Trump to help Jewish People Build their 3RD. Temple??

[CoreIssue]

At the death of Alexander Greece was divided between his four generals.

Historically Rome followed Greece. Then Rome Divided into East and West Rome and then into 10 nations.

You completely eliminated Rome. And are not much of a student of history.

 

[CoreIssue]

No one knows at this point, but they are seven nations or kingdom associated with the Antichrist.

The beast is mystery Babylon. We already know which nations and kings they were from history.

The 10 toes further broke down and changed over time to the nations of today as shown in the maps I posted.

The nations of today which represent the toes of the past are the ones that will become the AC kingdom. The EU.

 

[Bobby Jo]

At the death of Alexander Greece was divided between his four generals.

FIVE. Stop reading the "commentators" who have an AGENDA. Please read what the REAL HISTORIANS have to say:

. ...(Alexander) had left not one but several strong men behind him, and none could be content with less than sovereignty. ... After some minor trials at arms which disposed of lesser contenders, they divided the empire into five parts -- Antipater taking Macedonia and Greece, Lysimachus Thrace, Antigonus Asia Minor, Seleucus Babylonea, and Ptolemy Egypt.”[1]

[1] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 557-558​

This FIVE general division lasted for 40 years, after which time there were only Four generals.

Historically Rome followed Greece. Then Rome Divided into East and West ...

Any such purported "division" starts in the THIGHS (Greece).

The 10 toes further broke down and changed over time to the nations of today as shown in the maps I posted.

Yeah, there are 28 Current Members in the EU, -- and YOU selectively threw out 14 -- CORRECTION 18. -- Hmmmmmmmm ...


Bobby Jo

 

[CoreIssue]

FIVE. Stop reading the "commentators" who have an AGENDA. Please read what the REAL HISTORIANS have to say:

. ...(Alexander) had left not one but several strong men behind him, and none could be content with less than sovereignty. ... After some minor trials at arms which disposed of lesser contenders, they divided the empire into five parts -- Antipater taking Macedonia and Greece, Lysimachus Thrace, Antigonus Asia Minor, Seleucus Babylonea, and Ptolemy Egypt.”[1]

[1] Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 557-558​

This FIVE general division lasted for 40 years, after which time there were only Four generals.




Any such purported "division" starts in the THIGHS (Greece).




Yeah, there are 28 Current Members in the EU, -- and YOU selectively threw out 14. -- Hmmmmmmmm ...


Bobby Jo

I just watched a National Geographic special on Alexander.

Right after he died was divided between his four generals.

Educate yourself on the EU.
Not as clear-cut as you are claiming.

Let's see. 28 - 14 = 14 - brittain leaving on 12th = 13 - three more to process deciding to leave = 10

But even that doesn't matter.

The 10 toes are the historical countries Rome collapsed into that continue to change borders ever since.

But the area of the 10 toes in the countries within it is still here.

Your arguments are not historical.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/european-union-countries/

 

[Jay Ross]

I just watched a National Geographic special on Alexander.

Right after he died was divided between his four generals.

Educate yourself on the EU.
Not as clear-cut as you are claiming.

Let's see. 28 - 14 = 14 - brittain leaving on 12th = 13 - three more to process deciding to leave = 10

But even that doesn't matter.

The 10 toes are the historical countries Rome collapsed into that continue to change borders ever since.

But the area of the 10 toes in the countries within it is still here.

Your arguments are not historical.

http://worldpopulationreview.com/european-union-countries/

View attachment 5794

Again, what you are showing in the image is wrong. The legs of the Statue was Iraq and the feet was the Coalition pf the Willing.

In our near future we will see the rock , God's truth come down out of heaven to cause the statue to fall over and be crushed and ground into chaff/dust to be blown away, but the prophecy does not give a timeline as to when this will be done.

Shalom

 

[CoreIssue]

Again, what you are showing in the image is wrong. The legs of the Statue was Iraq and the feet was the Coalition pf the Willing.

In our near future we will see the rock , God's truth come down out of heaven to cause the statue to fall over and be crushed and ground into chaff/dust to be blown away, but the prophecy does not give a timeline as to when this will be done.

Shalom

Wherever you get your thinking from. It is not the Bible.

 

[Jay Ross]

Wherever you get your thinking from. It is not the Bible.

Can you show me where you get your thinking from then, and confirm that it is from the bible. So far what I see you posting is not based on the bible at all.

