The beast once was and now is.

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shilohsfoal

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Rev 17;8
The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

John wrote of a beast that once existsed before 100 AD but did not exist at that time.
He wrote that it would yet exist once more and this is history of that beast.


Rev17;10-11
And there are seven kings;five are fallen, and one is,and the other is not yet come;and when he cometh,he must continue a short space.And the beast that was,and is not,even he is the eighth ,and is of the seven,and goeth into perdition.

The seven kings that have reigned over Israel
Five that were fallen.
Egypt,Assyrian,Babylon,Persia,and Macedonia.
One that was at the time John wrote this-Rome.

Then came the Dispora

The one who would come and continue a short space,who the people of Israel were gatherd under-
Great britian.
The eighth is that kingdom that once was,then was not when John wrote this,but now is again today.
The kingdom that calls itself by the name of Israel.





Five kings from the west.
Macedinia,Roman,Byzantine,Ottoman and Great Britian


Daniel 8;8
Therefore the he goat waxed great; and when he was strong,the great horn was broken;and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven

Out of Great Britian came the country that calls itself Israel.

Daniel 8;9
And out of one of them came forth a little horn,which waxed exeedingly great,toward the south,and toward the east,and toward the pleasant land.

Israel declared its indepedence from Great Britian may 14,1948.

.Beasts of the east.
Babylon

Daniel 7;4
The first was like a lion,and had eagle's wings;I beheld till the wings therof were plucked,and it was lifted up from the earth,and made to stand upon the feet as a man,and a man's heart was given to it.
Persia
Daniel 7;5
And behold another beast,a second,like to a bear,and it raised up itself on one side,and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it;and they said thus unto it,Arise,devour much flesh.
Sassanid,Caliphate,Seljuk and Salidin
Daniel 7;6
After this I beheld,and lo another,like a leopard,which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl;the beast had also four heads;and dominion was given to it.
Independent muslim states.
Daniel 7;7
After this I saw in the night visions,and behold a forth beast,dreadful and terrible and strong exeedingly;and it had great iron teeth;it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it;and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.
Israel
Daniel 7;8
I considerd the horns,and behold,there came up amoung them another little horn,before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots;and,behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of a man,and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7;20
And of the ten horns that were in his head,and of the other which came up,and before whom three fell;even of that horn that had eyes,and a mouth that spake very great things,whose look was more stout than his fellows.

The six day war,Israel subdued Egypt ,Syria and Jordan.
Daniel 7;24
And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings

Daniel 7;23-25
23 "He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

Mathew 23;34
Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city:

Daniel 7;7
After this I saw in the night visions,and behold a forth beast,dreadful and terrible and strong exeedingly;and it had great iron teeth;it devoured and brake in pieces,and stamped the residue with the feet of it;and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it;and it had ten horns.

David lists the ten in Psalms 83 as follows.
Psalms 83;5-8
5 With one mind they plot together;
they form an alliance against you—
6 the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites,
of Moab and the Hagrites,
7 Byblos, Ammon and Amalek,
Philistia, with the people of Tyre.
8 Even Assyria has joined them
to reinforce Lot’s descendants.

The ten gave Palestine unto the beast(the Israeli goverment) till the word of God shall be finished.

Rev 17;17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Today That beast with those ten reign over the promised kingdom.

That kingdom shall be destroyed and given to the saints of the most high.

Daniel 7
25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Mathew 8;11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.



Rev 13;3
One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.

The small nation seemed to have been killed but It lives again.
The jews of the world were astonished when it became a nation again and followed it from all over the world.


