Remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy

[gadar perets]

John 5:17

But Jesus answered them, "My Father is at work until now, so I am at work."

John 5:17 refers to spiritual work which is permitted on Sabbath. It does not refer to secular physical work like building bridges, mowing lawns, etc. In context, it refers to Yeshua's work of healing a crippled man. Such work was never forbidden.

When we rest in Christ, it is no longer we who work , but HE who works in and through us.

Can you give me a reference please?

And whether working or at rest we give glory and praise to the Father, through the Son..
And so whether working or at rest the day is Holy, as all creation has been made new....
Welcome to the 8th day

If all creation has been made new, then please explain Paul's words in Romans 8:18-25;

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
​

The fact of the matter is, the old creation still remains. The only things made new are believers in Messiah Yeshua and that only by faith. All days remain as they were, six work days and one day of rest (the 7th day).

As for the "8th day", that is an invention of man. YHWH has given us the pattern of six work days and one rest day. A greater pattern exists whereby man has been given 6,000 years to work and 1,000 years to rest (the Millennium). We are now living in the "last days" (Hebrews 1:2). That is, the last two work days before the Millennial rest begins. Once the Millennium ends ending the greater 7th Day, then perhaps your "8th day" will begin, but Scripture records no such day.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Neither Strong's nor Vine's include "substance" as a meaning of "soma". If there are "scholars" that say it does, it is because they are reading their definition into the word based on their faulty understanding of what Colossians 2:16-17 means. In context, verse 17 refers to the "Body of Messiah" (the Church), not the "substance is Christ".

Every unclean and hateful bird and "fowl came down upon the carcases in the Day of Substance the LORD made Covenant".

In verse 17, in SUBSTANCE of context, "the Body of the Christ, is" -- not '~refers to~'.

In SUBSTANCE, in verse 17, "the Body of the Christ, is The Substance: of the Christ"; "is", from 'estin'; "substance" from 'sohma' in juxtaposition to 'skia' -- "These things are a shadow, BUT the FULFILMENT (of the shadow), is Christ."

Nobody, not I specifically denied though, that "The Body of the Christ" is His Church. The name of the church-body I belong to derives from Colossians 2:16,17, 'Sabbaths' Feast of Christ Home Assemblies Reformed Protestant Faith'.

PS

‘Strong’s’, the Mrs White of modern Christiandom, is not our Bible.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I was replying with your view in mind, not mine. Based on your reply, no one (except Yeshua) will realize the promises. In my view, many (including Yeshua) will realize the promises.

Thanks for being open and straight about it. That clinches the whole deal.

The Lord bless you

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I can't seem to find a verse with the words in purple in it. What verse are you quoting? Please don't tell me Numbers 33:4 since that verse reads, "For the Egyptians buried all their firstborn, which YHWH had smitten among them: upon their gods also YHWH executed judgments." Nothing about midnight. However, even if they did bury their dead at midnight on Abib 15 (a ridiculous notion since they weren't killed until midnight on Abib 15), then the three days of darkness ended long before that.

Not saying Numbers in any way differs, but Exodus 12 to 15, the authentic, earliest, 'live' saga, has one date, "on the fourteenth day of the First Month" that lasted THE, "three days total darkness" of the ninth and tenth plagues so that right through to the third night God still led Israel through the Red Sea INTO and ONTO "the land I promised", with the "Cloud Pillar of Light", that "was Christ".

In ALL Scriptures, including Exodus, the passover was slaughtered "on the fourteenth". Dear Gadar Perets, we cannot get anywhere unless you get this right.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I stand corrected. I phrased my question wrong. I should have wrote, "show me a verse that calls any day other than a holy day a "Sabbath". To call Sunday through Friday "Sabbath days" is just absurd.

All credit deserving.

 

[gadar perets]

Every unclean and hateful bird and "fowl came down upon the carcases in the Day of Substance the LORD made Covenant".

Is that supposed to be a quote of a Bible verse? Where do you come up with these things? The Gerhard Ebersoehn Version?