Please set it out with the actual scripture reference and the text and your claim as to what it represents prophetically.

 

[CoreIssue]

Can you show me where you get your thinking from then, and confirm that it is from the bible. So far what I see you posting is not based on the bible at all.

Please set it out with the actual scripture reference and the text and your claim as to what it represents prophetically.

You first because you cannot.

 

[Bobby Jo]

I just watched a National Geographic special on Alexander.
...

Perhaps you could cite an actual HISTORY BOOK, typical of:

Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 557-558​

... The 10 toes are the historical countries Rome ...

I believe ROME perished about 600 AD, and another (Italy) occupies that ancient geography. And as your posted image CORRECTLY reflects, the FEET represent the FIFTH "divided kingdom", -- for which we coincidentally have THREE Superpowers, and a United Nations with a FUTURE Ten Member Permanent Security Council.


Nah, Scripture should NEVER agree with History ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Naomi25]

Sure they do. It is historical knowledge Men in Faith in Christ the Lord Jesus would be persecuted.....
AT THE HANDS OF OTHER MEN.

End of days SUFFERING; is about Persecution....
BY THE anti-Christ being GIVEN GREAT POWER

Not just the antichrist. Jesus told us that persecution and suffering would be normal in the interadvental period. Matt 24 lists numerous things that will be normal, but increasing during this time; persecution for our faith is but one of them. But we are also told these things about suffering:

Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. -Acts 5:41

Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, -Romans 5:3–4

and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. -Romans 8:17

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. -Romans 8:18

For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, -Philippians 1:29

Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ -Philippians 3:8

What should we make of all these verses? Well...I suppose one could decide Christians were seeking out suffering and then 'enjoying' it when it comes. And...I don't think that is the purpose or intent of these verses. We are being told that, just as the world rejected, hated and persecuted Christ, it will do the same to his people. Thus, we can expect suffering. And while it will never be fun, we can know we are receiving it because we are following in the footsteps of our Lord...and indeed, that brings joy, does it not?
And then, when in the suffering, in the midst, we are not masochistic, but when we have something so much greater to set our eyes upon, great strength, endurance and even joy can be achieved in even the hardest of times.

"SKIP out of "suffering"?

The "SUFFERING" shall be effected IN THE END of these days; "BY the WRATH of the LAMB and the Wrath of GOD forward;" Giving the anti-Christ Power OVER people who REJECT Christ...

Sound like you are implying enough Christians have not been EQUALLY persecuted, and those Christians not EQUALLY persecuted should be "Greatly Persecuted", and not be Lifted up above the coming Wrath, UNTIL there is some sort of EQUAL Persecution of all Christians.

"IF" a man IS IN Christ, regardless of the EXTENT of Persecution a man in Christ has suffered at the hands of Other men....
ALL IN Christ Shall be Lifted UP above the earth, and NOT SUBJECT TO WRATH.

Measuring which Christians are MORE Persecuted than other Christians is irrelevant.
A day of SEPARATION of the Converted IN Christ is coming, in the manner prescribed IN Scripture.

God Bless,
Taken

I think you miss my point. Persecution...the sort that is in the world now...even the sort that is coming and of Satan...will only ever be dolled out in portion and upon those whom God allows it. It is completely in his hands. So if some go through life, as indeed some have, and experience no persecution, while others live with nothing but, then that is God's sovereign hand and we praise him regardless.
However, I have heard many, many Dispensational teachers who joke...joke, mind you, about "flying away before the brown stuff hits the fan". In their mind, sitting in their comfortable churches with cushioned chairs and air conditioned comfort and speaking to the crowds that will go home and eat a full dinner and then play golf or spend the afternoon watching TV, they believe that God will take them away before their world comes crumbling down around them, safe in the knowledge that THEY can't be expected to suffer for the name of Christ. Not that way, anyway! Why? Because they've convinced themselves that that special timeframe they've called the last 7 years is "God's wrath" and therefore their outta here. Forget that their doctrine calls for the fact that most of the persecution in that time will come from unbelievers and that those "saints" who come to faith then will mostly be spared, miraculously, the horrible 'judgements' that God pours upon the earth.
Why do they say that? Because it is a truth that Christ has taken all our wrath and punishment. They can at least recognize that, so they must pass that promise along to those who come to faith in that time. The problem for them is: if God spares the Tribulation Saints from his plagues and such, why the need for the Rapture? If Christians are not spared now from persecution, and won't be 'then'....why the need for the Rapture?
It's just this nice little fantasy they've made up all because they don't want to suffer. But, here's the problem...as the body of Christ, we need to recognize that when one of us suffers, we all share in it:

If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. -1 Corinthians 12:26


Which brings me back to my point: pretending on a fly-away fantasy to avoid a reality that so many of our brothers and sisters are already facing daily is not honoring Christ or the rest of his body.

