Once Saved, Always Saved?

Titus · May 9, 2022

mailmandan said:
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door. He is not a revolving door.

Salvation is not "probation" , like a criminal
Salvation is also not unconditional.

Since when did salvation become unconditional?
Dan, you believe only those who have faith in Christ will be saved.
No faith= no salvation.

If OSAS is written in Gods word.
The consequence of this is:
No free will.
We cannot choose to leave God.
We cannot choose to be lost.
Once God has saved us, we no longer have any ability of our own to go back into serving satan,
Matthew 6:24.
God takes away the free will choices one used to have the ability to make once God has saved the person.

Not only are you OSAS but also you no longer have any say in the matter of who you want to serve.
God therefore forces His will on you from the moment He saves you if OSAS is true.

This is once again calvinism!
T.U.I.L.P. P, Perseverance of the saints also I, Iressitable grace.

OSAS means you cannot resist God any longer. No freewill.
Does the bible teach man cannot resist Gods will to save us?

Acts 7:51,
You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.

The bible gives us examples of those who left Jesus, quit abiding in Him.
Yes the saved have freewill as everyone.
If God miraculously changes your nature, so that you cannot, will not turn against Him,
Then calvinism is true ie irresistable grace, no freewill.

John 15:4-6, shows us, those ingrafted into Christ, can stop abiding in Christ and be cast away.

When was Peter saved?
The faith alone salvationist teach at the moment of belief in Jesus Christ.

Matthew 16:15-17
-but Jesus said to them, But who do you say that I am?
-Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
-Jesus answered and said to him,
Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Now Peter has faith in Christ.

Can Peter with his free will choose to no longer have faith in Jesus?
Can Peter turn away from God?
Or is Peter OSAS?

Important question,
Will God save those who do not believe in Him?
Hebrews 3:12,
-beware brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God

John 3:18,
-he who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Peter loses his faith in Jesus.
Once saved but lost.

Mark 16:9-14
-14,
-Later He appeared to the eleven as they sat at the table; and Jesus rebuked their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

They, apostles lost their faith.
Their hearts were hardened!

Can those with hardened hearts be saved?

Acts 28:27,
-for the hearts of this people have grown hardened.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
Their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should hear and see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.

The Bible teaches even the saved man of faith can become an unbeliever because God does not force His will on the lost or the saved.
Irresistable grace is false doctrine.
Perseverance of the saints is false doctrine.
OSAS is false.

Eternal life is permanent unless we choose to leave God, by giving up the faith.
Hebrews 10:23-24,
Let us hold fast the confession of our hope, without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

God is faithful to keep His promise. But this promise is based on conditions.
We must remain faithfull without wavering as the condition to stay in Gods grace.

Titus · May 9, 2022

Eternally Grateful said:
Dude, number 1 you do not know me or what I have done
Number 2. I have looked up in the greek. And YOUR WRONG that it always means water
Number 3 I have also looked up in historical context (how they used the word in Jesus day) and it just further proves you wrong.

You want to sit here and falsly accuse someone because they do not agree with you. I will just let you go and place you in my prayer bin.

You deny Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:1-7 is water immersion.
I have made no false accusations against you.

You are absolutely wrong about these verses not being water baptism.
There is not one passage that uses the Greek word baptizo for anything other than water immersion.

Give the passage that uses baptizo for some other kind of baptism?

My brethren have contacted multiple Greek scholars on this issue.
It was a unanimous consensus that these verses are only water immersion.

Not one of these verses you claim is Holy Spirit baptism. The Greek never uses these verses as you are mistakenly perverting them.

All in this debate can be proven who is correct.
But you will not do what needs to be done because you are running from the greek.

Contact multiple Greek scholars and ask them what baptizo in these verses are.
You are in error.

Eternally Grateful · May 9, 2022

Titus said:
You deny Colossians 2:12 and Romans 6:1-7 is water immersion.
I have made no false accusations against you.

