Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

Stranger · Feb 12, 2018

BreadOfLife said:
Wrong.
Saul was cut-off by God. God refused to have contact with him as we read in verse 8.

For Samuel to have contact with Saul, it would be ONLY by the power of God that Samuel could have contact with anybody.

I believe you are referring to (28:6).

(1Samuel 28:15,16,20) are clear. Samuel is the one who was raised up and speaking.

Exactly, it is only the power of God that raised up Samuel. Yet He did it at the request of the witch of En-dor.

So, just like with Judas, if Judas did indeed cast out demons or healed anyone, it was only through the power Jesus delegated to the 12.

Stranger

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

Taken said:
Not sure what that means.
However kids should be taught to obey authority.

so, kids should be taught to give up their constitutional rights, but believers do not have to obey the Ten Commandments? Or just one of the Ten, or what?

got it; i guess

GodsGrace · Feb 12, 2018

Stranger said:
The same reason He chose one who is a devil. It was meant to be. It was part of the plan of God. It was already foretold. (Ps. 109:6-8) (Acts 1:20)

I think you are walking a precarious line when you say Jesus did not know everything as a man. The only knowledge He would not know would be something witheld from the Father to the Son. And the Scriptures already spoke of it. He was not just a man but God the Son also. He was One Person, One Mind, One thought, the God/Man. He didn't have a switch to turn on or off where at times He was the Man, and at times He was God. So He certainly would know who Judas was when He chose Him and when He sent out the twelve.

As far as 'logic', our logic and God often clash.

Stranger

Sometimes logic is good.
It makes no sense for Jesus to send a devil out to preach to unbelievers and try to get them converted.
A house against itself will not stand.
Mark 3:24-25

Also, Jesus did not know everything when He was a human. Only what the Father wanted Him to know.
If Mathew 24:36 states that only the Father knew when the end would come and NOT even the Son, how can you be so sure that this did not also apply to other facts? The bible is silent on this, we cannot know for sure but since Jesus did not know the end times while on earth, it is reasonable to believe He did not know everything the Father did.

As to Judas. There is a difference of opinion.
If you checked out the timing of the different verses about judas, you would find that he became to be known as a devil. A timeline is needed.
I had done this about a year ago. If I can find it, I'll post it...

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

Taken said:
I think I see what you are saying...more like your child is under your direction, even when that direction conflicts with other authorities?

I agree with that to a point.
I taught my children to obey police officers, but then also taught them some other things that go along with that...such as;
To ask for identification; how to recognize legit. Id, and uniform; immediately ask for a parent to be summoned; if ever held, to answer no questions, or give a made up scenario, even if asked to, to not draw pictures, and repeatedly ask for a parent and if they can leave....that type of stuff.

As far as teachers; the same, to do as they say, and if uncomfortable or think it wrong; immediately aks for a pass to leave the room, and go to the office and call me.
And always prior as the school year would begin, I always met with every teacher my children were assigned to and personally gave them my own "they can not whatever", and then asked if "they" had any issue with that, now was the time to object.

It is simply teaching kids to understand what authority is, that they respect who has authority over them at any given time

ah, there it is, that last part, yes. Just bc i am in Maine does not mean that a cop from Maine has any right whatsoever to even address me, see, without probable cause, etc. Unless i am in a police station or courthouse, maybe?

or sure, a school; but then i would never let my kid walk into a school

GodsGrace · Feb 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
you know what things that you have to do are called, right

and the Good Samaritan, what about him?

Yes. I certainly know what they are called.
Such a bad word these days.

As for the Samaritan --- Did Jesus mean only to teach us that even the Samaritans were better than those priests and pharisees that talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. Jesus not only expects us to talk and witness, we are also to DO what we say and follow the Master.

Taken · Feb 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
i just don't see God refusing to have contact with Saul in that passage, although i guess the concept could be established in other places, at least after the perspective has been repaired, as i doubt God refuses to have contact with anyone; it would be Saul, refusing iow.