 

[Jay Ross]

You first because you cannot.

The tactic of a person who knows that he cannot show his biblical sources.

For me, let me begin by reference the following: -

Jeremiah 50:35-40: -

35 "A sword is against the Chaldeans," says the Lord,
"Against the inhabitants of Babylon,
And against her princes and her wise men.
36 A sword is against the soothsayers, and they will be fools.
A sword is against her mighty men, and they will be dismayed.
37 A sword is against their horses,
Against their chariots,
And against all the mixed peoples who are in her midst;
And they will become like women.
A sword is against her treasures, and they will be robbed.
38 A drought is against her waters, and they will be dried up.
For it is the land of carved images,
And they are insane with their idols.
39 "Therefore the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,
And the ostriches shall dwell in it.
It shall be inhabited no more for a very long period of time which is outside of our understanding,
Nor shall it be dwelt in for an age/generation plus another age/generation,
i.e. for two ages = around 2000 + years.
40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
And their neighbors," says the Lord,
"So no one shall reside there,
Nor son of man dwell in it.
​

And then followed by Revelation 16:17-21 which is referencing the period of time around and after WW1 when after two ages Babylon is remember once more before the Lord when it is re-established as a nation in 1926.
​

Revelation 16:17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken
17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great.​

​

and finally

Jeremiah 50:41-46: -

41 "Behold, a people shall come from the north,
And a great nation and many kings
Shall be raised up from the ends of the earth. (i.e. the Coalition of the Willing.)
42 They shall hold the bow and the lance;
They are cruel and shall not show mercy.
Their voice shall roar like the sea;
They shall ride on horses,
Set in array, like a man for the battle,
Against you, O daughter of Babylon.
43 "The king of Babylon has heard the report about them,
And his hands grow feeble;
Anguish has taken hold of him,
Pangs as of a woman in childbirth.
44 "Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the floodplain of the Jordan
Against the dwelling place of the strong;
But I will make them suddenly run away from her.
And who is a chosen man that I may appoint over her?
For who is like Me?
Who will arraign Me?
And who is that shepherd
Who will withstand Me?"
45 Therefore hear the counsel of the Lord that He has taken against Babylon,
And His purposes that He has proposed against the land of the Chaldeans:
Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out;
Surely He will make their dwelling place desolate with them.
46 At the noise of the taking of Babylon
The earth trembles,
And the cry is heard among the nations.​

Plus which tells us what is going to happen the nations that make up the Coalition of the Willing.

Jeremiah 51:9-19

9 We would have healed Babylon,
But she is not healed.
Forsake her, and let us go everyone to his own country;
For her judgment reaches to heaven and is lifted up to the skies.
10 The Lord has revealed our righteousness.
Come and let us declare in Zion the work of the Lord our God.
11 Make the arrows bright!
Gather the shields!
The Lord has raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes.
For His plan is against Babylon to destroy it,
Because it is the vengeance of the Lord,
The vengeance for His temple.
12 Set up the standard on the walls of Babylon;
Make the guard strong,
Set up the watchmen,
Prepare the ambushes.
For the Lord has both devised and done
What He spoke against the inhabitants of Babylon.
13 O you who dwell by many waters,
Abundant in treasures,
Your end has come,
The measure of your covetousness.
14 The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:
"Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts,
And they shall lift up a shout against you."

15 He has made the earth by His power;
He has established the world by His wisdom,
And stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
16 When He utters His voice —
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
"He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
He makes lightnings for the rain;
He brings the wind out of His treasuries."
17 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge;
Every metalsmith is put to shame by the carved image;
For his molded image is falsehood,
And there is no breath in them.
18 They are futile, a work of errors;
In the time of their punishment they shall perish.
19 The Portion of Jacob is not like them,
For He is the Maker of all things;
And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance.
The Lord of hosts is His name.
​

I rest my scriptural basis that support my views.

Now it is your turn to provide the scriptural support for your POV.

 

[Dave L]

Yep, when you get hungry, pray that your spiritual food will suffice. And when you are too weak to stand, pray that your spiritual body will be strengthened. And when they haul your body away, at least it will be as light as a "spirit".