Well of course. Because they are not

rom 6 is God baptizing us into the death and burial of Christ. No man can do this by immersing you in water

Col 2 is says plainly. By the one who raised him from the death

Your false accusations is I have not studied the greek.

Johann · May 9, 2022

Titus said:
We must remain faithfull

We must remain faithful...is that not the same as perseverance?
There are round about 1050 Imperatives in the New Testament for believers to do/obey, commands that we must do.
J.

Taken · May 9, 2022

Johann said:
We must remain faithful...is that not the same as perseverance?
There are round about 1050 Imperatives in the New Testament for believers to do/obey, commands that we must do.
J.

A man can not “remain” faithful, until he is first faith-FULL.

Faith is a gift from God.
Gods FULLNESS of Faith is when Gods Holy Spirit is “IN” a man.
When Gods Holy Spirit is “IN” a man, that mans FULLNESS is assured.
How can a mans FULLNESS BE assured?
Because that FULLNESS, “remains kept”, by the Highest Power that exists....Gods Power “IN” that man.

Johann · May 9, 2022

Titus said:
The Greek never uses these verses as you are mistakenly perverting them.

Go gently on the brother, I am sure that not many of us want to willfully twist and pervert Scripture as you put it.
My question to you.
Is there any saving efficacy in water?
Not even commentators can agree on scriptures and some of us have grown up believing that water is not an Imperative for being saved since even the pastors are like the commentaries and you will also get different interpretations on YouTube.

That's why we are here, to GENTLY correct one another in love.
J.

Happy Trails · May 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
(Continued in next post):

I trimmed your comments to make this thing a bit shorter:

Do you believe in Once Saved Always Saved?
Jesus said that the ones who endure to the end are saved. No one alive has endured to the end. We may be in the process of being saved. But, one can always renounce their faith. It happens all the time.

But do you keep all of them that apply to you?
This question is always asked. It is irrelevant. Here's why. Grace is what allows someone to make a mistake. The problem lies in whose law is chosen. If I choose to obey the Torah, I do because that is how God says we show our love for him.

Exodus 20:6, Deuteronomy 5:10, Deuteronomy 7:9, Deuteronomy 11:1, Deuteronomy 11:13, Deuteronomy 11:22, Deuteronomy 19:9, Deuteronomy 30:16. Joshua 22:5, Nehemiah 1:5, John 14:15, John 14:21, John 14:31, John 15:10, 1 John 5:2-3, 2 John 1:6, John 8:3.

If I choose to obey God, there is no condmenation. Walking according to the Spirit is walking according to the Torah. If I make a mistake, I am not condemned because I chose the correct Law to follow. The Holy Spirit was poured out on the day that is celebrated as the day Moses came down Sinai with the Torah. If I choose to obey pagan sun festivals and attach Jesus to them, God sees that as an abomination. I might still be saved. I might not. I am certainly NOT gaining any reward. Salvation is a free gift. Rewards are earned. A crown of righteousness will not be presented to swine eating Sabbath polluters. If I am perfect in my obedience to the feasts of pagan gods, God hates what I am doing.

Every religious observance in modern Christianity comes from the Roman Catholic Church. If you think they are right about everything else, then you should be confident in following their laws. You do realize you have chosen to submit yourself to the authority of the RCC, right?One can claim they are not a slave. But, if one obeys, the have their master. Romans 6:15.

"Sunday is our mark of authority. The church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday." The Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893

"Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. 'The day of the Lord' was chosen, not from any direction noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church's sense of its own power....People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically...keep Saturday holy." St. Catherine Church Sentinel, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

Note: Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:12, 19, 20.

Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

You replace words at will and conflate terms. A covenant is not a testament. The Torah is not a covenant. The covenant is the contract regarding the administration of the Torah. The new covenant provides the fulfillment of the Law in Messiah. The new covenant has YHVH's Torah written on our hearts. If a Temple were there, we could sacrifice there. Paul did.

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more: We'll see...