The city that is over the kingdom Is Jerusalem (the wh*re)and the waters where sit sits are people multitudes ,nations and tongues.
Rev 17;15
And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the wh*re sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

That is a very good discription of the nation of immigrants from many nations.
Here are the demographics of Israel copied from wikipedia-

Languages
Main article: Languages of Israel
Israel has two official languages, Hebrew and Arabic.[1] Hebrew is the primary language of the state and is spoken by the majority of the population, and Arabic is spoken by the Arab minority. Many Israelis communicate reasonably well in English, as many television programs are broadcast in this language and English is taught from the early grades in elementary school. As a country of immigrants, many languages can be heard on the streets. Due to mass immigration from the former Soviet Union and Ethiopia (some 120,000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel),[316] Russian and Amharic are widely spoken.[317] Between 1990 and 1994, the Russian immigration increased Israel's population by twelve percent.[318] Out of more than one million Russian-speaking immigrants in Israel,[319] about 300,000 are considered gentile by the Orthodox rabbinate, because, under the Orthodox interpretation, only children to Jewish mothers are considered Jews, while the Law of Return accepts those with Jewish fathers, grandparents, and spouses.[320][321]


Jerusalem is responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth.

Rev 18;24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Mathew 23;35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Revelation 17;16

And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the wh*re, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Psalms 83;5-8
#1 the tents of Edom
#2 Ishmaelites,
#3 Moab
#4 Hagrites,
#5 Byblos,
#6 Ammon
#7 Amalek,
#8 Philistia,
#9 Tyre.
#10 Assyria

After they have burned the wh*re the Lord shall fight against them.


Psalms 83;9-12
9 Do to them as you did to Midian,
as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the river Kishon,
10 who perished at Endor
and became like dung on the ground.
11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb,
all their princes like Zebah and Zalmunna,
12 who said, "Let us take possession
of the pasturelands of God."

Zechariah 14;3
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Rev 17;14
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

After the beast and those ten are romoved the saints inherit the promised land.

Daniel 7;27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Mathew 8;11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

Ezekiel 39;27
27When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

1000 years after the beast is destroyed and the saints have recieved the kingdom,Gog comes to the land of Israel to possess the land but none can take it away from the saints.

Rev 20;7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

Before anyone on this board accuse me of being antisemetic,you should consider first that I am a disciple of Christ.
All that I learn is from scripture written by Jews and I back everything I say with that scripture.
 

veteran

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The nation of Israel has no king over them today, nor have they had a king of the house of David there since the days of Jeremiah the prophet.

Lot of that conjecture about the 'beast' comes from not understanding how our Lord Jesus revealed TWO beasts in Revelation, the "first beast" as a kingdom with ten horns, seven heads, and ten crowns, and then "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward which is about a certain individual coming to work great wonders and miracles upon the earth, in plain sight.

That second beast ("another beast") will appear with two horns like a Lamb (Christ), but will speak as the "dragon". It's because it is the dragon, Satan himself.

It is Satan being described as the beast of Rev.17 that was, and is not, and yet is. And that's about him in the role of beast king, giving authority to the "first beast" (a kingdom). That's to occur only in the very last days just prior to Christ's return. Satan is coming first, and the majority of the world is not prepared to recognize him, as men's doctrines will probably wind up saying Mickey Mouse is that coming false one instead! (I joke, partly).

There's something deep our Lord Jesus revealed in Rev.17 about the idea of beast 'kings' that many miss...

Rev 17:8-13
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Who is that "angel of the bottomless pit" per Rev.9:11? Who is that "king" which is also that "angel of the bottomless pit"? Answer: Satan himself.

Shouldn't be difficult to understand that's who our Lord is talking about there, also since that one is already sentenced to go into perdition to the lake of fire. No flesh man has been judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire yet, not until after Christ's future thousand years reign. That's how that beast king there "was, and is not, and yet is." It's pointing to Satan.


Rev.17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Note our Lord in verse 11 refers back to that beast king of verse 8 above, the one that "was, and is not, and yet is" that goes into perdition.

We are then told that "even he is the eighth, and is of the seven". What does that mean?

He's the eighth beast king to come, but also of the seven beast kings. The 6th beast king was in John's day and was a flesh man, just as the previous 5 beast kings of history were also. So if the one of verse 8 is about Satan, and he was OF... all seven, what's that mean?

Satan has always been behind the working of the flesh beast king men of history. But for the role of the 7th and 8th kings, it's different. Why? Because of what our Lord Jesus revealed about that one that "was, and is not, and yet is" that is to go into perdition (hint about the lake of fire), and... "shall ascend out of the bottomless pit". We know there ain't no flesh beast king gonna' ascend out of the bottomless pit, for that's a direct reference to Satan as the angel of the bottomless pit per Rev.9:11.

