unto this day, Absalom's place.
19 Then said Ahimaaz the son of Zadok, Let me now run, and bear the king tidings, how that the Lord hath avenged him of his enemies.
20 And Joab said unto him, Thou shalt not bear tidings this day, but thou shalt bear tidings another day: but this day thou shalt bear no tidings, because the king's son is dead.
21 Then said Joab to Cushi, Go tell the king what thou hast seen. And Cushi bowed himself unto Joab, and ran.
22 Then said Ahimaaz the son of Zadok yet again to Joab, But howsoever, let me, I pray thee, also run after Cushi. And Joab said, Wherefore wilt thou run, my son, seeing that thou hast no tidings ready?
23 But howsoever, said he, let me run. And he said unto him, Run. Then Ahimaaz ran by the way of the plain, and overran Cushi.
24 And David sat between the two gates: and the watchman went up to the roof over the gate unto the wall, and lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold a man running alone.
25 And the watchman cried, and told the king. And the king said, If he be alone, there is tidings in his mouth. And he came apace, and drew near.
26 And the watchman saw another man running: and the watchman called unto the porter, and said, Behold another man running alone. And the king said, He also bringeth tidings.
27 And the watchman said, Me thinketh the running of the foremost is like the running of Ahimaaz the son of Zadok. And the king said, He is a good man, and cometh with good tidings.
28 And Ahimaaz called, and said unto the king, All is well. And he fell down to the earth upon his face before the king, and said, Blessed be the Lord thy God, which hath delivered up the men that lifted up their hand against my lord the king.
29 And the king said, Is the young man Absalom safe? And Ahimaaz answered, When Joab sent the king's servant, and me thy servant, I saw a great tumult, but I knew not what it was.
30 And the king said unto him, Turn aside, and stand here. And he turned aside, and stood still.
31 And, behold, Cushi came; and Cushi said, Tidings, my lord the king: for the Lord hath avenged thee this day of all them that rose up against thee.
32 And the king said unto Cushi, Is the young man Absalom safe? And Cushi answered, The enemies of my lord the king, and all that rise against thee to do thee hurt, be as that young man is.
33 And the king was much moved, and went up to the chamber over the gate, and wept: and as he went, thus he said, O my son Absalom, my son, my son Absalom! would God I had died for thee, O Absalom, my son, my son!
KJV

So, Achiyma`ats (Ahimaaz) was a messenger of good news and was a fast runner but Kuwshiy (Cushi), an older man with more tact, was a bearer of bad news and was not as fast a runner as Achiyma`ats. In times of good news, a messenger swift of foot was sent to tell the good news to the king and to the people. In times of bad news, a messenger with a different gait was sent. This is the picture that Yesha`yahu (Isaiah) presented in Isaiah 52:7. A bearer of good news is running along the ridge of the mountains with the good news that rescue has come and God is now reigning!

Sorry, Trekson, but that is NOT about the time after the Captivity to Bavel (Babylon) or Persia. Yesha`yahu is talking about the future restoration of Isra'el.

And, Terry, again this is NOT about personal justification by God! This is about the RESCUE of the Jews! Thus, Yeshua`, the Messiah of God, WILL rescue them when they need Him most! The battle at Har-Meggidown (Armageddon), the Mountain (or Tel) of Megiddo, is where this battle will end! Tel-Megiddo is a few miles southeast of Haifa in Isra'el. The invaders, routed from Yerushalayim and chased over the mountains of Isra'el and from whom the Jews are rescued, will think to take their stand against Him and His army (us) in the Valley of Yizr'a`el (Jezreel) east of Haifa. It is there that the blood will flow to the horses' bridles! I can guarantee you that, whether they believed in Yeshua` as their Messiah or not, THAT DAY they WILL believe! Seeing is believing! They will see the HERO of the prophecies with their own eyes!

John_8:32, you are correct to quote the rest of this passage for Trekson's sake; however, when you said,...

The further down the river Ezekiel went, the more water there was. This is a miracle in itself.

... you forgot about how water behaves and fluid dynamics. Being an engineer, I can tell you that the force of the water's flow and the terrain can make the difference in how the waters pool. It doesn't have to be a miracle (although it could be). We aren't told how fast the water is flowing at its source or downstream. We know that it is flowing in the general direction of east toward the Dead Sea (which will have to be renamed), but we don't know how it will meander around the mountains and hills along the way. Obstructions can cause the waters to slow and pool at various locations before it makes its way to the sea.

 

[Trekson]

Hi John, Your words: "I would respectfully disagree..."

Why? You just agreed with everything I said!!

Your words: "Now notice vs 8, the Dead Sea has not been healed yet."


As soon as the waters from the NJ touches the Dead Sea, it will be healed.

I still don't see where we disagree.

 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, Trekson.

Hi John, Your words: "I would respectfully disagree..."

Why? You just agreed with everything I said!!

Your words: "Now notice vs 8, the Dead Sea has not been healed yet."


As soon as the waters from the NJ touches the Dead Sea, it will be healed.

I still don't see where we disagree.

Well, I can't speak for John, but I disagree with your take that chapters 40-46 are about the second Temple. The second Temple was not built to these specifications, and these specs were in a PROPHECY! They are about a Temple that has never been built! Therefore, chapters 40-48 are ALL about the future.

 

[Trekson]

Hmmm, Could Israel disobey God in the design of their temple? It's possible, however do you have the specs for the second temple for comparison purposes?