Good Job,
Bobby Jo

You need to study this. Start by trying to prove that Jesus preached the gospel of a future physical kingdom in any of the gospels. He did not. He taught the kingdom was a present spiritual reality but only the born again could see it. You might not be saved if you cannot see it here now.

Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

“When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)

 

[Taken]

Not just the antichrist. Jesus told us that persecution and suffering would be normal in the interadvental period. Matt 24 lists numerous things that will be normal, but increasing during this time; persecution for our faith is but one of them. But we are also told these things about suffering:

Yes.

Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. -Acts 5:41

Yes. Some will suffer VIA DISHONOR.
(They have NO Comfort WITH the Lord.)

Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, -Romans 5:3–4

Yes. Some will suffer VIA HONOR VIA FAITH.
(They Have Comfort WITH the Lord)

and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him. -Romans 8:17

Yes. Christ Jesus, our Example, Suffered, so shall those with Him, and have the same outcome AS Jesus, risen UP, BEFORE Wrath upon the World comes UPON the world.

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us. -Romans 8:18

Yes. Present sufferings are not comparable BAD, as GREAT as peace shall be in Glorified men.

For it has been granted to you that for the sake of Christ you should not only believe in him but also suffer for his sake, -Philippians 1:29

Yes. Jesus (our Example) Maintained Faithfulness, while SUFFERING for Gods SAKE, so also shall those in faithfulness to JESUS, SUFFER for Christ Jesus' SAKE.

Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ -Philippians 3:8

Yes. NATURAL LIFE of a man AND Tangent Material things a man accumulates and LOSES "IS OF NO ACCOUNT/WORTH", should a man GAIN Faithfulness IN Christ.

What should we make of all these verses?

Already noted in my response.

Well...I suppose one could decide Christians were seeking out suffering and then 'enjoying' it when it comes.

No, the Faithful do not SEEK suffering. They have SOUGHT after the Lord, and thereafter EXPECT suffering, BECAUSE above ALL IS their Choice to Have THEE Lord God, First and Foremost ABOVE "ALL" things.

And...I don't think that is the purpose or intent of these verses. We are being told that, just as the world rejected, hated and persecuted Christ, it will do the same to his people. Thus, we can expect suffering.

Agree. And I never said otherwise.

And while it will never be fun, we can know we are receiving it because we are following in the footsteps of our Lord...and indeed, that brings joy, does it not?

Sure. And I never said otherwise.

And then, when in the suffering, in the midst, we are not masochistic, but when we have something so much greater to set our eyes upon, great strength, endurance and even joy can be achieved in even the hardest of times.

Sure.

I think you miss my point. Persecution...the sort that is in the world now...even the sort that is coming and of Satan...will only ever be dolled out in portion and upon those whom God allows it. It is completely in his hands. So if some go through life, as indeed some have, and experience no persecution,

I would Disagree here.
EVERYONE experiences "Persecution"/HARD TIMES.
Some experience "Persecution" FOR their FAITHFULNESS...."IN THE Lord God".
Some experience "Persecution/Hard TIMES" for REJECTING FAITH..."IN THE Lord God".

while others live with nothing but, then that is God's sovereign hand and we praise him regardless.

Sure.

Continued; Page 2

Taken

 

[Taken]

Naomi25 said;

]However, I have heard many, many Dispensational teachers who joke...joke, mind you, about "flying away before the brown stuff hits the fan".

I have not heard anyone "joking" about one claiming being taken up.

In their mind, sitting in their comfortable churches with cushioned chairs and air conditioned comfort and speaking to the crowds that will go home and eat a full dinner and then play golf or spend the afternoon watching TV, they believe that God will take them away before their world comes crumbling down around them,

Yes. Many gather together in Faith to Worship the Lord God, then dispurse After the gathering, and make plans to enjoy their day.

safe in the knowledge that THEY can't be expected to suffer for the name of Christ.

What EXPECTATION? They shall NOT be confronted by A terrorist that Hates their faithfulness? They shall NOT return to their home buring down? They shall NOT be killed in an auto accident on their way home? They shall NOT return home and FIND a family member has been murdered?

Not that way, anyway! Why?

You are Speaking "THIER MINDS" for them.
So what people MAKE plans after a Church gathering? So what IF "their" PLANS come to PASS or IF "their" PLANS DO NOT come to PASS?