1 Samuel 28:6

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

GodsGrace said:
If Mathew 24:36 states that only the Father knew when the end would come and NOT even the Son, how can you be so sure that this did not also apply to other facts? The bible is silent on this, we cannot know for sure but since Jesus did not know the end times while on earth, it is reasonable to believe He did not know everything the Father did.

or, there is another way to read the passage, that makes sense

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

GodsGrace said:
Yes. I certainly know what they are called.
Such a bad word these days.

ha well i guess the PTB have to keep it confused, see, otherwise we will figure out that it is "no rulers," and not "no rules" that we need, as per 1Sam8

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

GodsGrace said:
As for the Samaritan --- Did Jesus mean only to teach us that even the Samaritans were better than those priests and pharisees that talked the talk but didn't walk the walk. Jesus not only expects us to talk and witness, we are also to DO what we say and follow the Master.

imo the talking is optional, and the witnessing is obviously and baldly misinterpreted anyway! boldly? ya, that too

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

Taken said:
1 Samuel 28:6

God Bless,
Taken

Once Saved....always Saved - Results of Questionnaire.

seems like forcing an interp to me, anyway--actually seems like two different subjects

Taken · Feb 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
ah, there it is, that last part, yes. Just bc i am in Maine does not mean that a cop from Maine has any right whatsoever to even address me, see, without probable cause, etc. Unless i am in a police station or courthouse, maybe?

Police Officers do have the authority to ask you what they want. You also have the authority to keep your mouth shut.

Police Officers do have the authority to detain you, even take you to the station. Again you have the authority to keep your mouth open far enough to continue to ask if you are free to leave.

or sure, a school; but then i would never let my kid walk into a school

We all do what is necessary at any given time. Your options to keep your kid from schools, is much more optimal these days, and kudos to you...as long as you are providing him with an education.

God Bless,
Taken

Taken · Feb 12, 2018

GodsGrace said:
You don't think our faith is a faith of reason?
Maybe you don't know what I mean.

What do you base YOUR faith on?
Did Jesus come to you in person one day?
Did you hear someone say something nice about Christianity?
You heard the word and believed it?
OK.
BUT,
how do you know it's all true??

I know what you mean, you said it.
Logic of what makes sense.

I already told you.
My choice is hear, and trust to believe what I hear.
My choice is to Call on the Lord and Tell Him, I believe in my heart in Him.

How do I know it is True?
Already told you, I made the choice to Trust to Believe the Lord is True and Faithful.

You ask me questions that have already been answered you.

I asked you, at what age you first believed, and at what age you were saved.

Can you answer?

God Bless,
Taken

bbyrd009 · Feb 12, 2018

Taken said:
Police Officers do have the authority to detain you, even take you to the station.

after they have demonstrated PC, sure; but not until then

Taken · Feb 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
ha, the struggle is real, huh? lol

bold works too, i guess. in html anyway, dunno about bb code

edit; yup, guess that works too! but you couldn't see it lol--i did a [ B ] bold [/ B ] there, sans spaces

I didn't say it was a struggle, more like a WOT piddling back and forth. It is already inconvenient to use a phone for lengthy writing. Just saying ~ I am utilizing my time doing things in a manner optimal for me.

If you would like to come over, I just talk and you can do the typing and adding a flare to the words. Lol

God Bless,
Taken

Stranger · Feb 12, 2018

GodsGrace said:
Sometimes logic is good.
It makes no sense for Jesus to send a devil out to preach to unbelievers and try to get them converted.
A house against itself will not stand.
Mark 3:24-25

Also, Jesus did not know everything when He was a human. Only what the Father wanted Him to know.
If Mathew 24:36 states that only the Father knew when the end would come and NOT even the Son, how can you be so sure that this did not also apply to other facts? The bible is silent on this, we cannot know for sure but since Jesus did not know the end times while on earth, it is reasonable to believe He did not know everything the Father did.

As to Judas. There is a difference of opinion.
If you checked out the timing of the different verses about judas, you would find that he became to be known as a devil. A timeline is needed.
I had done this about a year ago. If I can find it, I'll post it...

The house is not against itself as it is the power of God given by Jesus to the twelve. If Judas did cast out demons or heal the sick, it was only through the power of God given the 12.

Jesus still is a human. Jesus knew the Scriptures. Which means He knew of Judas. Jesus said one of you is a devil at the time of Peters confession.

Jesus did know the end times while on earth. At that time He didn't know the exact day or hour.

So, what exactly are you saying? Are you saying Jesus did not know but God the Father knew who Judas was? How would that fit in your 'logic'.

Stranger

Taken · Feb 12, 2018

[

bbyrd009 said:
seems like forcing an interp to me, anyway--actually seems like two different subjects

Incomplete and moot.

God Bless,
Taken

GodsGrace · Feb 12, 2018

Stranger said:
The house is not against itself as it is the power of God given by Jesus to the twelve. If Judas did cast out demons or heal the sick, it was only through the power of God given the 12.