In verse 17, in SUBSTANCE of context, "the Body of the Christ, is" -- not '~refers to~'.

In SUBSTANCE, in verse 17, "the Body of the Christ, is The Substance: of the Christ"; "is", from 'estin'; "substance" from 'sohma' in juxtaposition to 'skia' -- "These things are a shadow, BUT the FULFILMENT (of the shadow), is Christ."

As you can see by the image below, "estin" refers to "skia" ("is a shadow"). It does NOT refer to "soma" ("is the substance").



"Soma" is not to be read in juxtaposition with "skia". Here is Paul's thought translated correctly;

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath,
Col 2:17 (which are a shadow of things to come), but the Body of Messiah.

"Let no man therefore judge you ... but the Body of Messiah."
​

Paul said we are to judge those within the Body and YHWH will judge those outside the Body (1 Corinthians 5:11-13). The context of Colossians 2 shows Paul coming against outsiders (philosophers, deceivers, those exalting their man made traditions, idolaters who worship angels, and those who do not have Messiah Yeshua as their head. We are not to allow such outsiders to judge us concerning eating, drinking, holy days (Feast Days), new moons, and/or Sabbaths. Only those within the Body of Messiah can judge us in such matters. For example, a modern day Jew has no right to tell you how to keep Shabbat.

The word "soma" is nowhere in Scripture translated "substance" or "fulfillment" or "reality". However, notice Colossians 1:18 & 24 and Colossians 2:19, all of which teach us that the Body (soma) of Messiah is the church or all true believers. Colossians 2:17 is sandwiched in between those verses because Paul is laying out his teaching concerning believers (the Church/Body of Messiah). In Colossians 2:19, only two verses later, the unbelievers are said to not exalt the "Head" (Yeshua) to which the same "Body" of verse 17 is joined.

 

[gadar perets]

Not saying Numbers in any way differs, but Exodus 12 to 15, the authentic, earliest, 'live' saga, has one date, "on the fourteenth day of the First Month" that lasted THE, "three days total darkness" of the ninth and tenth plagues so that right through to the third night God still led Israel through the Red Sea INTO and ONTO "the land I promised", with the "Cloud Pillar of Light", that "was Christ".

In ALL Scriptures, including Exodus, the passover was slaughtered "on the fourteenth". Dear Gadar Perets, we cannot get anywhere unless you get this right.

I never said the passover lambs were slaughtered on any day other than Abib 14.

Am I understanding you correctly that you believe Abib 14 lasted for three days in total darkness and then, when the three days were finished, Abib 15 started??????

You seem to be saying Exodus chapter 12 to chapter 15 all take place on Abib 14. Yet, Exodus 12:37 has the children of Israel journeying from Rameses to Succoth which Numbers 33:3 says took place on Abib 15!!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Israel's redemption from Egypt took place on Abib 14. Our redemption through the shed blood of Yeshua took place on Abib 14 as well, not on Abib 16 (Colossians 1:14).

Yes, on Abib 14, Colossians 1:14,20a;
and on Abib 15, Colossians 1:20b,22a; 2:12a;
and on Abib 16 Colossians 2:12b,13 Ephesians 1:19-23 Romans 5:9,10 "much more" Philippians 3:10 1Corinthians 15:3,4 etcetera et al.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

I never said the passover lambs were slaughtered on any day other than Abib 14.

Please accept my apology, I misunderstood you, here,

Nothing about midnight. However, even if they did bury their dead at midnight on Abib 15 (a ridiculous notion since they weren't killed until midnight on Abib 15), then the three days of darkness ended long before that.

I took 'they' in '~since they weren't killed until midnight on Abib 15~' for the passover lambs! Instead of, for the first born of the Egyptians!

I am very sorry and feel so embarrassed!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Am I understanding you correctly that you believe Abib 14 lasted for three days in total darkness and then, when the three days were finished, Abib 15 started??????