Because they've convinced themselves that that special timeframe they've called the last 7 years is "God's wrath" and therefore their outta here.

Frankly MY POINT IS; I agree with "them".
I "make" PLANS, I "enjoy" my life. I have a "Comforter" WITH ME, when hardships and strife "affect" my life, and "GO THROUGH" the hardship, "WITH" the Lord God "WITH ME".

Does that mean I do not "make Plans" ? No.

Does that mean I am IMMUNE from "Hardships"? No.

Does that mean I should EXPECT SUBJECTION to THE LAMBS "WRATH" ? No.
To GODS "WRATH"? No.

Does that mean "I AM PREPARED" for the Lord God to Lift me Up unto Him? Yes.

Forget that their doctrine calls for the fact that most of the persecution in that time will come from unbelievers

Why are you Presuming, men have FORGOTTEN, persecution of the Faithful, is ONLY at a particular time? The UNFAITHFUL have been persecuting the Faithful for thousands of years.

and that those "saints" who come to faith then will mostly be spared, miraculously, the horrible 'judgements' that God pours upon the earth.

Yes.....BINGO...."THAT GOD POURS OUT upon the Earth."

HUGE DIFFERENCE...Between WHAT GOD Pours out....and What MEN ON EARTH have been doing to Persecute the Faithful!

Why do they say that? Because it is a truth that Christ has taken all our wrath and punishment.

Christ has taken "GODS" PUNISHMENT UPON HIMSELF...MEN upon the Earth SILL "TAKE" mans "punishments" and "persecutions" of "OTHER MEN" !!

They can at least recognize that, so they must pass that promise along to those who come to faith in that time.

I think "THEY" (whom you have labeled, and are discussing); DO recognize the Difference Between WHAT MEN "dole" out UPON MEN, and WHAT God "doles out UPON UNFAITHFUL MEN, and "THEY" are NOT SUBJECT TO what GOD SHALL "dole out" UPON; UNFAITHFUL MEN.

Continued to page 3

 

[Taken]

Naomi25 said;

The problem for them is: if God spares the Tribulation Saints from his plagues and such, why the need for the Rapture?

WHAT "SAINTS" are SPARED? WHO ARE "THEY"? WHERE are "THEY"? WHEN are THEY Spared?

Scripture is Clear.
The SPARED "SAINTS" are those 144,000 WHO are "SENT" TO Earth.
Hint, Hint....they are NOT presently VIsible ON EARTH.

THEIR "SAINTHOOD" has NOT YET come to pass, UNTIL THEY "ARE" maked in their forehead WITH GODS NAME.

THEY ARE "SPARED" FROM Gods WRATH, While they are ON EARTH, DURING Gods WRATH, WHILE THEY ARE ministering the Word of God "TO" ISRAEL, "Gods PEOPLE".

ARE YOU A Jew?
ARE YOU OF ANY of the Tribes of ISRAEL?
ARE YOU A SAINT?
ARE YOU Appointed TO Minister The Word of God, Christ Jesus, to the Tribes of ISRAEL?

Are YOU Spiritually ALREADY "SAVED and QUICKENED" unto thee Lord God?

IF SO, WHEN exactly Shall YOUR "sainthood" come INTO Fruition?

While YOU ARE "ON" the earth?
Scripture doesn't say so.

A SAVED and QUICKENED man, (whether or not called a Christian, a Despensationalist, a Messanic Jew, etc.) ...

DOES NOT RECEIVE HIS "Glorified" BODY, UNTIL he "IS" Risen UP to the Lord "IN THE CLOUDS"

So WHY the RAPTURE? Precisely BECAUSE "THEY" ARE PREPARED (ie; Forgiven, crucified with Christ, IN Christ, soul saved, spirit quickened....NOT SUBJECT TO the Lamb's OR Gods WRATH) and Prepared to RECEIVE their GLORIFIED BODY, Because they ALREADY SEALED unto thee Lord God, FOR HIM TO CLAIM THEM, BEFORE WRATH befalls the EARTH.

Were you not INFORMED, Once saved and born again you would be with the Lord?

When He is IN the Clouds, why would you expect to BE ON Earth? He isn't.

If Christians are not spared now from persecution, and won't be 'then'....why the need for the Rapture?

Again...
Persecution is an act of man against man.

Wrath is an act of God against The Earth, and men who REJECT Him and His Word.

It's just this nice little fantasy they've made up all because they don't want to suffer.