(Hebrews 8:13) (NLT). Note: Paul is quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34. If one continues in Jeremiah, YHVH says that if his Torah ever goes away, the nation of Israel will no longer exist. Israel is the definition of YHVH's people, regardless of race. The renewed covenant is not “new.” Every month there is a new moon. The old one is not replaced. It's cycle is renewed. The same term “chodesh” applies to the covenant. It is the same covenant, renewed, and improved. It is improved because YHVH says he will write HIS Torah on our hearts. We will be unable to disobey the Torah because it is written on our hearts.

(Romans 7:4).
This lesson is from Deuteronomy 24. If a woman cheats on her husband he can divorce her. As long as her husband remains alive, if she remarries, she will labeled as an adultress. We, as God's people, cheated on him. We served Baalim in the promised land. YHVH divorced us. We cannot remarry without being known as an adultress. Jesus came and died as our husband, which made us dead to this law. We are free to remarry. Jesus rose from the dead to claim His Bride as spotless. That is gospel.

(Romans 7:6).
Serving in newness of spirit does NOT mean continuing to cheat on YHVH by doing the rituals of the pagans.

(Colossians 2:14).
The handwriting of dogma is the man made rules that religions impose. The Law is not dogma. The entire chapter is a lesson in boldness in the face of the pagan world. That is why verse 16 means,”don't let the pagans judge you because you eat Kosher, and you observe YHVH's lunar calendar and observe his feasts and Sabbaths. Those things are shadows of the Messiah.” Pagan holidays are NOT shadows of the Messiah. ONLY the feasts of YHVH could qualify as Messianic prophecy.

(Colossians 2:20-23).
Uhmm... That says “rudiments of the world.” It says “commandments and doctrines of men.” This passage supports MY position, not yours.

(Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).
Right. The Gentiles can renounce their pagan ways and join Israel as the people of YHVH. The “ordinaces,” again, are man-made. It is only man-made rules that separate Jew from non-Jew.

Starting at Verse 11, it says to these former pagans, “in the PAST, you were called Gentiles. You were strangers (Gentiles) to the covenant of promise. Now, you are no longer Gentiles, but fellow citizens with the saints of YHVH.”

(Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).
Any single line can be made to seemingly mean anything. In context, this is explaining why the Law that ONLY the Levites were to serve as priests has been set aside. If that rule were not set aside, Jesus could NOT be the High Priest after the order of Melki-Tzedek.

(Hebrews 9:9-10).
This passage is a continuation of the theme from the previous chapters. It is saying a human high priest could never actually be perfect despite the ceremony. Nothing in the Law can erase sin. The blood of Messiah does that. Only HIS blood can cleanse all of us.

(Hebrews 9:16-17).
The proof of the strength of a testimony is its endurance after the death of the testator.

(Hebrews 9:15).
The renewed covenant stands because Messiah overcame death.

(Matthew 26:27-28).
I am renewing the covenant with you through my blood. YHVH said the first covenant was everlasting. I am here to renew it. I am here to make a way for YHVH to write his Torah on your hearts, and in your minds.

(Matthew 27:20-51).
Oh! That must mean that the Ark of the Covenant is available to everyone.

(Hebrews 10:8-9).
When Israel was completely disobedient in that they participated in the rituals of the pagans around them, YHVH took no pleasure in their posing as though they were obeying ONLY him.

(Acts of the Apostles 15:1).
The guys from Jerusalem said these pagans CAN'T BE SAVED unless they get circumcised and obey the Law FIRST. Barnabas said, “tell them to stop these 4 major sins, then they can join the Jews on the Sabbath to hear the Law of Moses.” (Verses 19-21)
You can get saved without obeying the Law. You can get saved without getting circumcised. And once you get saved, study the Law and obey it. The Law is the prophecies about Jesus.(John 5:46, Luke 24:44) THAT is why YHVH gave us these feasts. They are all about his son, Jesus.

(Acts of the Apostles 15:5). (Acts of the Apostles 15:24). (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

All of this is covered in the previous answer.

(2 Corinthians 3:7-11).
The glory of the Law is awesome. The glory of the Spirit will be even better.