Jesus still is a human. Jesus knew the Scriptures. Which means He knew of Judas. Jesus said one of you is a devil at the time of Peters confession.

Jesus did know the end times while on earth. At that time He didn't know the exact day or hour.

So, what exactly are you saying? Are you saying Jesus did not know but God the Father knew who Judas was? How would that fit in your 'logic'.

Stranger

You yourself said that Judas HAD to betray Jesus in order to fulfill scripture. That would be how I reconcile my idea.

Anyway, it's not my idea.

(6) John 17 contains the prayer uttered by the Lord en route to Gethsemane. The prayer falls into three sections: (a) a petition for himself (vv. 1-8), (b) prayer for his disciples (vv. 9-19), (c) prayer for the future church (vv. 20-26). We focus momentarily on the petition for his immediate disciples.

While the prayer obviously was on behalf of the eleven remaining apostles, reference is made nonetheless to the original twelve. It therefore is not correct to contend that the language of the Lord has no relevance to Judas; it certainly did.

Note these crucial points, beginning with verse six: (a) Christ “manifested” (aorist tense, relating to a past situation, i.e., his ministry period) himself unto the men God gave him “out of the world” (v. 6). They belonged to God and were given to the Son. That included Judas. (b) Jesus conveyed the words of God unto these men and they “received them” (v. 8a). (c) They “believed” the Son was sent from the Father (v. 8b).

Of the twelve, the Lord subsequently said: “While I was with them, I kept them in your name, which you have given me. I have guarded them, and not one of them has been lost, except the son of destruction” (v. 12, ESV). Focus on the term “except” in the last phrase. It translates the Greek ei me. Baptist scholar A. T. Robertson stated that “this phrase marks an exception,” and he cites this passage (1919, 1188). In his commentary, Word Pictures in the New Testament, he says Judas was a “sad and terrible exception” (1932, 278). This constitutes positive proof that “the men” of verses six through eight embraced the full complement of the twelve. Jesus “lost” Judas. The traitor’s lostness resulted from his wrong choices, and he “fell away” (Acts 1:17, 25).

Source: Judas Iscariot: From Apostle to Apostate

GodsGrace · Feb 12, 2018

bbyrd009 said:
imo the talking is optional, and the witnessing is obviously and baldly misinterpreted anyway! boldly? ya, that too

Which witnessing do you mean?
Ours?
I think Jesus is always talking to us...

GodsGrace · Feb 12, 2018

Taken said:
I know what you mean, you said it.
Logic of what makes sense.

I already told you.
My choice is hear, and trust to believe what I hear.
My choice is to Call on the Lord and Tell Him, I believe in my heart in Him.

How do I know it is True?
Already told you, I made the choice to Trust to Believe the Lord is True and Faithful.

You ask me questions that have already been answered you.

I asked you, at what age you first believed, and at what age you were saved.

Can you answer?

God Bless,
Taken

I first believed and was saved together.
About 28.

Would you like to know why I trust my faith?
Jesus came to me in a real way. But then many years pass and one might doubt. I don't doubt because I know upon what I place my trust.

It can't be Jesus since we know him by His first appearance. How do we know we truly have the Holy Spirit?

It must be based on reason.
Seems like you don't have one.
This is one of the first things learned in theology...

Helen · Feb 12, 2018

I'm all behind in this thread...so these quotes are from a couple of pages back!

bbyrd009 said:
nice! seems weird that God would be responsible for putting an authority in place, and that the same authority might not be "inline with the Word," but there it is. Might give one pause at being considered "chosen" maybe though, huh lol

That's what we have here in Canada!

I hated that he got in..but I had to come to the place of believing that if God was in it, then it is time for it... Kinda like God has given man over to the desire of their own heart...they have thrown Him our of schools, thrown Him out of everything...so it's like God has said to Canada...okay..have at it!!
Enjoy your country without Me.
And we can remember because Israel turned away from God and would not listen to His prophets ...He sent then into captivity under Nebuchaneza. ( can't spell it but you know who I mean.)

bbyrd009 said:
not that any of this has the least little thing to do with Saul raising Samuel through the Witch, anyway, i mean, where is God in that equation?

I believe it was God who released Samuel to come to Saul..Samuel would have never obeyed the witches call!! And they were quite shocked it seems.

On another note...I saw you showing taken where the Bold, etc was ..you once showed me where the "strike through" was located.
Can you run that by me again...I still can't find it! Thanks.

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