I believe I am understanding Exodus 12 to 15 correctly that the only DATE of "the fourteenth" there given, at first and before institutionalisation, was given for the single, "WHOLE" and "SUBSTANTIAL", "BONE-DAY-" EVENT of the WHOLE historic exit / exodus in "three days ... thick darkness", "out FROM Egypt" and "out INTO the land I the LORD swore".

I believe the darkness began as the darkness at Jesus' Last Passover of Yahweh began, midday "over ALL the land", for the Egyptians, so for Israel, but that God at "mid-afternoon" let the Pillar of Fire bring light for Israel to slaughter their passover lambs and strike their door lintels with blood, as well as to prepare their dough, in order to enter into their homes at sunset from where and as when the story of the exodus really started with "ROASTING" and "EATING THE FLESH WITH UNLEAVENED BREAD THAT NIGHT", Exodus 12:8, right inside their homes. So from there throughout all Scripture other than Exodus, the NEW DATE, of the fifteenth day of the First Month!

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

You seem to be saying Exodus chapter 12 to chapter 15 all take place on Abib 14. Yet, Exodus 12:37 has the children of Israel journeying from Rameses to Succoth which Numbers 33:3 says took place on Abib 15!!

I hope that my last post has explained.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"Soma" is not to be read in juxtaposition with "skia".

Virtually in as many sentences ever written in any language a single Verb applies to one OR MORE Subjects of Verbs. Sometimes the phenomenon is explained as 'by synechdoche' - 'part for whole'; sometimes as by 'ellipses' - 'present, applying and active though absent'. In Colossians 2:17, 'estin' - 'is' applies to both 'skia' - 'shadow' and 'body' / 'substance'; without it the crux of the whole is destroyed, namely, "these things are BUT a shadow, the substance / body / heart THOUGH, IS, Christ." This, is in accord with the great Christian translators, interpreters and commentators through the whole Christian era.

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

'ha' - "these things", viz., "your eating and drinking of Feast-of-Sabbaths...",

'estin' - "...is" / "are...",

'skia' - "shadow" / "glimpse" / "spectre...",

'tohn mellontohn' - "of things imminent" / "of things soon to realise / of things to mature...",

'to de' - "BUT the..." / "in FACT, the..."

'sohma' - "body" / "whole" / "essence" / "substance" / "the BONE of it all...",

('estin' - 'is') 'tou Xristou' - "of Christ" / "is Christ..."

'epichorehgoúmenon' - "...the Nourishment / Substance ministered."

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"Soma" is not to be read in juxtaposition with "skia". Here is Paul's thought translated correctly;

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath,
Col 2:17 (which are a shadow of things to come), but the Body of Messiah.

"Let no man therefore judge you ... but the Body of Messiah."
Paul said we are to judge those within the Body and YHWH will judge those outside the Body (1 Corinthians 5:11-13). The context of Colossians 2 shows Paul coming against outsiders (philosophers, deceivers, those exalting their man made traditions, idolaters who worship angels, and those who do not have Messiah Yeshua as their head. We are not to allow such outsiders to judge us concerning eating, drinking, holy days (Feast Days), new moons, and/or Sabbaths. Only those within the Body of Messiah can judge us in such matters. For example, a modern day Jew has no right to tell you how to keep Shabbat.

The word "soma" is nowhere in Scripture translated "substance" or "fulfillment" or "reality". However, notice Colossians 1:18 & 24 and Colossians 2:19, all of which teach us that the Body (soma) of Messiah is the church or all true believers. Colossians 2:17 is sandwiched in between those verses because Paul is laying out his teaching concerning believers (the Church/Body of Messiah). In Colossians 2:19, only two verses later, the unbelievers are said to not exalt the "Head" (Yeshua) to which the same "Body" of verse 17 is joined.

I'm sorry, but your interpretation is so faulty in many places and in whole it cannot be discussed here. But you have now read the only grammatical FACTUAL and correct outlay possible of the text.