That's how it will be Satan himself as the coming 7th beast king, still yet to come in our days. That's also just how... he can be the 7th king, and also the final 8th king, and be of... all the beast kings.

The role of the final 8th beast king is for the end of Christ's Millennial reign, when Satan is loosed once more in final to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth (Rev.20:7-11).

Why is Satan called a 'king' per Rev.9:11 and also as the angel of the bottomless pit? It's because Satan first rebelled against God in wanting to be The KING, The LORD GOD Himself. That's what all the previous world beast kingdoms of history have been about too, attempts by Satan to prepare a world kingdom on this earth so he could come to rule over it, in person. Yet God ended all those previous world beast kingdoms of history, and those kings that tried to make it happen. They all failed to bring it about literally over all... nations, always some nations that remained apart from it which the beast kings could not conquer, and which God used to destroy it.

But in the last days of this present world, that's going to be different as our Lord Jesus has shown us.

Rev 13:3-8
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, and His tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
(KJV)

For the end of this present world, God is going to allow Satan to do what he once tried before when he first rebelled, and that is the attempt to usurp God's Throne, on earth at Jerusalem, ruling over all nations and peoples upon this earth. And it very much appears that's going to happen in our lifetime today. Jerusalem is where God said he chose to dwell forever, so that's why Satan covets Jerusalem also as his dwelling, because he wants to be our True KING, and wants us to worship him in place of GOD.

If you've noticed how far away men's doctrines get away from covering this matter of Satan coming to this earth in plain sight, to set himself up as king over all in this world, then you will have conquered most of the confusion of today among the Churches.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.

We've had this discussion before, and you're bringing it up again?!

The "little horn" is NOT Isra'el! You don't even have the five KINGDOMS right, let alone the five KINGS!

Although I don't agree with everything that veteran said, he's a lot closer to the truth than you are.
 

shilohsfoal

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Im not bringing it up for you.
Im bringing it for others who might want to believe what they see happening with thier own eyes.
There may be some who have not been mislead by false doctrins .
 

Retrobyter

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Shabbat shalom, shilohsfoal.

Well, if they hear your belief that Isra'el is the "little horn" and believe it, then they HAVE been misled by a false doctrine.

Don't do this to others! The "little horn" is a PERSON, not a kingdom. The beasts represent kingdoms; the horns represent kings. That point is clear in the book of Dani'el. Do try to love Isra'el as God loves her.
 

shilohsfoal

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[sub]The little horn is a people as in nation.Its not a three foot tall man .[/sub]

[sub]But that is your false doctrin.You can belioeve in it and wait for that three foot tall man to defeat ten kings of nations with all thier armies and weapons.[/sub]
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.

[sub]The little horn is a people as in nation.Its not a three foot tall man .[/sub]

[sub]But that is your false doctrin.You can belioeve in it and wait for that three foot tall man to defeat ten kings of nations with all thier armies and weapons.[/sub]
Who (besides yourself) said anything about a "three foot tall man?" Are you hearing voices again?

On the other hand, even a short person can be a powerful leader, like Napoleon and Alexander the Great! Both of them were shorter than the men they led; so what? Whether he is a physically short person in stature or if he is short by way of influence doesn't matter. Horns still refer to kings, not countries or kingdoms!
 

shilohsfoal

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.


Who (besides yourself) said anything about a "three foot tall man?" Are you hearing voices again?

On the other hand, even a short person can be a powerful leader, like Napoleon and Alexander the Great! Both of them were shorter than the men they led; so what? Whether he is a physically short person in stature or if he is short by way of influence doesn't matter. Horns still refer to kings, not countries or kingdoms!

If the horns of the beast represent kings then what do the crowns represent?

Rev 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

I understand the crowns being over the horns.Yet you cant understand that.
Countries have leaders that are over them.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.

If the horns of the beast represent kings then what do the crowns represent?

Rev 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

I understand the crowns being over the horns.Yet you cant understand that.
Countries have leaders that are over them.