No. It a TEACHING of thee Lord God Himself.
Men WILL persecute Men.
God WILL "greatly empower Satan" over the Earth, and many men will follow after Satan.
God will SEND ministers to Gods People, Israel.
God WILL "greatly" cause The Lambs Wrath, and Gods Wrath to come upon the Earth.
The Saved and Born Again are NOT subject to Wrath.

But, here's the problem...as the body of Christ, we need to recognize that when one of us suffers, we all share in it:

If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together. -1 Corinthians 12:26

And so, DO YOU? If a man IN CHRIST suffers, does it AFFECT YOU? Do you mourn with them, comfort them, help them?

Which brings me back to my point: pretending on a fly-away fantasy to avoid a reality

WHAT PRETENSE?

You seem to call others "PRETENDERS" who TRUST the Word of God Applies to THEM.

What REALITY?

Your Reality teaches the saved and born again are SUBJECT TO Gods WRATH, when scripture teaches THE OPPOSITE.

The REALITY the Lord Has an APPOINTED TIME HE SHALL CAUSE and ALLOW those who REJECT HIM to SUFFER HIS WRATH?

The REALITY Scripture Reveals is The Lord Jesus came to CAUSE DIVIDE....and Thee Lord God has an APPOINTED TIME to CAUSE "SEPARATION" of those DIVIDED, UNTO HIM.

that so many of our brothers and sisters are already facing daily is not honoring Christ or the rest of his body.

Seems LIKE you have Dismissed Men IN Christ, as being your brothers IN Christ. When THEY are the ones recognizing the difference between Persecutions among and between MEN, and the Wrath of God to COME, and WHY.

I disagree with Your perspective and teaching and bashing of men who Trust what Scripture says.

Wrath SHALL COME...

Rev 6
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev 16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Those APPOINTED TO SUFFER WRATH; ARE NOT the Saved and Born Again.

John 3
[36] He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Rom.1[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Your teaching is not what scripture says.
Your teaching is teaching MEN who DO believe in the Son, who ARE accounted in the Truth of Righteousness......ARE SUBJECT to Gods WRATH...and No they are not....and I do not agree with your teaching.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Bobby Jo]

You need to study this. ...

You don't even know the meaning of the text which you quote:

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12)​

So "study" this verse, and tell me EXACTLY what the AUTHOR intended to convey, and then we'll talk.


Bobby Jo

 

[Dave L]

You don't even know the meaning of the text which you quote:

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12)​

So "study" this verse, and tell me EXACTLY what the AUTHOR intended to convey, and then we'll talk.


Bobby Jo

The kingdom is here now and the violent persecute Christians for their allegiance to it.

 

[CoreIssue]

Perhaps you could cite an actual HISTORY BOOK, typical of:

Durant, Will, “Story of Civilization: Part I,” Simon and Schuster, NY, 1954, pp. 557-558​

I believe ROME perished about 600 AD, and another (Italy) occupies that ancient geography. And as your posted image CORRECTLY reflects, the FEET represent the FIFTH "divided kingdom", -- for which we coincidentally have THREE Superpowers, and a United Nations with a FUTURE Ten Member Permanent Security Council.


Nah, Scripture should NEVER agree with History ...
Bobby Jo

Your problem is the Bible and history do agree.

When he was asked who should succeed him, Alexander said, “The strongest”, which answer led to his empire being divided between four of his generals: Cassander, Ptolemy, Antigonus, and Seleucus (known as The Diadochi or `successors').

Alexander the Great

Disputes in Civil War resulted, that does not change the fact these four were his appointed.

Daniel 7
6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.

Four is clearly stated.

Constantine enacted another change that helped accelerate the fall of the Roman Empire. In 330 C.E., he split the empire into two parts: the western half centered in Rome and the eastern half centered in Constantinople, a city he named after himself.
The Fall of the Roman Empire [ushistory.org]

You are not a student of history and a pretty poor student of the Bible.

 

[CoreIssue]

The tactic of a person who knows that he cannot show his biblical sources.