You may also read the link, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 4, 2. Col.pdf

on this site, Bible Students - The Lord's Day in the Covenant of Grace

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath,
Col 2:17 (which are a shadow of things to come), but the Body of Messiah.

"Let no man therefore judge you ... but the Body of Messiah."

You are thus saying, '"Let no man therefore judge you ... but LET the Body of Messiah judge."'
You let 'the Body of Messiah' receive the action, "let", "let (judge)", which "you", the Colossian believers, must "not let yourselves be judge" by.
In other words, you are making 'the Body of Messiah' - 'to sohma tou Xristou', first, the Object receiving the action of to "let" / "let (judge)" or "not let" / "not let (judge)", by the believers; and at the same time you are making 'to sohma tou Xristou' - '~the Body of Messiah~', the Subject doing the action of to "judge", THUS IDENTIFYING "anybody" - 'tis' and 'to sohma tou Xristou' - '~the Body of Messiah~'.

That's very messy linguistics as well as logic, as well as perception of the Essence and Substance of Colossians 2:17, in my humble opinion.

 

[gadar perets]

Yes, on Abib 14, Colossians 1:14,20a;
and on Abib 15, Colossians 1:20b,22a; 2:12a;
and on Abib 16 Colossians 2:12b,13 Ephesians 1:19-23 Romans 5:9,10 "much more" Philippians 3:10 1Corinthians 15:3,4 etcetera et al.

The verses you quoted for Abib 15 & 16 say nothing about those dates. The verses you quoted about death, blood and the cross all took place on Abib 14. The verses quoted about his resurrection do not pertain to our redemption which is through his shed blood/death, but to our justification (Romans 4:25).

 

[gadar perets]

Virtually in as many sentences ever written in any language a single Verb applies to one OR MORE Subjects of Verbs. Sometimes the phenomenon is explained as 'by synechdoche' - 'part for whole'; sometimes as by 'ellipses' - 'present, applying and active though absent'. In Colossians 2:17, 'estin' - 'is' applies to both 'skia' - 'shadow' and 'body' / 'substance'; without it the crux of the whole is destroyed, namely, "these things are BUT a shadow, the substance / body / heart THOUGH, IS, Christ." This, is in accord with the great Christian translators, interpreters and commentators through the whole Christian era.

You mean the same "great Christian translators, interpreters and commentators through the whole Christian era" that also teach us the Sabbath is either abolished or changed to Sunday?

 

[GerhardEbersoehn]

"Soma" is not to be read in juxtaposition with "skia".

"Sohma" is, in juxtaposition with "skia", whether you don't want it '~to be read in juxtaposition with "skia"~' or not.

 

[gadar perets]

'ha' - "these things", viz., "your eating and drinking of Feast-of-Sabbaths...",

'estin' - "...is" / "are...",

'skia' - "shadow" / "glimpse" / "spectre...",

'tohn mellontohn' - "of things imminent" / "of things soon to realise / of things to mature...",

'to de' - "BUT the..." / "in FACT, the..."

'sohma' - "body" / "whole" / "essence" / "substance" / "the BONE of it all...",

('estin' - 'is') 'tou Xristou' - "of Christ" / "is Christ..."

'epichorehgoúmenon' - "...the Nourishment / Substance ministered."

I agree except for "whole" / "essence" / "substance" / "the BONE of it all..." and "is Christ...".

"Tou Xristo" = "of Christ", not "is Christ". Nor can the Greek be translated "of is Christ" or "is of Christ".

 

[gadar perets]

I'm sorry, but your interpretation is so faulty in many places and in whole it cannot be discussed here. But you have now read the only grammatical FACTUAL and correct outlay possible of the text.

You may also read the link, http://www.biblestudents.co.za/books/Book 4, 2. Col.pdf

on this site, Bible Students - The Lord's Day in the Covenant of Grace

I could care less how deceived Christians who try and abolish the holy laws of YHWH interpret the verse. Any commentary that does not uphold YHWH's holy feast days is in error.