(2 Corinthians 3:14).
The veil is what hid the Ark of the Covenant. If the veil is removed, the Torah is available to all. Jesus removes the veil and shows us how to obey the Law perfectly. So, just follow Him. Every time He went to Jerusalem it was for a feast. If I am following Jesus, I am observing what He observed. I am NOT observing pagan rituals with Jesus attached to them.

Titus · May 9, 2022

Johann said:
We must remain faithful...is that not the same as perseverance?
There are round about 1050 Imperatives in the New Testament for believers to do/obey, commands that we must do.
J.

Yes by definition.
But calvinism's idea of perseverance is a lack or ability of one to choose to go against God if God has already chose Him to be elected.
Nowhere is this idea taught in the scriptures.
Peter clearly went against Jesus while he was a believer and later became a hardened unbeliever.
As did the other 10 apostles.

ScottA · May 9, 2022

Bible Highlighter said:
Sorry, this is not a convincing argument from Scripture for what you said. It makes no sense for Jesus to give us new teachings and commands just so that they no longer apply anymore. You might as well tear out the gospels out of your Bible with this line of thinking, friend.

If it does not make sense to you that "other sheep I have which are not of this fold" that some are "the dead in Christ" and others are "the living in Christ" and the difference is what occurred before and after the cross...then you have not heard Him, let alone me.

But if you think you can mix those things He spoke to the dead with those things He spoke to the living and arrive at the gospel of Christ, mixing darkness with light--you are wrong.

So be it.

Johann · May 9, 2022

Titus said:
Peter clearly went against Jesus while he was a believer

Did Peter and the others believe in a savingly manner as us, or did that happen after the resurrection?
J.
P.S. I don't hold to the teachings of Calvin.

Johann · May 9, 2022

ScottA said:
and the difference is what occurred before and after the cross

Bang on target! The events BEFORE the cross and the events AFTER the cross..and I am no Dispensationalist...
J.

Titus · May 9, 2022

Johann said:
Go gently on the brother, I am sure that not many of us want to willfully twist and pervert Scripture as you put it.
My question to you.
Is there any saving efficacy in water?
Not even commentators can agree on scriptures and some of us have grown up believing that water is not an Imperative for being saved since even the pastors are like the commentaries and you will also get different interpretations on YouTube.

That's why we are here, to GENTLY correct one another in love.
J.

Thanks,
No efficacy in water.
The scriptures teach that immersion ie baptism in water is a condition that must be met in oder to contact the blood of Jesus.
The scriptures teach there is no power in water to save.
The Catholics wrongly teach the water can be "holy".
The catholic wrongly teaches the water literally turns to blood.
This also is found nowhere in scripture.

It is the obedience to Jesus' commandments that gives us access to Gods grace ie free gift of eternal life.

Example: repentance
Since God commands repentance to receive His grace.
Obeying this commandment is a essential requirement to gain access to Jesus' blood.

If we fail to repent and just believe.
Then, we will not be saved because of a lack of obedience.
Faith only salvation is a salvation from disobedience.
Baptism is a direct commandment, Acts 10:47-48.

You will not find any churches that teach salvation by faith only command water baptism immediately after one makes it known he is a believer.
You will not find one example in the new testament accounts of conversion to Jesus of anyone waiting later to be baptized.

All those who were baptized did so immediately after they heard the gospel and believed.
Why is there no examples in the bible of men waiting days weeks, months after coming to faith to be baptized?
Why do these folks not teach the true gospel of baptism being commanded?

Why do those today baptize as something that the believer should want to do, but never command them to do as did all the apostles.

Jesus made it simple what baptism was for,
Mark 16:15-16,
-And Jesus said to them,Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

This is how the faith onlyist teach Mark 16:15-16,
-he who believes and is not baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Could Peter make it any plainer?
Peter taught repentance and immersion was for the forgiveness of sins.

Acts 2:38,
-Then Peter said to them, Repent and let everyone of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Now look why Jesus shed His blood,
Matthew 26:28,
-For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Think about that!