For me, let me begin by reference the following: -

Jeremiah 50:35-40: -

35 "A sword is against the Chaldeans," says the Lord,
"Against the inhabitants of Babylon,
And against her princes and her wise men.
36 A sword is against the soothsayers, and they will be fools.
A sword is against her mighty men, and they will be dismayed.
37 A sword is against their horses,
Against their chariots,
And against all the mixed peoples who are in her midst;
And they will become like women.
A sword is against her treasures, and they will be robbed.
38 A drought is against her waters, and they will be dried up.
For it is the land of carved images,
And they are insane with their idols.
39 "Therefore the wild desert beasts shall dwell there with the jackals,
And the ostriches shall dwell in it.
It shall be inhabited no more for a very long period of time which is outside of our understanding,
Nor shall it be dwelt in for an age/generation plus another age/generation,
i.e. for two ages = around 2000 + years.
40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah
And their neighbors," says the Lord,
"So no one shall reside there,
Nor son of man dwell in it.
​

And then followed by Revelation 16:17-21 which is referencing the period of time around and after WW1 when after two ages Babylon is remember once more before the Lord when it is re-established as a nation in 1926.
​

Revelation 16:17-21: - Seventh Bowl: The Earth Utterly Shaken

17 Then the seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and a loud voice came out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 And there were noises and thunderings and lightnings; and there was a great turmoil, such a mighty and great turmoil as had not occurred since men were on the earth. 19 Now the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell. And great Babylon was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of His wrath. 20 Then every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21 And great hail from heaven fell upon men, each hailstone about the weight of a talent. Men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail, since that plague was exceedingly great. ​

and finally

Jeremiah 50:41-46: -

41 "Behold, a people shall come from the north,
And a great nation and many kings
Shall be raised up from the ends of the earth. (i.e. the Coalition of the Willing.)
42 They shall hold the bow and the lance;
They are cruel and shall not show mercy.
Their voice shall roar like the sea;
They shall ride on horses,
Set in array, like a man for the battle,
Against you, O daughter of Babylon.
43 "The king of Babylon has heard the report about them,
And his hands grow feeble;
Anguish has taken hold of him,
Pangs as of a woman in childbirth.
44 "Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the floodplain of the Jordan
Against the dwelling place of the strong;
But I will make them suddenly run away from her.
And who is a chosen man that I may appoint over her?
For who is like Me?
Who will arraign Me?
And who is that shepherd
Who will withstand Me?"
45 Therefore hear the counsel of the Lord that He has taken against Babylon,
And His purposes that He has proposed against the land of the Chaldeans:
Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out;
Surely He will make their dwelling place desolate with them.
46 At the noise of the taking of Babylon
The earth trembles,
And the cry is heard among the nations.​

Plus which tells us what is going to happen the nations that make up the Coalition of the Willing.

Jeremiah 51:9-19

9 We would have healed Babylon,
But she is not healed.
Forsake her, and let us go everyone to his own country;
For her judgment reaches to heaven and is lifted up to the skies.
10 The Lord has revealed our righteousness.
Come and let us declare in Zion the work of the Lord our God.
11 Make the arrows bright!
Gather the shields!
The Lord has raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes.
For His plan is against Babylon to destroy it,
Because it is the vengeance of the Lord,
The vengeance for His temple.
12 Set up the standard on the walls of Babylon;
Make the guard strong,
Set up the watchmen,
Prepare the ambushes.
For the Lord has both devised and done
What He spoke against the inhabitants of Babylon.
13 O you who dwell by many waters,
Abundant in treasures,
Your end has come,
The measure of your covetousness.
14 The Lord of hosts has sworn by Himself:
"Surely I will fill you with men, as with locusts,
And they shall lift up a shout against you."

15 He has made the earth by His power;
He has established the world by His wisdom,
And stretched out the heaven by His understanding.
16 When He utters His voice —
There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
"He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
He makes lightnings for the rain;
He brings the wind out of His treasuries."
17 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge;
Every metalsmith is put to shame by the carved image;
For his molded image is falsehood,
And there is no breath in them.
18 They are futile, a work of errors;
In the time of their punishment they shall perish.
19 The Portion of Jacob is not like them,
For He is the Maker of all things;
And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance.
The Lord of hosts is His name.
​

I rest my scriptural basis that support my views.

Now it is your turn to provide the scriptural support for your POV.

5. The Rise And Fall Of Babylon | Bible.org

 

[Bobby Jo]

The kingdom is here now and the violent persecute Christians for their allegiance to it.

Matt. 11:12 From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven has suffered violence, and men of violence take it by force.​

You have no clue. -- The verse, if better rendered should read: The kingdom of heaven is obtain by pursuit, and pursuers take it by ardent action.



But you have your own agenda, so please be content with the results ...
Bobby Jo