<Sigh.> :rolleyes: The crowns are ... <gasp!> :eek: ... CROWNS! :D How else is one supposed to understand that the horns are kings?! Y'know, figurative language has to end somewhere! Otherwise, the allegorical thinking just goes on and on and on and ... JUST AS YOU ARE DOING NOW! :wacko:

By the way, the crowns are NOT "OVER" the horns; they're "UPON" the horns! The Greek word is "epi" and is the same word used in Matthew 27:29:

Revelation 13:1
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV


Matthew 27:29
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
KJV


Same word in both the Greek and the English. Unless, you think the "crown of thorns" represented something else that was OVER Yeshua` the Messiah (Jesus the Christ), it means the same thing in Revelation 13:1. The "horns" are each DRESSED with a crown!
 

shilohsfoal

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.



<Sigh.> :rolleyes: The crowns are ... <gasp!> :eek: ... CROWNS! :D How else is one supposed to understand that the horns are kings?! Y'know, figurative language has to end somewhere! Otherwise, the allegorical thinking just goes on and on and on and ... JUST AS YOU ARE DOING NOW! :wacko:

By the way, the crowns are NOT "OVER" the horns; they're "UPON" the horns! The Greek word is "epi" and is the same word used in Matthew 27:29:

Revelation 13:1
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
KJV


Matthew 27:29
29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
KJV


Same word in both the Greek and the English. Unless, you think the "crown of thorns" represented something else that was OVER Yeshua` the Messiah (Jesus the Christ), it means the same thing in Revelation 13:1. The "horns" are each DRESSED with a crown!


Since you claim they are real crowns and crowns can only mean crowns then show us a king that still wears a crown today.You obviously are looking foe a seven headed beast to come up out of the sea.Keep looking.Maybe a fish will jump out of that sea every now and then.LOL
 

veteran

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Since you claim they are real crowns and crowns can only mean crowns then show us a king that still wears a crown today.You obviously are looking foe a seven headed beast to come up out of the sea.Keep looking.Maybe a fish will jump out of that sea every now and then.LOL

That's another one of the fallacies of your theory, for NONE... of the ten kings exist yet today! They are yet to come to power, and they are all to exist at the same time, concurrent with each other, and with the beast king when he comes to reign.
 

shilohsfoal

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That's another one of the fallacies of your theory, for NONE... of the ten kings exist yet today! They are yet to come to power, and they are all to exist at the same time, concurrent with each other, and with the beast king when he comes to reign.

Those ten are reigning today withthe beast.
They all govern the kingdom.

If you were of the kingdom you should at least know where the kingdom is.But since you are not of Israel ,I cant expect you to understand much about the kingdom.Not where it is nor who governs it today.
 

Retrobyter

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Shalom, shilohsfoal.

Since you claim they are real crowns and crowns can only mean crowns then show us a king that still wears a crown today.You obviously are looking foe a seven headed beast to come up out of the sea.Keep looking.Maybe a fish will jump out of that sea every now and then.LOL

Here ya' go: http://www.theukinfo.com/government-and-politics.htm. What's that on Queen Elizabeth's head? That's not icing on a cake, is it? And, that's just one of MANY crowns that belong to the king or queen of the British Empire.

There are 44 kingdoms in the world today. You can be certain that ALL of them have certain clothes of pomp and splendor at special affairs and celebrations of State! ANY headdress that is SOLELY for royalty is, by definition, a crown! No one else in the Kingdom is allowed to wear such a headdress. Whether these headdresses are bejeweled or not, they are all crowns - whether they are military caps, berets, fezzes, or turbans - as only the king or queen can wear them!

Yes, they may not always wear their crowns, but at special occasions, they can and will!

And, be careful! I'd hate for someone to label you a "scoffer," Mr. Know-It-All!
 

veteran

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Those ten are reigning today withthe beast.
They all govern the kingdom.

If you were of the kingdom you should at least know where the kingdom is.But since you are not of Israel ,I cant expect you to understand much about the kingdom.Not where it is nor who governs it today.


Rev 17:12-13
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
(KJV)

What do the above verses mean then? (Note their relation with the other verses surrounding them too)