What did Jesus shed His blood for?
Matthew 26:28 for the remission of sins

What did Peter preach repentance and baptism is for?
Acts 2:38 for the remission of sins.

They both are for the same purpose!
Therefore to say water immersion is not for salvation
One, is unknowingly saying Jesus shed blood is not for salvation.

They both are for the forgiveness of sins.
You cannot be saved without either one.

Johann · May 9, 2022

Titus said:
They both are for the forgiveness of sins.
You cannot be saved without either one.

Thank you brother, well said with Scriptures to witness.
I have been baptized when I was a young lad knowing what it meant.
As you can see, various interpretations on this thread re this topic.
God bless
J.

robert derrick · May 9, 2022

Berean said:
"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..."

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

You have put in some good work here.

And though it is true, that we can fail to obtain salvation by forsaking the Lord and His faith, that is more of a distractive issue by OSAS.

They will readily agree to doing good works by faith, but they will never allow their works to have anything to do with their salvation.

The real lie of OSAS is forever being once saved unconditionally by faith alone: as though it were a one time gift, that can never be cast away.

The lie is based upon the error that salvation is the gift of God, or as they like to say 'gifted' by God, so that they are the 'gifted' ones.

The faith of Jesus is the gift of God that saves us by grace. The gift of God by grace is His faith and Spirit, which is to be obeyed, else the Spirit departs and the gift becomes dead, even as the body is dead without the Spirit:

And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name.

Faith without works is dead, being alone.

Like a dead corpse, so is our faith that does not obey Him: the seed that is unproductive becomes dead, and the rotten tree is hewn down for the fire:

Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?

Eternal salvation is only obtained in the end at the first resurrection of the blessed, by them that obey the faith and the Spirit of Christ unto the end.

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

The gift of God is the faith to obey Him, that we may obtain eternal salvation in the end:

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him.

First we believe and do from the heart, and then we obtain from God, even as we must show ourselves merciful, that we may obtain mercy.

We receive the gift of God to believe and obey Him within the heart, that we may do His will on earth and obtain His salvation in the end:

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

BloodBought 1953 · May 9, 2022

Johann said:
What about faith?
Would you say that is a work?
J.

No .....it’s a Gift..... “ A measure of Faith is GIVEN to every man”

Ferris Bueller · May 9, 2022

Taken said:
A man KNOWS IF he is believing what he hears, verifies, reads.

How does he know he is believing?
The Bible tells us how to know you really are called and elected.

Ferris Bueller · May 9, 2022

BloodBought 1953 said:
Your “submitting” is a wise idea—- it “can” follow Salvation

No, it "HAS" to follow salvation. It's not optional. Because if it doesn't you aren't born again:

"9...he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1 John 3:9

Johann said:
The Holy Spirit not even mentioned on this thread?
J.

Are you suggesting that is a bad thing, or that it is just unnecessary to talk about that?

robert derrick · May 9, 2022

Berean said:
"... the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life ..." "... by grace are ye saved ..." Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8

Salvation from the death sentence is God’s gift, because God sent his own son to bear the death penalty for man. (John 3:16) But doesn’t salvation require the cooperation of the individual? Yes. For instance, the exercise of faith is essential. "... if we believe on him ... being justified by faith ..." "... the just shall live by faith." - - Romans 4:24; 5:10; Gal 3:11

The Apostle James shows that the sincerity of our faith must be demonstrated by our efforts at good works. This is why he says, "... by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24) This does not mean that God requires perfect works- - Paul shows that we are not capable of that. (Romans 3:20; 2:16, 3:11) But it does mean that we must try as much as possible to do those things that God would be pleased with. "Faith without works is dead." - - James 2:26

During this age God is not dealing with the world in general. He is preparing the Church class for a glorious reward. They are to be joined with Christ Jesus, and to share both his throne of dominion and his very nature- - the divine nature. (Acts 15:4; Room. 2:7) But before any will be raised to such a position of glory and honor, God wishes to see a character crystallized in earnest loyalty. Of Jesus it was written, "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered ..." (Hebrews 5:8) Each of Christ’s followers are also to have their obedience proved. We are to search our minds and hearts to see that they are kept in a proper attitude of devotion. The Apostle John said: "Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." - - 2 John 8

One inference of this counsel is that some will receive less than the full reward of divine nature. Some will be "overcharged with the cares of this life." Some will carelessly build with "wood, hay and stubble" rather than "gold, silver, and precious stones." (1 Corinthians 3:15) But if their hearts are loyal, God will still care for these. "If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." (1 Corinthians 3:12) For some this will mean deliverance "unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." - - 1 Corinthians 5:5

Some will fall. From other scriptures we learn that it is possible for some to come to a knowledge of the Lord, and then to willfully neglect the favor of God and become estranged from Him. To express and exercise faith in Him, and later to lose it. To receive a standing before God through faith in the blood of Jesus, and to fall. The vital, living and quickening faith of a believer can turn sour. Thus, the warning of Hebrews 10:38: "Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him ..." Jesus said, "No man having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." - - Luke 9:62

The condition of heart that would completely turn from God after having believed and received of the Holy Spirit, would make future repentance impossible. Read carefully Paul’s words in Hebrews 6:4- 6:

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted of the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance ..."

The warning of Hebrews 10:29 is to those who have at one time been sanctified.

"Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"

This condition, though infrequent, is nevertheless a real danger. What of such? The Apostle Peter, in chapter two of his second epistle, speaking of such a class, says: "... if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning." (2 Peter 2:20) These, he says, "have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam ... who loved the wages of unrighteousness." - - 2 Peter 2:15 Peter says that for them "the mist of darkness (the oblivion of death) is reserved for ever." (2 Peter 2:17) "... these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, ... shall utterly perish in their own corruption." - - 2 Peter 2:12

How can this be? Doesn’t Romans 8:35- 39 teach that nothing and nobody can "separate us from the love of God"? True, none of the distresses which he mentions there can separate us- - but we can separate ourselves by an attitude of faithlessness and carelessness leading to heart disloyalty and rebellion. Paul’s discussion is intended to be an assurance to all who will keep their hearts. Even the Apostle Paul himself said, "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27) See Romans 11:21.

In addition to these warnings, we have instruction to "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Proverbs 4:23) And Paul speaks of those "... who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory, honor, and immortality. ..." (Romans 2:7) For, in the full sense, "He that endureth to the end shall be saved." - - Matthew 10:22; 24:13

Faithful unto death Jesus forewarned that the battle of a Christian would not be easy. The world will taunt and jeer. "If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10:25) "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake ..." (Matthew 10:22) From our own flesh will come difficult enticements of pride and lust. (Romns 7:18- 24) And Satan, as a "roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8), will at every opportunity seek to make shipwreck of our faith.

Love for the Lord, and appreciation of the great price that secures our redemption, will inspire our devotion. Only such love will hold fast to the promise, "Be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) BUT, "Hold fast that which thou hast, that no man take thy crown ..."- Revelation 3:11

The only error here is that 1 Cor 3 is about ministry, not about righteous living.

Errors in ministry are wood, hay, and stubble to be burned away from memory at the judgement seat of Christ, but them that do unrighteousness are the dead branches burned in the fire for not abiding in Christ faithfully.

However, if our ministry is destructive, to the point of teaching unrighteous living to the church, such as OSAS, then the false teachers will be destroyed for seducing and defiling the temple of God into transgression:

For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. (Is 9:16)

Taken · May 9, 2022

Ferris Bueller said:
How does he know he is believing?

How does a man not know what he believes?

The Bible tells us how to know you really are called and elected.

Okay.

Ferris Bueller · May 9, 2022

robert derrick said:
The only error here is that 1 Cor 3 is about ministry, not about righteous living.

Errors in ministry are wood, hay, and stubble to be burned away from memory at the judgement seat of Christ, but them that do unrighteousness are the dead branches burned in the fire for not abiding in Christ faithfully.

Thumbs up.

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